My DNP Experience and some questions
- 04-23-2009, 01:38 PM
My DNP Experience and some questions
I made a post here a way back during my 8th day of my DNP cycle. This is what i did 150 mg for 4 days, 300 mg for 4 days and then 450 mg for 2 days. i split the dosages in 6 hours apart. so when i took the 450 mg, i took 150 mg at 8am, then at 2pm then again at 8 pm and then continue again the next day. the supplements i took were:
2x1000mg of Vitamin C.
2x400 IU of vitamin E and
1 gram of potassium gluconate,
1000 gram of magnesium (at 450 mg of dnp)
and then EC and some Multi with plenty of water.
I used a 40/40/20 carb/protein/fat diet with a maintenance calorie.
I lost maybe 5 lbs of fat, but the post dnp experience was not pleasant. for some reason, (any comment or suggestion are welcome), most of the common side affects that are associated with a dnp run occurred during the post cycle period. one my muscles were dead sore from doing anything, i was hotter, and i was got hives. during the cycle i didn't feel much, heck i was even lifting just normally.
if i were to run another cycle again, (i will always keep my body temp in check) what should i do differently from my first cycle?
and how do i prevent from getting hives in the post cycle period and possibly during the dnp cycle?
- 04-23-2009, 02:57 PM
Ive got to nip out now mate but basically your sensitive to the compound and its supression of histamines. I could recommend clarityn and benadryl again but if your predisposed it wouldnt make little difference imo.
I'll add more later.
04-23-2009, 03:14 PM
04-23-2009, 04:27 PM
DNP is a cellular metabolic poison....we when we are so consumed with health and fitness would you use somethings as dangerous as this stuff...there's a reason you don't hear about alot of people using this compound...its not ****ing healthy for you....clean up the diet and get on some eca...that's all you need
04-23-2009, 04:35 PM
I think DNP is great. The thing is, from my experience, it takes everyone different amounts of time to absorb and excrete the stuff from the body. For me, the first day or two i feel no change, then day 3 it hits me like a brick. By the end of day 5 i need 2 days off. Then I do another 5 days on and im done. I'd say it seems like you are a slow absorber/excreter. Try starting cycle with the high dose then taper off till you stop.
04-23-2009, 04:42 PM
Sorry for the retarded question but...
Whats DNP? Word is too short for a search here on the boards and google won't give me a straight up answer... Is it a steroid? Supplement? Pro Hormone? Any links greatly appreciated as well.
04-23-2009, 04:52 PM
04-23-2009, 05:00 PM
To the OP: Given the ~36 hour half-life of DNP, you had built up just over 1000mg by the 10th day. After that, it would have quickly dissipated exited your system (being down to just over 600 mg on day 11 and at 400mg on day 12, which would be comparable to about day 4.5 of your "cycle.") You may want to stay at 300mg as your max if you try it again. This would max you out at just over 700mg until you cease taking it. That amount may be more tolerable. Also, the suggestion of benadryl *may* be helpful.
04-23-2009, 05:10 PM
04-23-2009, 05:14 PM
IMO, given the initial sides you were expericing i wouldnt run it again, it seems as though you suffered most of the extreme side effects from both sides of the fence.
04-23-2009, 05:16 PM
[QUOTE=t-bone2;1934469]How is a phosphorylation oxidative decoupler "poison" when taken in a controlled manner?QUOTE]
Give him a break he is correct in the sense dinitrophenols (spellings probably wrong) are toxic to the liver, kidneys and nervous system.
DNP causes hyperthermia , dehydration, tachycardia and possible convulsions that typically signify an immediate life-threatening intoxication.
[Source: some ****ing internet site]
People have died as a result of this as little as 3 days in, at a dose as small as 300mg.
In short, give this mother****er a wide birth.
Last edited by 0-hero; 04-24-2009 at 05:17 AM. Reason: Added a source for t boner
04-23-2009, 05:29 PM
How do you guys usually divide up your dosages? if i do 300mgs should i do 150 twice a day or 300 mg all at once in the morning?
do you guys usually use glycerol? if so where do you get it?
04-23-2009, 05:39 PM
Im out bro, im advised you as much as my conscious will let me.
I actually got worried earlier when you didnt reply to the other thread lol, especially since i had given advice etc.
Good luck with it and FFS dont die!
04-23-2009, 06:18 PM
The conclusion from this study done at the Harvard Medical School and published in 2007:
"Finally, these results strongly suggest a re-evaluation of the
potential for using chemical uncoupling as a therapeutic approach
to human obesity. Seventy years ago, DNP was widely used to treat
obesity (18–20). Unfortunately, its over-the-counter accessibility
led to uncontrolled use and reports of toxicity and death, so
chemical uncoupling of mitochondria was effectively eliminated as
a plausible means of treating obesity. However, mild chronic doses
had been remarkably effective and, surprisingly, were much less
toxic than might have been expected for a compound that uncoupled
OXPHOS. Some of the relatively low toxicity of DNP may be
explained by increases in cellular glycolysis and increased electron
transport because of altered ADP/ATP ratios, but it is highly likely
that the chronic mitochondrial homeostatic mechanisms described
here come into play. Fig. 6 shows that these mechanisms exist in
muscle and liver of mice, and it is highly likely that they exist in
tissues of humans. Mild, but chronic, treatment with mitochondrial
uncouplers should cause increased energy expenditure and oxygen
consumption while causing little or no change in ATP levels. This
old, but very simple, idea for treating human obesity should be
revisited with an eye to the molecular compensatory mechanism
But thanks for jumping in with your opinion as I'm sure your knowlwedge is vastly superior to this and many other rescent studies on the topic.
And next time you hastely google a topic, why don't you give some credit to the source, regardless of how lame it may be?
04-23-2009, 06:25 PM
04-23-2009, 06:53 PM
Great study. But he is still right. 2,4 DNP is a poison, whether or not a study out of Harvard says it should be revisited as a potential obesity treatment. So are many pharmaceuticals poisons...the most obvious I can think of are the chemotherapy drugs...all poisons, but used in a specific manner under the supervision of a trained medical professional, can be life-saving.
04-23-2009, 07:15 PM
04-23-2009, 09:09 PM
This first graph below is of the OPs most recent protocol. Notice the heavy spikes as dosage is ratched up over the subsequent days. It also dissipates quickly once usage is terminated.
As an alternate example, this protocol maxes at 250mg and the active level will settle at ~700mg until usage is terminated.
04-24-2009, 05:16 AM
So after you flapped your mouth, we have reached the conclusion its a poison?
LOL@ trying to play down DNP, you sir are a flat out ****ing idiot.
"Hey OP take DNP its ok, because yeah uh it might kill you but uh so can water you know, so uh yeah, knock yourself out"
[Source: typical internet hero, page 1]
04-24-2009, 02:55 PM
And from the "I'm backed into a corner and don't know how to make an intelligent argument" department... LOLZ.
04-24-2009, 02:59 PM
Lawl@ screenie, i think it was pretty much obvious i was going to neg you for that comment.
Lets see...a guy with no prior DNP experience browses, this is the first thread he see's and you arguing that its not toxic, its not a poison and infact you can die from drinking too much water, so what the hell, you might as well do DNP.
04-24-2009, 03:12 PM
04-26-2009, 02:37 PM
dnp is the worst thing you can put into your body,its not worth the health risks.People almost died taking lipokinetix and that had an herbal natural form of dnp(it worked the same way)the stuff makes your body like 70% less effiecent,spelling.most of the energy your cells need get thrown out as heat.
People have died on this **** in a little under a week and others have had severe liver problems,the stuff is worse on the liver than stacking dbols and abombs and drinking on top.
stay the **** away from dnp.its a freaking chemical that causes cancer.I read an article a long time ago that had this stuff messing up your bodies own cell reproduction,it was ****ing up the way cells split and duplicate and was causing mutations in chomosomes.
04-27-2009, 05:53 AM
04-27-2009, 05:41 PM
* No information is available on the carcinogenic effects of 2,4-dinitrophenol in humans. (1)
* One study reported that 2,4-dinitrophenol did not promote tumor development in mice. (1,5)
* EPA has not classified 2,4-dinitrophenol for potential carcinogenicity. (4)
(1) Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry (ATSDR). Toxicological Profile for Dinitrophenols. Public Health Service, U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, Atlanta, GA. 1995.
(4) U.S. Environmental Protection Agency. Integrated Risk Information System (IRIS) on 2,4-Dinitrophenol. National Center for Environmental Assessment, Office of Research and Development, Washington, DC. 1999.
(5)U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. Hazardous Substances Databank (HSDB, online database). National Toxicology Information Program, National Library of Medicine, Bethesda, MD. 1993.
And I'll help y'all out a little more. Go search the US National Library of Medicine's Toxicology Data Network http://toxnet.nlm.nih.gov/ and show where DNP is (a) carcinogenic or (b) AMES-positive.
Why don't you also post up the research to liver toxicity while you're at it. You know, some real research so people can decide for themselves?
Frankly, if it is truely the "worst thing you can put into your body," then you should have no problem backing up your claims with some sort of scientific evidence.
04-27-2009, 05:59 PM
Used responsibly, and conservatively, it CAN be used safely and with minimal side effects.
I prefer longer cycles of very low dose.
Evolutionary Muse - Inspire to Evolve
Flawless Skin Couture - We give you the tools to make you Flawless
04-27-2009, 06:41 PM
(1) Simkins S. (1937). "Dinitrophenol and desiccated thyroid in the treatment of obesity: a comprehensive clinical and laboratory study". J Am Med Assoc 108: 2117.
04-28-2009, 12:25 AM
Heres a little on taking an uncoupler like dnp.People had to have liver transplants on this crap and people have died using dnp.If you want to use this **** by all means stop posting on here like its not safe.It is very hard on the body,I myself have taken it and wish I never have.Its been years and I still dont feel 100% recovered.
What we know about usnic acid:
J Ethnopharmacol 1991 Jul;33(3):217-20 Related Articles, Books,
Mitodepressive, clastogenic and biochemical effects of (+)-usnic acid in mice.
al-Bekairi AM, Qureshi S, Chaudhry MA, Krishna DR, Shah AH.
Experimental Animal Care Centre, College of Pharmacy, King Saud University, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia.
Mice were treated orally with aqueous suspensions of (+)-usnic acid in a single dose of either 100 or 200 mg/kg. The effects on femur cells and proteins and on nucleic acids of liver cells were studied 24-72 h after treatment. (+)-Usnic acid was found to affect the proliferation of polychromatic erythrocytes possibly by interference with RNA biosynthesis. The slight increase in the micronucleated polychromatic erythrocytes without affecting DNA synthesis suggests an effect of usnic acid on spindle apparatus.
This study has caused a lot of debate as far as the extent to which usnic acid is cancerous. In reality, it seems that most people do not understand the results of this study and are blowing the slight clastogenic effects out of proportion.
Study 2 WITH ADDITIONAL COMMENTARY BY macrophage69alpha, elite fitness moderator:
“Why usnic acid causes liver failure/cancer...
UA is generally a much weaker uncoupler than DNP.. HOWEVER THERE ARE VERY UNPLEASANT EXCEPTIONS..
This study bodes very ill for the use of usnic acid and the link to liver failure/cancer..
UA requires 1/50 the dose to cause complete halt of oxidative phoshoralation in the liver as compared to DNP...
interesting that the users of LIPO-k have liver failure.”
1: Nat Toxins 1996;4(2):96-102 Related Articles, Links
Lichen acids as uncouplers of oxidative phosphorylation of mouse-liver mitochondria.
Abo-Khatwa AN, al-Robai AA, al-Jawhari DA.
Department of Biochemistry, Faculty of Science, King Abdulaziz University, Jeddah, Saudi Arabia.
Three lichen acids-namely, (+)usnic acid, vulpinic acid, and atranorin-were isolated from three lichen species (Usnea articulata, Letharia vulpina, and Parmelia tinctorum, respectively). The effects of these lichen products on mice-liver mitochondrial oxidative functions in various respiratory states and on oxidative phosphorylation were studied polarographically in vitro. The lichen acids exhibited characteristics of the 2,4-dinitrophenol (DNP), a classical uncoupler of oxidative phosphorylation. Thus, they released respiratory control and oligomycin inhibited respiration, hindered ATP synthesis, and enhanced Mg(+2)-ATPase activity. (+)Usnic acid at a concentration of 0.75 microM inhibited ADP/O ratio by 50%, caused maximal stimulation of both state-4 respiration (100%) and ATPase activity (300%). Atranorin was the only lichen acid with no significant effect on ATPase. The uncoupling effect was dose-dependent in all cases. The minimal concentrations required to cause complete uncoupling of oxidative phosphorylation were as follows: (+)usnic acid (1 microM), vulpinic acid, atranorin (5 microM) and DNP (50 microM). It was postulated that the three lichen acids induce uncoupling by acting on the inner mitochondrial membrane through their lipophilic properties and protonophoric activities
“THIS "supplement" is VERY UNSAFE
’Complete shutdown of oxidative phosphoralation causes liver failure, the inhibition even seen with lower doses causes tremendous amounts of free radical damage as well as impairing liver function which in those susceptible MAY lead to early/rapid expression of liver related cancers.’”
The study posted is valid, but is not relevant by any means. All it says is that Usnic Acid WORKS. It is indeed an uncoupler, and the study cited proves it. Uncouplers can shut down the liver completely if OVERDOSED.
The study cited looks at the concentrations of UA or DNP at the target site (liver mitochondria) which cause complete shutdown of OP. In the study cited, UA did so at 1/50th the concentration of DNP. But to correlate this to dosages taken orally, one has to consider basic issues in absorption and transport to the liver mitochondria. I doubt that DNP and UA are completely identical in such regards. So one could not simply say that you should take 1/50th as much UA as you would DNP for the same degree of biological effect, and of course you couldn't say anything about such effects in any other organ, at least not based on this study. In addition, many consumers take a usnic acid dosage well over a normal DNP dosage and liver failure has not been a concern by any means. This fact alone shows the fallacious nature of this comment.
UA does what it is claimed to do, at least in mice under the conditions of the experiment reported. As with the biological effects of a myriad of other biologically active substances, from certain vitamins to most prescription drugs, at the proper dose it can produce a desired effect and yet in excess, it can prove fatal.
Here is what we know through experience. Some users of UA/SU have reported the following:
1. Rash – Some users develop a rash on usnic acid and sodium usniate. This appears to an allergic reaction to some substance within usnic acid. What we have witnessed is that the rash is mostly present in higher dosages – usually above 750mg. In addition, the rash has subsided in all people who have reported the rash. For some it took a few days, others around 2 weeks to completely subside.
2. Heat and increased sweating – this is the most commonly reported side effect of usnic acid. The heat stops as usage stops and is simply a by-product of the way usnic acid works in your body.
3. Headaches – some people have reported headaches. This could very well be a result of the increased heat and potentially dehydration from increased sweating.
4. Vomiting – 2 or 3 people reported vomiting while taking usnic acid. This tends to be a rare occurrence as far as we know.
5. Elevated enzyme levels – A couple people checked their liver enzyme levels via a blood test and found their levels to be above normal (in one situation, quite high actually). While only a few people have checked their levels, it seems that usnic acid might indeed cause some strain on the liver. Just as 17aa orals are liver toxic and other supplements can raise blood pressure, cause prostate hypertrophy, and other sides, this might be one side effect of usnic acid use. I should point out that it is recommended that usnic acid be cycled (2 weeks at time) to give your liver sufficient recuperation time if it is indeed being strained.
6. Abdominal pain – I have only witnessed this from a few users. This tends to be rare as well.
There needs to be an understanding that simply because a product is over the counter, does not mean that it can be abused. Usnic acid is powerful and effective, yet needs to be treated with respect, just like any other supplement you might take. For some reason, people having been making a huge fuss over usnic acid and the truth is that we have yet to see any intelligent arguments made as to why usnic acid is a horrible supplement so long as it is dosed properly. I hope that through the information presented above, one will see that usnic acid has not been shown to be any more “dangerous” than an ECA for example. The interesting thing about products containing ephedra is that according to the FDA, over 800 injuries have been reported by users and doctors to the FDA and various state medical bodies, including more than 50 deaths. Most of these cases involve the heart attacks or high blood pressure leading to bleeding in the brain or stroke.
Does this mean we should stop using ECA’s? In my opinion no. The objective here is not to present evidence against ephedra. In fact, I think it is effective and safe when used correctly. The key phrase in the previous sentence was, “when used correctly”. What I am trying to say is to take caution when using any supplement for it seems to be the trend that for any effective supplement, there will be people with adverse reactions. The same goes for prescription based drugs as well. Next time you view a commercial on TV for a prescription drug, listen to the words at the end that usually state, “side effects include: nausea, dizziness, diarrhea, nose bleed, etc.
Clearly, the side effects witnessed with usnic acid use are not beyond the normal range witnessed with many other effective supplements. In addition, much of the hype and hysteria should now be reduced based on the explanations to the misrepresented studies above. Lastly, I would like to point out that I do not claim to be a doctor, expert, or scientist. I, however, have done the research on the information available of usnic acid and these are the conclusions we can LOGICALLY make at this point in time. I think it is important for people to continue to post their experiences so that more information can be gathered on usnic acid. This information is extremely valuable for the continuation of the learning and education process regarding usnic acid.
If you are interested in using usnic acid, the following advice should help to make your cycle more successful:
1.As stated earlier, usnic acid may put strain on the liver. Using ALA will help if this is a concern to you (Vitamin C, E, and magnesium should help as well).
2.Only run a 2-week cycle. Users have reported a decrease in fat loss after week 2, and if UA does indeed put strain on the liver, it is a good idea to cycle the product.
heres a kid that died after only a few days on dnp.
Got this from another board. Thought some of the closer ones might be interested.
September 25, 2001
Federal agents have arrested an Indiana man who allegedly used the Internet to sell a banned weight-loss drug that caused the death of a Baldwin man who took it for bodybuilding, according to officials and the victim's family.
Sean Zhang, 24, of Bloomington, Ind., was held on $100,000 bail after a hearing yesterday at U.S. District Court in Indianapolis.
Authorities said Zhang had sold the drug dinitrophenol to Eric Perrin, 22, of Baldwin, a Cornell junior who died Aug. 6. Perrin's parents, Steven and Barbara Perrin, said their son had dropped out of school "to find himself" but became increasingly "obsessed with bodybuilding" and took dinitrophenol, commonly called DNP, to slim his waist.
The couple said in an interview yesterday that they knew the dangers of the drug but agreed to "sit vigil by him" while he took it because he threatened to move out of their home and take the drug elsewhere.
"It was foolish," said Barbara Perrin, a third-grade teacher, explaining she thought Eric had given them no choice. "I hope this will lead body-builders to understand how dangerous the drug is. They should post signs in all the gyms warning about DNP," she said.
Four days after taking the drug, Perrin started having trouble breathing and was rushed to South Nassau Communities Hospital in Oceanside, where he died.
"It's been a horror, an absolute horror. Eric was the love of my life," Barbara Perrin said.
"He was a super-bright kid," said Steven Perrin, an accountant, saying their son had been on the Cornell dean's list, had won a top math prize at Baldwin High School and played saxophone in the all-Nassau High School band.
DNP has been touted in the past by some as a miracle weight-loss drug, but it was banned for use by humans in the 1930s because of its toxicity. As a chemical, dinitrophenol is legally sold as a pesticide and for the manufacture of dyes and wood preservatives.
The death of Perrin was the first in recent years caused by DNP, according to Stewart Magee, regional head of investigations for the Food and Drug Administration.
According to court papers, Perrin contacted Zhang through an encrypted Internet chatroom that is used by bodybuilders interested in illegal drugs.
Zhang was charged under Food and Drug Administration statutes with two counts of selling a drug without proper warning labels. The first count was for allegedly selling the dinitrophenol to Perrin on July 30. The second count was for allegedly selling it to an undercover federal agent on Sept. 8.
Zhang moved from Gaithersburg, Md. to Bloomington, Ind., shortly after Perrin died, but the indictment does not link the move to Perrin's death.
Neither Zhang nor his attorney could be reached to comment. If convicted, Zhang could face up to 6 years in prison.
Sources said Zhang was not charged with more serious crimes because there was no evidence he knew the drug would cause Perrin's death.
After Perrin died, Zhang continued to sell DNP over the Internet, saying it was "the most effective tool available today for the loss of body fat," according to U.S. Attorney Alan Vinegrad. Authorities said the death was reported in the Internet chat room that Zhang used, but they did not say whether Zhang knew of the death.
"Zhang's indictment and arrest should send a clear message to those who would profit from the sale of unapproved drugs," Vinegrad said. "We urge everyone not to use this drug as a weight loss remedy or ingest it for any reason."
Vinegrad said the Food and Drug Administration had set up a phone number for questions about DNP: 301-827-6250.
kids have died taking dnp,I think the guy in the above post that was saying its not that bad was one of dan duchens boys(the maker of UA/lipo)and was trying to make it seem alot safer than it was.
there are countless lawsuits on sytrax from people taking UA/sodium usniate but they all survived.A few needed new livers but made it.
on the other hand people taking dnp did not get a chance to get on the list for a new liver,they died a few days in on there cycle.
04-28-2009, 03:19 AM
here bro i cant put in the url..
but jus put that 2gether n there u goo..
all the info about dnp...
04-28-2009, 03:22 AM
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