CKD or 40/40/20 w/clen first? (also got bromo)
- 02-01-2004, 07:34 PM
CKD or 40/40/20 w/clen first? (also got bromo)
21 yrs old,
13% bodyfat(205 lean bodymass..)
got a few bottles of clen and and was want to cut. was wondering if a traditional 40/40/20 diet with clen would work out better than a ckd at first?
i havent done a low carb diet in some time but from my previous experience i was always weak as hell... possibly becasue i didnt eat enough fats. not sure...
on a sidenote i also got a bottle of bromo... but i cant find any good faqs or results or how to use properly...
so ckd or clen first? i wanna get down to like 8% if possible
- 02-01-2004, 09:21 PM
you need carbs when using clen.
have a read below. it should answer most of your questions
CLENBUTERAL FAQ: EVERYTHING YOU
NEEDED TO KNOW ABOUT CLENBUTEROL
What is Clenbuterol?
Clenbuterol is a beta-2 agonist and is used in many countries as a broncodilator
for the treatment of asthma. Because of it's long half life, clenbuterol is not
FDA approved for medical use. It is a central nervous system stimulant and acts
like adrenaline. It shares many of the same side effects as other CNS stimulants
like ephedrine. Contrary to popular belief, Clenbuterol has a half life of 35
hours and not 48 hours.
Dosing and Cycling
Clenbuterol comes in 20mcg tablets, although it is also available in syrup, pump
and injectable form. It's also available as a powder in some areas. Doses are
very dependent on how well the user responds to the side effects, but somewhere
in the range of 4-8 tablets per day for men and 2-4 tablets a day for women is
most common. Clenbuterol loses its thermogenic effects after around 8 weeks when
body temperature drops back to normal. Its anabolic/anti-catabolic properties
fade away at around the 18 day mark. Taking the long half life into
consideration, the most effective way of cycling clen is 2 weeks on/ 2 weeks off
for no more than 12 weeks. Ephedrine or Yohimbine can be used in the off weeks.
Clenbuterol vs Ephedrine vs DNP
Ephedrine will raise metabolic levels by about 2-3 percent and 200mg of DNP
raises metabolic levels by about 30 percent. Clenbuterol raises metabolic levels
about 10 percent and it can raise body temperature several degrees.
DNP is by far the most effective fat burner but many people will never use it
because of the risks associated with it. It also offers no anti-catabolic
benefit. Although it does have anti-catabolic effect, ephedrine's short
half-life prevents it from being all that effective.
As far as side effects, Clenbuterol's are certainly milder than DNP's, and some
would even say milder than an ECA stack. There is no ECA-style crash on
Clenbuterol and many users find it easier on the prostate and sex drive. This
may in part be due to the fact that Clen is generally used for only 2 weeks at a
INCREASED BLOOD PRESSURE
The most significant side effects are muscle cramps, nervousness, headaches, and
increased blood pressure.
Muscle cramps can be avoided by drinking 1.5-2 gallons of water and consuming
bananas and oranges or supplementing with potassium tablets at 200-400mg a
day taken before bed on an empty stomach. Taurine at 3-5grams is a necessity in
Headaches can easily be avoided with Tylenol Extra Strength taking at the first
signs of a headache.
Post-Cycle Therapy: Clen is used post cycle to aid in recovery. It allows the
user to continue eating large amounts of food, without worrying about adding
body fat. It also helps the user maintain more of his strength as well as his
intensity in the gym. Diet: Roughly the same as on cycle.
Fat loss: The most popular use for Clen, it also increases muscle hardness,
vascularity, strength and size on a caloric deficit. For the most significant
fat loss, Clen can be stacked with T3. Diet: A high protein(1.5g per lb of
bodyweight), moderate carb(0.5g to 1g per lb of bodyweight), low fat diet(0.25g
per lb of bodyweight) seems to work best with Clen.
Alternative to Steroids: Clenbuterol has mild steroid-like properties and can be
used by non-AS using bodybuilder to increase LBM as well as strength and muscle
hardness. Diet: A moderate carb, high protein, moderate fat diet work well.
Stimulant/Performance Enhancement: It can be used as a stimulant, but an ECA
stack may be a better choice because of it's much shorter half-life. Diet: To
take full advantage of the stimulatory effects of Clen, carbohydrates must be
included in the diet. Ketogenic diets do not work well in this case.
Precautions: Is Clen for you?
The same precautions that apply to Ephedrine must be applied to Clen, although
some people find ECA stacks are harsher than Clen. It should not be stacked
with other CNS stimulants such as Ephedrine and Yohimbine. These combinations
are unnecessary and potentially dangerous. Caffeine can be used in moderation
before a workout for an extra quick. burst of energy.
A word on Ketotifen
Ketotifen is safe antihistamine used extensively some European countries to
treat asthma and allergies. It can up regulate beta-2-receptors that Clen down
regulates. Basically, it allows users to extend their use of Clen for 6-8 weeks
at a time. 2-3mg a day is ideal, 10mg as found in "superclen" can make users
extremely drowsy. It also increases the effectiveness of Clen so doses must be
adjusted accordingly. The downfall of this drug is its ability to induce
extreme hunger is some people, which is not a desirable state to be in when
Most users that report bad side effects and discontinue use are those who use
high doses right at the start of the cycle. The worst side effects occur within
the first 3-4 days of use.
A first time user should not exceed 40mcg the first day. Increase by one tab
until the side effects are not tolerable
Example of a first cycle:
Day5: 80mcg(Note: Increase the dose only when the side effects are tolerable)
Day13: 80 mcg (Tapering is not necessary, but it helps some users get back to
Day14: 60 mcgs
Day 17: ECA/ NYC stack
Example of a second cycle:
Day13: 100 mcg
Day14: 80 mcgs
Day 17: ECA/ NYC stack
What else do I need to know?
Taurine MUST be used with Clen at 3-5g daily. Clenbuterol depletes taurine
levels in the liver which stops the conversion of T4 to T3 in the liver.
Taurine allows the user to avoid the dreaded rebound effect and painful muscle
cramps. It's a must with Clen.
Clenbuterol should not be taken too close to a workout. It can interfere with
your breathing and complete ruin your workout. When doing cardio, it's
advisable to stay at a consistent pace and avoid HIIT style routines.
Do not take Clen Past 4pm and drink plenty of water; 1.5-2 gallons a day.
If you have any questions or comments on this article, email me at [email protected]
02-01-2004, 09:34 PM
yeah bro i know i need carbs
my question is whether i would lose more fat initially using a ckd diet without clen or a balanced diet w/clen
02-01-2004, 11:00 PM
In most cases, studies have proven the first 4-6 weeks on a high protein-low carb, subjects have lost more weight. But after that both diets even out.. But if you are going with something lower fat, the 40-40-20 works better in most cases.. just make sure your fats are good fats.
02-01-2004, 11:14 PM
I've come to the conclusion that most fat burners work better with a low fat diet than a traditional CKD. THe reason? They help mobilize and oxidize fatty acids better when dietary fat is kept to a minimum. Now that doesn't mean low fat diets are better, its just I think the traditional ECA/NYC/Clen/T3 combos work better in a low fat environment.
For answers to board issues, read the Suggestion and News forum at the bottom of the main page.
02-02-2004, 07:49 AM
a friend of mine i haven't seen for a while has gotten into real good shape all of a sudden and the only thing he's done is add clen.
he said he was eating like there was no tomorrow and dropping fat. he's a endo/meso, similiar to me, and has to watch his diet very carefully most of the time but he says he's eating plenty, within reason, & he's still dropping fat.
i have to agree with Bobo about the ECA's & low fat dieting. i did a CKD for about a year and found that ECA's really didn't do much except for a bit of a pre-exercise boost toward the end of the low carb week when i was really down on energy.
Rome, with that info i'd probably go for the CKD after then clen cycle. i put on a lot of good size while doing the CKD to.
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