caffeine = insulin resistance = fat fat fat

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  1. caffeine = insulin resistance = fat fat fat


    I have been doing alot of reading on caffeine...and I fully believe if you endmorphic...caffiene is yoru enemy.

    Caffeine seem to really make your body ignorant to insuilin release....thus making fat gain easy and fat loss hard.

    I am going all out to eliminate caffeine from my diet to see if it helps with cutting.


  2. Quote Originally Posted by IRONPOPE View Post
    I have been doing alot of reading on caffeine...and I fully believe if you endmorphic...caffiene is yoru enemy.

    Caffeine seem to really make your body ignorant to insuilin release....thus making fat gain easy and fat loss hard.

    I am going all out to eliminate caffeine from my diet to see if it helps with cutting.
    I thought the research was somewhat mixed on the insulin sensitivity.
    It's definitely a no-no if trying to control cortisol.

  3. Quote Originally Posted by GotTest View Post
    I thought the research was somewhat mixed on the insulin sensitivity.
    It's definitely a no-no if trying to control cortisol.
    Personally, I dont know if it creates insulin resistance on its own...but if you are already insulin resistant or leaning toward it ...then caffeine will make sure you are fully insulin resistant and make cutting HARD.

    not to mention the cortisol angle u mentioned
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  4. Can't you get around it by going low-carb while cutting? Should make you insulin sensitive while reducing insulin by a lot. It's so hard to give up caffeine.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by Gutterpump View Post
    Can't you get around it by going low-carb while cutting? Should make you insulin sensitive while reducing insulin by a lot. It's so hard to give up caffeine.
    i think it depends on your body type. If you having difficulties cutting ..or staying cut...and you have alot of caffeine in your diet... then i would elminate it and see what happens...

    i dont trust caffeine myself. 4 green tea tabs is a cup of coffee worth of caffeine by itself...

  6. Quote Originally Posted by Gutterpump View Post
    It's so hard to give up caffeine.
    I feel ya on that one!
    I try to defend my caffeine all the time when really I sould be cutting back.
    I guess it's only best when stacked with ephedrine and aspirin
  7. UKStrength
    UKStrength's Avatar

    I suppose there are other 'non-stimulant' based fatburners out there, perhaps in association with transdermal fat loss agents to avoid the use of stimulants but still get that mobilisation of fatty acids into the bloodstream?

    I have to agree with GotTest though, it is pretty awesome stacked with E & A

  8. i dont get it what is the difference/better insulin sensitive or insulin resistance

  9. Im in on this subject of discussion.

    I am a stim junkie, i know caffeine isnt good for me, but im addicted.

    serious

  10. There seems to be some confusion in this thread. Stimulants increase blood glucose levels. That is how they work. Adrenaline converts glycogen into glucose. As glycogen stores deplete, other sources of energy are sought, which is why the stimulant both burns fat and increases cortisol. I wouldn't say that the elevated cortisol is necessarily a bad thing, as it makes fat more soluble, so long as the fluctuations in cortisol levels are at the correct times.

    Back to stimulants and insulin, constant high blood sugar levels lead for a decrease in insulin receptors.

    Insulin is the hormone used to store energy into cells: fat cells and muscle cells the like. With insulin resistance, the body becomes less efficient in storing energy in both fat and muscle tissues the like. Why is this going to make you fat? The common symptom of the development of type-II diabetes (extreme insulin resistance) is an abrupt weightloss without any exercise or dietary changes.

    People tend to associate insulin resistance with fatness because most people who develop diabetes had eaten many refined sugars, to cause such resistance to insulin. As I'm hoping this post shows, insulin resistance is not going to make you fat, but rather the opposite. It's eating all of those pixie sticks to become insulin resistance that makes a person fat.

    Cliff's
    -Stimulants don't make you fat.
    -Pixie Sticks make you fat.
    -Both cause insulin resistance.
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  11. Also I just mentioned this in a different thread, but daily intake of caffeine decrease the cortisol response.

  12. Quote Originally Posted by rochabp View Post
    i dont get it what is the difference/better insulin sensitive or insulin resistance
    Insulin sensitivity is the concept of normal utilization of glucose in the body, and is increased after strenuous excercise. Insulin resistance is what type II diabetics experience, thus resulting in high blood glucose levels and obesity. Either their tissue cells cannot utilize insulin, or their pancreas cannot make insulin. Therefore insulin sensitivity is preferred.

    This caffene theory is interesting. It's been hard for me to cut fat and I drink 5 or 6 diet soda's a day. Hmmmm... possible experiment.

    Up! Looks like I jumped to the end of the thread without reading all responses. Sinner covered it thoroughly.

  13. Quote Originally Posted by thesinner View Post
    There seems to be some confusion in this thread. Stimulants increase blood glucose levels. That is how they work. Adrenaline converts glycogen into glucose. As glycogen stores deplete, other sources of energy are sought, which is why the stimulant both burns fat and increases cortisol. I wouldn't say that the elevated cortisol is necessarily a bad thing, as it makes fat more soluble, so long as the fluctuations in cortisol levels are at the correct times.

    Back to stimulants and insulin, constant high blood sugar levels lead for a decrease in insulin receptors.

    Insulin is the hormone used to store energy into cells: fat cells and muscle cells the like. With insulin resistance, the body becomes less efficient in storing energy in both fat and muscle tissues the like. Why is this going to make you fat? The common symptom of the development of type-II diabetes (extreme insulin resistance) is an abrupt weightloss without any exercise or dietary changes.

    People tend to associate insulin resistance with fatness because most people who develop diabetes had eaten many refined sugars, to cause such resistance to insulin. As I'm hoping this post shows, insulin resistance is not going to make you fat, but rather the opposite. It's eating all of those pixie sticks to become insulin resistance that makes a person fat.

    Cliff's
    -Stimulants don't make you fat.
    -Pixie Sticks make you fat.
    -Both cause insulin resistance.
    what about ben and jerrys (half baked) and reese pb cups? are those legal?........





    damnt.

  14. Quote Originally Posted by thesinner View Post
    There seems to be some confusion in this thread. Stimulants increase blood glucose levels. That is how they work. Adrenaline converts glycogen into glucose. As glycogen stores deplete, other sources of energy are sought, which is why the stimulant both burns fat and increases cortisol. I wouldn't say that the elevated cortisol is necessarily a bad thing, as it makes fat more soluble, so long as the fluctuations in cortisol levels are at the correct times.

    Back to stimulants and insulin, constant high blood sugar levels lead for a decrease in insulin receptors.

    Insulin is the hormone used to store energy into cells: fat cells and muscle cells the like. With insulin resistance, the body becomes less efficient in storing energy in both fat and muscle tissues the like. Why is this going to make you fat? The common symptom of the development of type-II diabetes (extreme insulin resistance) is an abrupt weightloss without any exercise or dietary changes.

    People tend to associate insulin resistance with fatness because most people who develop diabetes had eaten many refined sugars, to cause such resistance to insulin. As I'm hoping this post shows, insulin resistance is not going to make you fat, but rather the opposite. It's eating all of those pixie sticks to become insulin resistance that makes a person fat.

    Cliff's
    -Stimulants don't make you fat.
    -Pixie Sticks make you fat.
    -Both cause insulin resistance.
    i got a boner reading this post.

    seriously.

  15. Quote Originally Posted by p00ndawg View Post
    i got a boner reading this post.

    seriously.
    Most guys get boners during sexual encounters with the opposite sex or watching porn, but I've never heard of one from reading a forum post about caffeine. I try not to judge.
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  16. On a low carb diet with using thos stim I always incluse something like pslin or glycobol to reduce sugar levels and increase insulin sensitivity. However , and sinner correct if I'm wrong, but certain anabolics like tren bind to the glucocorticoid recepter very strongly making it hard for cortisol to be on a rise...?

  17. I've never heard of tren doing that. Deca and Dbol are more common for such applications.

    Great for your joints, but outside of that, I don't see much.

    Last I checked, AAS channel the steroidogenesis process, and typically increase cortisol. (with the exception of esoteric 11-OH steroids).
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  18. Quote Originally Posted by crazyfool405 View Post
    On a low carb diet with using thos stim I always incluse something like pslin or glycobol to reduce sugar levels and increase insulin sensitivity.
    I'd be wary with this. Perhaps only take such things before bed; otherwise, it's very likely to cause hypoglycemia, especially if you are not consuming a lot of carbs.
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  19. Quote Originally Posted by IRONPOPE View Post
    Personally, I dont know if it creates insulin resistance on its own...but if you are already insulin resistant or leaning toward it ...then caffeine will make sure you are fully insulin resistant and make cutting HARD.

    not to mention the cortisol angle u mentioned
    So what if you're on a CKD?
  20. Mars1107
    Mars1107's Avatar

    Thats why its good to take cort blockers with stims, i think thats very synergic.

    Also throw in some insulin support, like cinnamon, vandium sulphate, and corsolic acid,ect.

    Stimulants are mainly good for doing one thing, decreasing hunger.

    Only stim that i think actually has science for fatloss, is ephedrine.Im not shure if theres been studies.

    But the ECA stack, i recently tried, has been the only good thing, theres really not sides for me at least, and it gives a lot of stable energy. The thing is, i really dont like coming off. Any stimulant for the matter, but you need breaks.

    Taking adaptogenic herbs and pregnelones helps a little bit with the stim tolerance.

  21. Cool thread...(sipping coffee...) Since we're on the topic of Caffein, is there any difference between the caffein in coffee vs. green tea.

    On my last cut, I stopped coffee and was drinking loads of Green Tea (I was in a hellish place without coffee...) and cutting seemed easier. Couldn't figure out why.
  22. Mars1107
    Mars1107's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Brenn View Post
    Cool thread...(sipping coffee...) Since we're on the topic of Caffein, is there any difference between the caffein in coffee vs. green tea.

    On my last cut, I stopped coffee and was drinking loads of Green Tea (I was in a hellish place without coffee...) and cutting seemed easier. Couldn't figure out why.
    Yeah Coffe has cholergenic acid an antioxidant which helps negate some of the bad effects PLAIN caffiene has.

    Green Tea, is usually high in ECGC and other polyphenols which aid in fat loss.


    However, Oolong Tea, a cousin to green tea for fatness, is even better than green tea because it has polymerized polyphenols. Look it up and buy some. Its good stuff.



    Plus Oolong really has a strong thermogenic effect,makes me sweat, and it may reduce hunger a good bit.If u need more info on Oolong, PM me.

    Usually i drink coffe for the conveince.
    I think i prefer coffe for it altertnes and doesnt make me sweat as much.

    Another caffiene source to look out for is Yerba Mate, which is a more relaxing caffiene, and is said to contain an MAOI.

  23. Quote Originally Posted by Brenn View Post
    Cool thread...(sipping coffee...) Since we're on the topic of Caffein, is there any difference between the caffein in coffee vs. green tea.

    On my last cut, I stopped coffee and was drinking loads of Green Tea (I was in a hellish place without coffee...) and cutting seemed easier. Couldn't figure out why.
    That is funny, I am drinking coffee as I read this as well.
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  24. Quote Originally Posted by UKStrength View Post

    I have to agree with GotTest though, it is pretty awesome stacked with E & A
    best pre w/o out there. I love it before early fasted am cardio. Weight melts away
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  25. I still stick by my guns as nothing matters if you are able to burn gross calories. I remember when I could down a pint of mayfield every week, eat 3 whole pizza and still maintain sub 13 percent bf.

    Of course I was younger, played basketball 5 days, ran track, and did cross cycling, but who's counting, heh
    damn. it's tuff getting old

  26. Quote Originally Posted by hardknock View Post
    I still stick by my guns as nothing matters if you are able to burn gross calories. I remember when I could down a pint of mayfield every week, eat 3 whole pizza and still maintain sub 13 percent bf.

    Of course I was younger, played basketball 5 days, ran track, and did cross cycling, but who's counting, heh
    damn. it's tuff getting old
    how old are you?, old man

  27. Quote Originally Posted by Mars1107 View Post
    Stimulants are mainly good for doing one thing, decreasing hunger.

    Only stim that i think actually has science for fatloss, is ephedrine.Im not shure if theres been studies.
    Are you sure about these two statements?
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  28. Usually when I drink coffee (caffeine) it is black and between a meal. The only real negative issue I have read is drinking coffee (caffeine) with carbohydrates (esp. simple) which can affect blood sugar negatively causing insulin spike. I figure there is no problem if it is in moderation and taken at the right times; especially without any simple carbs. Empty stomach before a workout is probably the best use of caffeine, or one of the best uses.

    Just my two cents.

  29. Quote Originally Posted by Kristofer68SS View Post
    how old are you?, old man
    36 in a few weeks
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  30. Quote Originally Posted by thesinner View Post
    Are you sure about these two statements?
    I think he meant purely alone. As in, just using the pill with no, or little exercise. Of course, that's not the way to do it, but for testing purposes, ephedrine did show evidence of that. It being the only one, I am not sure.
    ---The internet is the father of the electronic lynch-mob---

  31. Quote Originally Posted by hardknock View Post
    36 in a few weeks
    yeah, i feel ya.........37 in september.

    if i look at a cheeseburger and fries i gain a pound. lol

    its all wasted on the youth i tell ya.
  32. Mars1107
    Mars1107's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by thesinner View Post
    Are you sure about these two statements?
    The last statement about ephedrine, i said i was unshure about.

    The other statement about stimulants being only good at decreasing hunger is only partially true. Sometimes stimulants can even indirectly increase your hunger, with their crashes.
    And yes, it is my opinion, that the main pathways od fatloss of conventional stim are mainly do to decreasing hunger.
    Also by the fat burning potentional of norepinephrine, dopamine that they release.

    It really depends on the particular stim for its direct fat burning action. Even if the stim has major fat burning action, im pretty shure thats the main pathway, i tend to think the pathway is indirect, decreased hunger.

  33. Not asking for a source, but is ephedrine available to buy? I thought the original ephedrine was banned and now there is just the weak, herbal stuff.

  34. Quote Originally Posted by TheDarkHalf View Post
    So what if you're on a CKD?
    CKD is different, in that you are burning ketones for energy. The concept during a CKD is to avoid an insulin spike (during the week) which would result in glycolysis and glucose metabolism, thus halting ketogenesis. I know that Lyle McDonald mentions the citric acid in some soft drinks may cause an insulin spike if the individual is sensitive to it. I did the diet and kept drinking diet cokes (mmm... Caffeine) because they didn't knock me out of ketosis. If they had, I probably would've quit the diet!

  35. Quote Originally Posted by hardknock View Post
    I think he meant purely alone. As in, just using the pill with no, or little exercise. Of course, that's not the way to do it, but for testing purposes, ephedrine did show evidence of that. It being the only one, I am not sure.
    AHhh ok, I was gonna say

    Interesting discussion though. I've cut out caffeine other than Slim Xtreme that I just started. It was easy for me to cut out sodas mainly because of the acid on the teefers. I'm only 18, and I've known people that ate OK(not all healthy nor all bad) and drank a nice bit of soda, and their teeth are at just a few years older than me, so, I quit, lol.

    So, stims aside, and not on a CKD, it's safe to assume caffeine = bad? I've also met people that train pretty hard, and get good results, and have caffeine. So is it really THAT significant? Or is it simply the amount that you have over x grams that is significant?

  36. Quote Originally Posted by bezoe View Post
    CKD is different, in that you are burning ketones for energy. The concept during a CKD is to avoid an insulin spike (during the week) which would result in glycolysis and glucose metabolism, thus halting ketogenesis. I know that Lyle McDonald mentions the citric acid in some soft drinks may cause an insulin spike if the individual is sensitive to it. I did the diet and kept drinking diet cokes (mmm... Caffeine) because they didn't knock me out of ketosis. If they had, I probably would've quit the diet!
    Thanks for the reply, however that still doesn't explain whether caffeine will have a positive or negative effect on weight loss while being on a CKD.

  37. Quote Originally Posted by TheDarkHalf View Post
    Thanks for the reply, however that still doesn't explain whether caffeine will have a positive or negative effect on weight loss while being on a CKD.
    I think he's saying it is OK, because you are burning fat in a different way.

  38. Quote Originally Posted by ShadowFury View Post
    I think he's saying it is OK, because you are burning fat in a different way.
    10-4, thanks for clearing that up.

  39. Quote Originally Posted by bezoe View Post
    Not asking for a source, but is ephedrine available to buy? I thought the original ephedrine was banned and now there is just the weak, herbal stuff.
    As a supplement, no.

    It is available in most states as an OTC asthma medication.

    You usually have to go to the pharmacists counter to get it. The same goes for the original sudafed. There's this whole regulation bit about it, because so many people were buying it to make meth. So now, every purchase is logged and sent to the DEA. If patterns start to happen, or you start buying too much, you get a visitor at your door. Handcuffs might be involved, but I can't imagine it being something kinky and hot.
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  40. Quote Originally Posted by ShadowFury View Post
    I think he's saying it is OK, because you are burning fat in a different way.
    Yes, exactly. However, it is an effective energy booster (ECA stack) which will help you during your workouts without carbs and may also assist fat loss because of adrenal gland stimulation. I see no negative effect during CKD though.
  

  
 

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