Some questions about CKD, ECA, BCAAs
09-03-2009 07:37 PM
Some questions about CKD, ECA, BCAAs
Well I've been doing a Ketosis diet to lose weight, and taking ECA. So far I've lost a decent amount of fat, but also some lean body mass. My questions are:
1) I was thinking of taking BCAAs before my fasted morning cardio and before my workout later in the day. There's been debate over 4:1:1 or 2:1:1 (Leucine:Isoleucine:Valine). Is this difference a deal breaker, or will I just be fine taking 2:1:1? For that matter, what is a good recommended dose? I'd imagine something like 10:5:5 (or in the case of 4:1:1, 20:5:5) would be good, but I'm unsure. Also if anyone has any other times they prefer to take them feel free to list them.
2) I've read lots of conflicting information about calorie composition. Some have said exactly enough calories from protein to get 1g protein:1lbs LBM, then the rest from fats (for instance, someone with 160lbs LBM should only take 640 calories from protein etc etc), meanwhile there are others saying 70% protein/30% fats. Which is correct here?
3) I planned on doing an ECA cycle of 1/2/2/3/3/3/2/1 with each slash separating in to a new week, each number indicating doses (25mg E, 200mg C, 81mg A taken every other day). I've read in some topics where people up their doses every 3-5 days, making much shorter cycles. Is this just one of those "let your body decide/tell you" things, or is there something I need to know?
4) One post I read mentioned keeping your receptors clean, and not to cycle on for longer than a month, yet plenty of other posts had people doing cycles for several months at a time. The same post in the former part of the first sentence mentioned taking 1 Benadryl at night to keep them clean. Should I do this if I am doing a 2 month cycle, or should I just not do a 2 month cycle at all? Alternatively, is the 1 Benadryl/night thing just a good practice to do no matter the cycle length?
5) Refeed days. I was planning on doing one every week. Is there anything especially important to know here, other than to eat plenty of carbs? One post I read said "What has been recommended by other authors of the CKD is 10-12 grams of carbs per kilogram of lean mass. Our example had 160 pounds of lean mass, so divide that by the conversion factor of 2.2, and we get roughly 73 kg." Is this a good measurement to go by, or does anyone have a different one?
6) I'm doing a 4 day on, 1 day off workout cycle (morning cardio only on on days). Chest/tri, back/bi, legs/abs, shoulders/traps. Too much? Curious to see what some of you other guys did. One thing I can see this being a problem with is my refeed days. Would working out on a refeed day be ok? I would think a refeed every 5 days would be too much, but every 10 would be not enough.
If I can think of any more questions I'll add them. Thanks for any of the help, and sorry if I'm asking stupidly obvious questions. I don't mind doing the research, but in the fitness world, some information changes so often it is hard to get a consistent report from each source while still maintaining an informed stance...and don't even get me started on the "new research shows that maybe perhaps it kinda does this/is better than X" posts. x_x
09-04-2009 01:35 PM
Definitely get some BCAA's. I don't know specifics about totals for that. I use Xtend. I take 2 scoops w/ 2scoops vasocharge preworkout. Then have 3 scoops in 32oz water during workout. Definitely good to have.
Macro ratios are 70% fat and 30% protein. So you are right. 160g protein and the rest fat, depending on your calorie requirements.
I would maybe do a 2 day, day off, 2 day on, 2 days off. Lift M,Tues, Thurs, Fri. Off wed, sat and sun. Keep your bodyparts split like you have. Do 20 min HIIT cardio after lifting and some cardio on off days. Carb up an rest completely on saturday.
Carb day can be tricky. Do first 2 weeks without it and do first carb day on second weekend. You have to do it a few times to figure out how YOUR body reacts. Get some glycobol or p-slin to use on carb days. Me personally, anything north of 4-500g of carbs and I start to feel like crap.
You can search some of my posts about peoples reactions to their first carb day. You will gain a couple pounds of water weight when you reintroduce carbs. If you gain more than 4-5 lbs, you might have gone a bit overboard on total cals for refeed day. You should have more than maintenance cals on that day since the rest of the week will be below maintenance. The less sugar on carb day, the better I feel. Eat clean carbs, keep sugar low and fat low. Keep protein the same.
Hope this helps, others can chime in about the specifics on your ECA questions.
09-04-2009 02:41 PM
4-5 pounds is about 450g carbs on refeed,
carbs x 4 = calories divide by 16 then divide by 28. = amount gained.
i ate 917g carbs on my refeed and gained 8 pounds, with my formula it comes out to 8.1 pounds.
hasnt failed me yet.
09-04-2009 10:44 PM
Interesting. I have never heard or seen this formula before. Is this just based on your experience or something proven? I will try it out tomorrow if I can keep my carbs from sources that I prepare.
Originally Posted by crazyfool405
09-04-2009 11:34 PM
Its proven time and again with me and my buddies and a few people I've worked with outside of the forum. Try it out man ull be very surprised.
09-04-2009 11:36 PM
09-05-2009 01:48 AM
Thanks for the responses so far guys, still figuring this all out one step at a time.
Hmm alright, I'll give that a shot this week (how did you know my Wednesday is an awkward day to fit in a workout? ). So do not do morning cardio on on days, cardio post workout those days, then on W/Su do some fasted morning cardio? Sounds good, although in another thread (I can't link yet, topic title is "cardio after weight training?" in the Weight Loss forum here if you wish to check), one member suggested a sustained low intensity cardio (heart rate at ~120bpm for 20-30 minutes) instead of HIIT. I've seen the two debated fairly consistently and it's seeming to be more and more of a personal preference/what your body can handle better sort of thing. Any particular reason to do one over the other? I'll give them both a shot if it's just a personal preference thing and decide for myself, but I don't want to be doing something that is adverse to a cutting cycle.
Originally Posted by youngandfree
The only thing I don't like about PWO cardio is that I think it would "cheapen" my leg day. I know the legs are very strong muscles and I don't know if 20-30 minutes of cardio after a workout would really be overtraining them considering how much work they do all day, every day, but again, I don't want to be doing anything that could make me lose more muscle than I should. I'm sure I'm just being overly worried about this though, so whoever wants to slap me and tell me it's fine, here's your cue.
Edit/Followup: After doing some reading, I found a study (albeit done in 2006...) that concluded that HIIT is "superior to lower intensities on the whole for maintaining and/or increasing cardiovascular fitness & lean mass, and are at least as effective, and according to some research, far better at reducing bodyfat." Not to mention the topics on this board, "Help on Weightloss HIIT vs LISS" under Weight Loss, and "Cardio and fat loss" under Exercise Science. Great reads for anyone who is looking for some information on cardio. I think I'm going to do the 20 minute HIIT sessions after workouts, and 45-60 minute LISS fasted morning cardio sessions on Wednesday/Sunday. Thanks again for the help so far.
Followup2 (I'm bad at this): So I did a light workout today (I had an off day on Friday, didn't want to have 3 days off in a row as I transition in to the MT / TrF schedule) and did some HIIT afterwards. The HIIT itself was great and I definitely felt like I was getting some good cardio in, but afterwards I had pretty much completely lost the pump from my workout, aside from my calf muscles feeling like they were about to burst out of my skin. Is this normal?
09-06-2009 12:09 AM
Don't worry too much about cardio after leg training. I will stumble to the recumbant bike and spin the pedals for about 10 minutes to get blood flow going a little more, nothing crazy. I then go stretch my legs out for about 10 minutes. I have found the key is to stretch them out good and stretch them the next day before they lock up on you. Otherwise you won"t be doing cardio for 2-3 days. And don't worry too much about "losing the pump after your workout". You will be fine.
09-06-2009 01:16 AM
Long term it seems HIIT is better
You can search for the research done
also another interesting figure i saw this research where it said the more you improve your vo2 max the better it relates to waist loss.
09-06-2009 01:38 AM
I find it important to incorperate gdas during and the day after carb ups to minimize gluconeogenisis. AP and gbol does this as well as yellowgold
09-06-2009 08:43 AM
Hey crazyfool, yesterday I ate 405g carbs, 180g protein, and 48g fat totaling almost 3000 cals. Your formula equaled 3.616 and my digital scale showed 4lbs exactly gained. Thanks for that info, of all the stuff I have read on CKD, I have never heard this. Did you find this formula somewhere or how did you come across it?
Originally Posted by crazyfool405
09-06-2009 12:23 PM
Thanks for all the help, I think that just about answers all the questions I had (I decided on a shorter ECA cycle after reading up on it more). Looking at SciVation's Xtend, they recommend getting in 6 doses between your pre-workout and during your workout (3 pre, 3 during, or something similar), and then one after. That comes out to about 10.5:5.4:5.4 for the pre/during combination, and 3.5:1.8:1.8 after. This is about what I'm going to be aiming for in my doses...except I bought ON's BCAA powder which has 2.5:1.25:1.25 per serving, so my pre+during will be 10:5:5, and my post will be 2.5:1.25:1.25. Someone stop me if I'm wrong, but otherwise I think that's it. Again, thanks for all the answers, can't wait to get back in the gym this week to try out two doses of ECA.
10-13-2013 11:18 AM
Enhanced Body Formulations
Bumping this formula
Originally Posted by crazyfool405
Enhanced Body Formulations Product Educator
10-19-2013 09:49 AM
Crazy formula, never heard of it before. My formula is easy caloric deficit + Dexaprine XR + ephedrine = win.
iForce Nutrition Anabolic Minions Member
10-21-2013 08:38 AM
get that diet in check and try adding Dexaprine-XR and TT33 to your supplement regime! you will have some great results
iForce Nutrition Anabolics Minion Member
iTrain. iCompete. iDominate
iForce Nutrition -www.iForceNutrition.com
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