Persistant body fat - thinking about liposuction

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  1. Thanks everyone. I'm off to the super market to buy some of the stuff people mentioned.

    Tomorrow I will weigh myself and go on a diet like you guys suggested. I usually sweat during my lifting when I do my back and pecs. Everything else is just sweaty armpits.

    I also don't train my calfs and quads specifically as my cardio gives them a workout (20% incline walking and rowing).


  2. Quote Originally Posted by Hyperion View Post

    I also don't train my calfs and quads specifically as my cardio gives them a workout (20% incline walking and rowing).
    Two exercises that burn mucho fat - Deadlift and Squat.
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  3. Hey Hyperion, it sounds like you have made some great progress, and you are on your way to getting shredded if you play your cards right.

    First, some good news ... your BMI and bodyfat % are both just fine. So now it is time to reframe things, shifting from a focus on weight to a focus on body composition. You may know that, but it it can't be said enough.

    So cutting is the order of the day. Moreover, since your excess "health" is in a few key areas, the focus should be on getting those toned.

    You've gotten a lot of great recommendations, and some advice on sifting through the tons of advice that has already been given. Some of the advice given has sounded really tough (6 consecutive days of carb deprivation, anyone?). If this has worked for whoever suggested it, more power to you, but I think that there are good results that can be had without enduring such deprivation.

    Not to sound cynical, but I think the best cutting program will provide the best bang for the buck (quid?) ... as in, the best results for a reasonable amount of effort. You've already gotten some solid advice in terms of cutting out bad carbs, as well as some more stringent/programmatic recommendations.

    I'd like to recommend a book that has been discussed in this forum, though probably not read as much as it should be. The book is
    The Ultimate Diet 2.0
    by Lyle McDonald
    previewable on Google Books: http://books.google.com/books?****mJe6ymyZH7MC

    This book has the massive advantage of being informed by the best science on the subject, being specifically formulated for bodybuilders who are in decent shape ath the outset, and perhaps most important, containing recommendations that are geared to getting maximal results without imposing the kind of hardships that make compliance go bye bye.

    A key lesson of the book is that cutting, like any other important skill, is a discipline, and there is a learning process to get it right. The book lays out a of 6-8 week cutting plan, and the author makes clear that it takes several tries to get it just right. I like the program because instead of six days of deprivation, the caloric restriction is focused on two days per week. Moreover, there is the built in freedom to have desert or pizza on Friday and Saturday, the days that are most likely to tempt a cutter to stray. In short, the plan is designed to maximize compliance AND results, and it's highly flexible. The more you put into it the more you will get out of it.

    Worth checking out, at least...

  4. Im a fan of lyles stuff and that diet is great, i agree that carb cycling and the like isnt required here.

    However i think until the bare bones are addressed in his diet and training theres no need to consider a specialist programme, fact is average joe looking to lose weight doesnt need them as often their diet and training are out of wack, as above.

    However im all for cutting the angles, especially when your diet and training is nailed.

    Alarm bells are ringing constantly here, your intensity in the gym sounds quite low.

    Case in point, ive seen plenty of logs where 300lb+ guys are running the v diet, 6 days no carb, living on protein shakes and flax, its over kill and your using up the advanced tools your going to need later when you hit bigger and bigger walls as you reach your goal.

    It sounds like im tearing this guy apart, but really ive been where he is and im trying to save him time. When i sat myself down, really looked at my diet and became 'aware' of my time spent in the gym the pieces of the puzzle were all too clear.

    My fat ass was not working hard enough.

    As for foods, heres a list ive seen posted many times and i used when i was starting out, its NOT comprehensive but a good starting point to base your diet around.


    ______________________________ ______________________________ _____________

    PROTEINS

    Boneless, Skinless Chicken Breast
    Tuna (water packed)
    Fish (salmon, seabass, halibut)
    Shrimp
    Extra Lean Ground Beef or Ground Round (92-96%)
    Venison
    Buffalo
    Ostrich
    Protein Powder
    Egg Whites or Whole Eggs
    Ribeye Steaks or Roast
    Top Round Steaks or Roast (aka Stew Meat, London Broil, Stir Fry)
    Top Sirloin (aka Sirloin Top Butt)
    Beef Tenderloin (aka Filet, Filet Mignon)
    Top Loin (NY Strip Steak)
    Flank Steak (Sir Fry, Fajita)
    Eye of Round (Cube Meat, Stew Meat, Bottom Round , 96% LeandGround Round)
    Ground turkey, Turkey Breast Slices or cutlets (fresh meat, not deli cuts)
    Soy Burgers
    Low-fat cottage cheese
    Nonfat Greek Yogurt

    SLOW BURNING/COMPLEX CARBS

    Oatmeal (Old Fashioned or Quick Oats)
    Sweet Potatoes (Yams)
    Beans (pinto, black, kidney)
    Oat Bran Cereal
    Rye Cereal
    Grape Nuts
    Brown Rice
    Farina (Cream of Wheat)
    Multigrain Hot Cereal
    Whole wheat or Spinach Pasta
    100% Stoneground Whole Wheat Bread
    Ezekiel Bread
    Hi-Lo Cereal

    FIBROUS CARBS

    Green Leafy Lettuce (Green Leaf, Red, Leaf, Romaine)
    Broccoli
    Asparagus
    String Beans
    Okra
    Spinach
    Bell Peppers
    Brussel Sprouts
    Cauliflower
    Cabbage
    Celery
    Cucumber
    Eggplant
    Green or Red Pepper
    Onions
    Pumpkin
    Garlic
    Tomatoes
    Zucchini

    FRUIT

    Apples
    Grapefruit
    Peaches
    Strawberries
    Blueberries
    Raspberries
    Lemons or Limes
    Pears

    HEALTHY FATS

    Natural Peanut Butter
    Olive Oil or Safflower Oil
    Nuts (peanuts, almonds)
    Flaxseed Oil
    Avocados
    Coconut Oil

    BEVARAGES

    Crystal Light
    Green Tea
    Other Tea (without sugar)
    Coffee (without sugar)

    CONDIMENTS

    Mayonnaise
    Reduced Sodium Soy Sauce
    Reduced Sodium Teriyaki Sauce
    Balsamic Vinegar
    Salsa
    Hot Peppers and Hot Sauce
    Chili powder
    Mrs. Dash
    Steak Sauce
    Sugar Free Maple Syrup
    Chili Paste
    Mustard
    Extracts (vanilla, almond, etc )
    Low Sodium beef or chicken broth
    Plain or reduced sodium tomatoes sauce, puree, paste)
    Stevia (natural sweetener)

    ______________________________ ______________________________ ______________

  5. Quote Originally Posted by 0-hero View Post
    Im a fan of lyles stuff and that diet is great, i agree that carb cycling and the like isnt required here.

    However i think until the bare bones are addressed in his diet and training theres no need to consider a specialist programme, fact is average joe looking to lose weight doesnt need them as often their diet and training are out of wack, as above.

    However im all for cutting the angles, especially when your diet and training is nailed.

    Alarm bells are ringing constantly here, your intensity in the gym sounds quite low.

    Case in point, ive seen plenty of logs where 300lb+ guys are running the v diet, 6 days no carb, living on protein shakes and flax, its over kill and your using up the advanced tools your going to need later when you hit bigger and bigger walls as you reach your goal.

    It sounds like im tearing this guy apart, but really ive been where he is and im trying to save him time. When i sat myself down, really looked at my diet and became 'aware' of my time spent in the gym the pieces of the puzzle were all too clear.

    My fat ass was not working hard enough.

    As for foods, heres a list ive seen posted many times and i used when i was starting out, its NOT comprehensive but a good starting point to base your diet around.


    ______________________________ ______________________________ _____________

    PROTEINS

    Boneless, Skinless Chicken Breast
    Tuna (water packed)
    Fish (salmon, seabass, halibut)
    Shrimp
    Extra Lean Ground Beef or Ground Round (92-96%)
    Venison
    Buffalo
    Ostrich
    Protein Powder
    Egg Whites or Whole Eggs
    Ribeye Steaks or Roast
    Top Round Steaks or Roast (aka Stew Meat, London Broil, Stir Fry)
    Top Sirloin (aka Sirloin Top Butt)
    Beef Tenderloin (aka Filet, Filet Mignon)
    Top Loin (NY Strip Steak)
    Flank Steak (Sir Fry, Fajita)
    Eye of Round (Cube Meat, Stew Meat, Bottom Round , 96% LeandGround Round)
    Ground turkey, Turkey Breast Slices or cutlets (fresh meat, not deli cuts)
    Soy Burgers
    Low-fat cottage cheese
    Nonfat Greek Yogurt

    SLOW BURNING/COMPLEX CARBS

    Oatmeal (Old Fashioned or Quick Oats)
    Sweet Potatoes (Yams)
    Beans (pinto, black, kidney)
    Oat Bran Cereal
    Rye Cereal
    Grape Nuts
    Brown Rice
    Farina (Cream of Wheat)
    Multigrain Hot Cereal
    Whole wheat or Spinach Pasta
    100% Stoneground Whole Wheat Bread
    Ezekiel Bread
    Hi-Lo Cereal

    FIBROUS CARBS

    Green Leafy Lettuce (Green Leaf, Red, Leaf, Romaine)
    Broccoli
    Asparagus
    String Beans
    Okra
    Spinach
    Bell Peppers
    Brussel Sprouts
    Cauliflower
    Cabbage
    Celery
    Cucumber
    Eggplant
    Green or Red Pepper
    Onions
    Pumpkin
    Garlic
    Tomatoes
    Zucchini

    FRUIT

    Apples
    Grapefruit
    Peaches
    Strawberries
    Blueberries
    Raspberries
    Lemons or Limes
    Pears

    HEALTHY FATS

    Natural Peanut Butter
    Olive Oil or Safflower Oil
    Nuts (peanuts, almonds)
    Flaxseed Oil
    Avocados
    Coconut Oil

    BEVARAGES

    Crystal Light
    Green Tea
    Other Tea (without sugar)
    Coffee (without sugar)

    CONDIMENTS

    Mayonnaise
    Reduced Sodium Soy Sauce
    Reduced Sodium Teriyaki Sauce
    Balsamic Vinegar
    Salsa
    Hot Peppers and Hot Sauce
    Chili powder
    Mrs. Dash
    Steak Sauce
    Sugar Free Maple Syrup
    Chili Paste
    Mustard
    Extracts (vanilla, almond, etc )
    Low Sodium beef or chicken broth
    Plain or reduced sodium tomatoes sauce, puree, paste)
    Stevia (natural sweetener)

    ______________________________ ______________________________ ______________
    GREAT!!!!!
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  6. People in the UK in general (I generalise) have a fkg shocking diet - it's no wonder the poor chap has hit a wall. Kudos for getting where he is.

    The only advice I can add is buy organics - it's not too much more expensive in the UK and readily available.

    . . also, vege juices post-workout - check out the link in my sig. - you don't need the supps.

    Good Luck!

  7. ^^ Truth, im from the UK and totally agree, tried to rep but i have to spread it or something before i can.

  8. sorry this is probably coming on late but I had to post something on this topic... your cereal bars are horrible for you im guessing.... probably all refined carbs and converted straight into sugar... which we all know the body can only process 1tbsp of sugar at a time, the rest gets stored as.... FAT! If you want to lose weight you need to eat LEAN meat, lots of protein, you still need to eat fat, but the good fats, from fish peanut butter nuts etc. Your carbs should ALL come from fruits and vegetables, not grains and cereals.... RUN RUN RUN RUN and RUN some more, you'll lose that fat! Don't get liposuction

  9. ^^^carbs from oatmeal are desirable - esp. early in the day or pre WO. And I would moderate the fruit intake due to the fructose content.

  10. Quote Originally Posted by Tone View Post
    Your carbs should ALL come from fruits and vegetables
    Got to take issue with this sorry mate, complex carbs can/do play a vital role in dieting for many people.

    Fruits is ok in moderation but be aware of the kcal content of what your taking in i.e. grapes are much more kcal dense than blueberries.

  11. Yeah, I agree with you in some cases... but not in this one...The guy is trying lose his stomach fat.... I was just pointing out simple rules to follow that will help him lose it... if he is eating oatmeal and getting all his sugar from cereal bars he isn't going to lose it,, IMPO

  12. Quote Originally Posted by Tone View Post
    sorry this is probably coming on late but I had to post something on this topic... your cereal bars are horrible for you im guessing.... probably all refined carbs and converted straight into sugar... which we all know the body can only process 1tbsp of sugar at a time, the rest gets stored as.... FAT! If you want to lose weight you need to eat LEAN meat, lots of protein, you still need to eat fat, but the good fats, from fish peanut butter nuts etc. Your carbs should ALL come from fruits and vegetables, not grains and cereals.... RUN RUN RUN RUN and RUN some more, you'll lose that fat! Don't get liposuction

    Not true. I use at least 2 Tbs of Maltodextrin and 1 Tbs of Dextrose in my workout shake. I've lost 7% BF in the course of 8-9 months doing so, while also gaining muscle.

  13. Quote Originally Posted by jakellpet View Post
    People in the UK in general (I generalise) have a fkg shocking diet - it's no wonder the poor chap has hit a wall. Kudos for getting where he is.

    The only advice I can add is buy organics - it's not too much more expensive in the UK and readily available.

    . . also, vege juices post-workout - check out the link in my sig. - you don't need the supps.

    Good Luck!
    shocking indeed! and i'm the one who ppl take the piss out of for " eating too much" at work. Whos the fat **** though, not me!
    “We are what we repeatedly do. Therefore, excellence is not an act, but a habit.”

  14. Quote Originally Posted by babywifey View Post
    Not true. I use at least 2 Tbs of Maltodextrin and 1 Tbs of Dextrose in my workout shake. I've lost 7% BF in the course of 8-9 months doing so, while also gaining muscle.
    Yeah, Post workout it is a good idea to spike insulin levels because it supresses cortisol. And it burns up quickly...But you shouldn't be spiking your insulin with sugar more than a few times per day. Also Maltodextrina nd detrose are not sucrose which i was talking about..

  15. Quote Originally Posted by Tone View Post
    Yeah, I agree with you in some cases... but not in this one...The guy is trying lose his stomach fat.... I was just pointing out simple rules to follow that will help him lose it... if he is eating oatmeal and getting all his sugar from cereal bars he isn't going to lose it,, IMPO
    Trying to lose his stomach fat? Impossible.

    Spot reduction is a myth as far as i am concerned, sure some topical solutions can reduce sub-q water sitting under the skin but this only gives the illusion of becomming leaner and typically will only show on an already moderately lean person.

    Im not disagreeing with the cereal bars, they are marketing as "healthy" alternatives to a cooked breakfast, and in contrast they are. But your body wont thank you for it when you burn through those simple bond carbs within an hour tops.

    Oatmeal is a complex carb and a slow burner, perfect for breakfast and/or any other time of day.

    I guess what im asking is, why advocate fruit (fructose) which only replenishes liver glycogen but not more complex bonds?

  16. Quote Originally Posted by 0-hero View Post
    Trying to lose his stomach fat? Impossible.

    Spot reduction is a myth as far as i am concerned, sure some topical solutions can reduce sub-q water sitting under the skin but this only gives the illusion of becomming leaner and typically will only show on an already moderately lean person.

    Im not disagreeing with the cereal bars, they are marketing as "healthy" alternatives to a cooked breakfast, and in contrast they are. But your body wont thank you for it when you burn through those simple bond carbs within an hour tops.

    Oatmeal is a complex carb and a slow burner, perfect for breakfast and/or any other time of day.

    I guess what im asking is, why advocate fruit (fructose) which only replenishes liver glycogen but not more complex bonds?


    Because its healthy why else would i eat fruit?

  17. Quote Originally Posted by Tone View Post
    Because its healthy why else would i eat fruit?
    Your spinning it now bro, your trying to twist it to make it look like i said not to eat fruit lol.

    So lets drag it back a little, why advocate fructose yet deter him from complex carbs?

    Does not compute.

  18. Fruits and veggies are very healthy, provide a number of nutrients and health benefits, plus will provide you with carbs that you need. You can get complex carbs through your potatoes, corn, peas, and carrots...I didn't really say complex carbs are bad. Just to stay away from things like cereal bars, and most grains. And don't get me wrong, I love oatmeal, i eat it all the time. Not when I am cutting unwanted stomach fat though. But that is just me, and this is just my opinion. I am not tryin to get into a back and forth arguement by any means. So hopefully you did not take offense to any of my comments.

  19. No mate you got me wrong, im not arguing i love a good debate.

    Doesnt matter what its about, ill debate anything.

    We can agree on one thing though, finding what works for you and more importantly what fits in with your lifestyle is key.

  20. Quote Originally Posted by Tone View Post
    the body can only process 1tbsp of sugar at a time, the rest gets stored as.... FAT!
    this is just false.

    I think a small amount of carbohydrates is essential when cutting to help get the protein in your gut to your muscles. Your body has mechanisms to convert protein into energy (glucogenesis) but its less efficient. For me cutting carbs means reducing carbohydrate intake to a small quantity to things like oatmeal, sweet potato, etc. It helps shuttle protein

  21. Quote Originally Posted by samadhismiles View Post
    this is just false.

    I think a small amount of carbohydrates is essential when cutting to help get the protein in your gut to your muscles. Your body has mechanisms to convert protein into energy (glucogenesis) but its less efficient. For me cutting carbs means reducing carbohydrate intake to a small quantity to things like oatmeal, sweet potato, etc. It helps shuttle protein
    Man i do love sweet pats mmmmm

    Oats or a sweet pat is an OK choice for a carb source PWO but whole foods arent ideal at this time. This is the only time in a clean diet where the good and bad carbs will switch roles

    No im not saying eating a bag of cookies

    Problem is, PWO we can agree we need to deliver a source of protein (Amino acids) to our cells as quickly as possible, yes? Good carbs such as oats, sweet pats, grain breads etc will contain fiber which as we know digests relatively slowly. This makes them a dieters friends of course; usually.

    In short, some argue that if you only take protein in PWO and/or dont deliver protein/carbs within a decent time frame your body may actually break down existing muscle tissue for the purpose of glycogen replenishment.

  22. Hey guys, just reporting back to say that so far so good.

    I've been keeping my carbs between 100 and 150, and I'm planning to reduce them to 100 max in the next 3-4 days (I figured a steady decrease would be better than a sudden crash).

    I'm very pleased to inform that with little snacks of almonds, peanutbutter (just a teaspoon or two) and cottage cheese, I'm not feeling these sugar cravings anymore!

    One question: can I indulge in some low-fat bacon strips? I'm quite partial to them seeing as they don't have any carbs, are full of protein and the low-fat variety only has 4g of fat per 100g, of which only 1.8 saturates.

    I weighed in on Friday, 79kg = 174 pounds. I won't weigh myself again till next week. I'm thinking a week after my diet is fully underway and I've workoued out a few more things.

    Thanks again everyone, I really appreciate it.

  23. These bacon strips how often are we talking?

    Also look in morrisons for something called Quark, i mix sugar free diabetic jam with it and it basically tastes like a muller fruit yogurt but thicker and packed with slow digesting protein.

    Sugar free jelly is also a good one.

  24. Sugar Free Perserves + Cottage Cheese = Best dessert !

  25. I was thinking of having the bacon once a day, for breakfast.

    A packet contains 8 slices, a total of 200g equalling 8g of fat of which 3,6 is saturated, 40g of protein and 240 calories in total.

    That along with a 300g serving of cottage cheese would make a great breakfast.

    In total:


    495 calories
    75g of protein
    15g of carbs (of which 8 are sugars)
    12,5 of fat (of which 6.5 saturates)

    Does that sound like a decent breakfast?
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