Better Whey to Drink Your Protein

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    Better Whey to Drink Your Protein


    So I have been reading about the differences between Whey and Cassein proteins. Seems like Whey absorbs quickly, whereas Cassein is naturally time-release. Although Whey is more popular, I have read some articles suggesting that Cassein is actually better because the slower absorption allows for a more positive and sustained amino balance. The quick spike of aminos produced by Whey may be counterproductive, and most of the protein gets burned for energy instead of used for muscle.

    So my questions is this: Can you overcome this limitation of Whey protein by simply drinking your protein shake slowly over many hours? Instead of chugging 40g Whey every three hours, couldn't you sip on the same Whey shake (drinking 5-10g every half hour) to simulate the "time release" provided by Casein? Would this mimic the effect of Cassein, promoting a more positive amino balance and preventing the protein from being burned for energy?

    Anybody have any opinion on if drinking a slow, steady supply of Whey constantly is better than drinking 25-40g at one time?

    Thanks,
    Savagery

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    I also like taking down a tablespoon (or teaspoon if you'll be doing it 3-4 times a day) with my shake, the fats help slow digestion. I don't like the idea of "sipping" a milk-based drink that's been left at room temp for hours.

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    A tablespoon of what? I think you may have left out a word there.

    I definitely agree that you don't want to drink milk that has been left out all day... but what about if you mix the drink with water? I don't think the protein itself would go bad.

    Other than the milk objection, what do you think of the general idea? Would sipping Whey be a more efficient method than consuming it in 25-40g shakes?
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    I think Manbeast simply meant tablespoons of a good, healthy fat source i.e. flax oil, olive oil, nat PB, etc.
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    The logic seems justified, but why not just mix up your daily intake with both whey and cassiene?
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    what I meant by that was alternating whey protein and cassiene throughout the day to maximize absorption.
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    Quote Originally Posted by savagery
    A tablespoon of what? I think you may have left out a word there.

    I definitely agree that you don't want to drink milk that has been left out all day... but what about if you mix the drink with water? I don't think the protein itself would go bad.

    Other than the milk objection, what do you think of the general idea? Would sipping Whey be a more efficient method than consuming it in 25-40g shakes?
    I don't know, my pwo bottle smells pretty funky after a few hours. Why not just spring for the casein or at least some cheese? I don't see much sense in trying to sip your shake over an extended period of time, especially if your diet is right and you're eating every few hours. I guess you could do it if you wanted to give it a shot. I just don't see the sense in it though.
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    WHOOPS!! brain fart.... flax seed oil was what I was going to reccomend. Next time I'll start the brain before engaging the fingers.

    ManBeast
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    *I am not a medical expert, my opinions are not professional, and I strongly suggest doing research of your own.*
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    I believe you will absorb the same amount percentage wise (of whey protein) if you drink 50g in one setting, or 50g over a couple of hours. If you slam down the 50g shake in one setting, you will abosorb approximately 35% of the protein. If you "sip" it over a couple of hours, you will still only abosorb approximately 35% of each "sip". However, I may be wrong on this as I have no proof to post. Also, excuse me if the 35% absorption rate is off. I was only using this as an example.

    The important thing to remember is, the protein drink is best if consumed soon after working out, where you will get the best rate of absorption. Your "window of opportunity" if you may. You want to get most of your daily protein from whole foods ie: chicken/fish/tuna/beef/etc. I know this can be difficult in a lot of cases, and that is why a lot of people, including myself, will drink an extra shake or two during the day. I believe it's better to get the low absorption percentage of the whey protein in me rather than no protein at all.
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    True, but I'm not talking about absorption, I'm talking about what happens after absorption. The Whey is absorbed rapidly and produces a dramatic, short-lived spike in amino levels, which causes most of the aminos to be burned for energy and only a small portion to be used for anabolism (the amount of aminos that can be taken into the muscle is limited). Thus, even though the absorption is efficient, the utilization is poor. By sipping the shake over a few hours, you avoid this spike and allow a much higher percentage of of the aminos to be utilized for anabolism. Or at least that is my theory. Hopefully that is more clear. Does anybody have any opinion on if this is true?



    Quote Originally Posted by Cuffs
    I believe you will absorb the same amount percentage wise (of whey protein) if you drink 50g in one setting, or 50g over a couple of hours. If you slam down the 50g shake in one setting, you will abosorb approximately 35% of the protein. If you "sip" it over a couple of hours, you will still only abosorb approximately 35% of each "sip". However, I may be wrong on this as I have no proof to post. Also, excuse me if the 35% absorption rate is off. I was only using this as an example.

    The important thing to remember is, the protein drink is best if consumed soon after working out, where you will get the best rate of absorption. Your "window of opportunity" if you may. You want to get most of your daily protein from whole foods ie: chicken/fish/tuna/beef/etc. I know this can be difficult in a lot of cases, and that is why a lot of people, including myself, will drink an extra shake or two during the day. I believe it's better to get the low absorption percentage of the whey protein in me rather than no protein at all.
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    I have read studies testing your theory, and they disproved it.
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    or you could get designer whey, thier protein is supposedly time released all though I dont know how true that is
    interesting concept though
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    Yes, an advanced whey formula like Isomatrix Reloaded (Syntrax) has a combination of proteins that should absorb better and you can drink it as you wish.
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    are there any isomatrix-like alternatives that don't contain aspartame?
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    What I think is you should use Whey Protein as a staple supplement, but nothing beats old good ole food, reserve the cassein for the night and just keep drinking protein , the body builds muscle when you are in a positive nitrogen balance and the amino acid pool is full, no need to go so scientific on that. Btw Manbeast is absolutely correct, flaxseed oil is not only an EFA , it helps to slow down digestion.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ke0ki
    are there any isomatrix-like alternatives that don't contain aspartame?
    Optimum's ProComplex is Whey and Egg (no casein or soy though), and doesn't contain aspartame.

    I do custom blends at proteincustomizer.com. I'm too lazy to type out my custom blends again so if you're interested in more info you can do a search under my name.

    ~Todd
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaulJimenez
    Btw Manbeast is absolutely correct, flaxseed oil is not only an EFA , it helps to slow down digestion.
    Can you show me where you found this information? All the reasearch I have done on this subject shows the an oil may slow down digestion (in a shake the oil and protein will seperate unlike in a whole food source). The best thing I have heard of is to take fiber with your shake to slow down digestion or just use a good cas protein.
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    you want a fast absorbing protein after your workout because it causes a large insulin spike which helps shuttle the BCAAs into the muscle for repair, other times during the day (morning and night esp), mix your whey with casein or egg to diversify your protein intake if it'll be more than around 3 hours until you down your next shake (to stall catabolism) and of course eat as much lean/clean protein as poss. from real food
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    one of those is a study that show protien release in a 2 human subjects. You read it and you decided. It compairs CAS and WHEY in both an young and old person. The other one was a good read about whole food vs. shakes.

    http://www.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/132/10/3228S

    http://www.femalemuscle.com/library/weekly/aa101399.htm
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    how about this, the faster the aminos get into the blood, the greater the insulin response and we all know how anabolic slin is, so therefore, use a whey protein containing peptide hydrolysates and dextrose for the most anabolic environment possible pwo

    here's the study (in case the link doesnt work):
    Plasma Glucagon and Insulin Responses Depend on the Rate of Appearance of Amino Acids after Ingestion of Different Protein Solutions in Humans1 ,2
    Jose A. L. Calbet3 and Dave A. MacLean4

    Copenhagen Muscle Research Center, Rigshospitalet, Section 7652, Blegdamsvej 9, 2100 Copenhagen, Denmark

    http://www.nutrition.org/cgi/content...code=nutrition
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    That was a good read also. I think that it helps to explain why we need PW shakes with malto/dex. I like a nice CAS/WHEY shake during the through out the day.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FTMGuy
    Can you show me where you found this information? All the reasearch I have done on this subject shows the an oil may slow down digestion (in a shake the oil and protein will seperate unlike in a whole food source). The best thing I have heard of is to take fiber with your shake to slow down digestion or just use a good cas protein.
    Any diabetic can tell you that. Works even better with carbs. Fats will slow (not necessarily reduce) absorption of food. For instance I love mashed potatoes and dressing but the starch kills my blood sugar. To avoid the hyperglycemia I will hit the potatoes with a good helping of regular sour cream and the dressing with gravy. (I like my holiday meals so I plan ahead ) This makes a huge difference in my spike.

    At any rate if you want a protein source that will last all night eat some chicken or steak before bed. JMO
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skye
    Any diabetic can tell you that. Works even better with carbs. Fats will slow (not necessarily reduce) absorption of food. For instance I love mashed potatoes and dressing but the starch kills my blood sugar. To avoid the hyperglycemia I will hit the potatoes with a good helping of regular sour cream and the dressing with gravy. (I like my holiday meals so I plan ahead ) This makes a huge difference in my spike.

    At any rate if you want a protein source that will last all night eat some chicken or steak before bed. JMO
    I have seen to info on carbs but no info showing this to be true with proteins. I wanted to see a study with the effect of whey protein with oil to see if it slows down the absorption.
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    Simple: use two whey products!

    I do it, real simple if you got the extra loot.. I use a blend for a between meal shake (Muscle Milk, or Isomatrix/Reloaded), and PWO I use straight whey isolate (ATW) with dextrose..

    Whey absorbs the same whether you drink it all at once, or sip on it for a week..
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    ok, some basic biochem here, the body can make sugar from protein in a process called gluconeogenesis, so protein alone must stimulate an insulin response to refuel glycogen after exercise and to shuttle the AAs into the muscle for repair

    re-read the study I posted here:
    http://www.nutrition.org/cgi/content...code=nutrition

    "Despite the higher carbohydrate content of the MS (milk solution), the peptide hydrolysates elicited a peak insulin response that was two and four times greater than that evoked by the MS and glucose solutions, respectively (P < 0.05). "
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    actually all foods cause somewhat of an insulin response proteins are just very low
    also protein does stimulate the liver to release glucagon which raises blood sugar levels

    http://www.vivo.colostate.edu/hbooks.../glucagon.html

    Elevated blood levels of amino acids, as would be seen after consumption of a protein-rich meal: In this situation, glucagon would foster conversion of excess amino acids to glucose by enhancing gluconeogenesis. Since high blood levels of amino acids also stimulate insulin release, this would be a situation in which both insulin and glucagon are active.
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    that would get me nauseous, having a task to always be drinking the same thing, constantly
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    Quote Originally Posted by quasar
    you want a fast absorbing protein after your workout because it causes a large insulin spike which helps shuttle the BCAAs into the muscle for repair, other times during the day (morning and night esp), mix your whey with casein or egg to diversify your protein intake if it'll be more than around 3 hours until you down your next shake (to stall catabolism) and of course eat as much lean/clean protein as poss. from real food
    I have never heard of protein causing an insulin spike, the spike comes from carbs(level of spike depending on the GI of the carb). Anybody else heard of this? Quasar just curious where did you get this info?
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    Protein does nothing for insulin response, if anything whey powders are perfect for diets where you need to be in ketosis.. Mix in water, no carbs..
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