Creatine while trying to lose fat/weight? - AnabolicMinds.com

Creatine while trying to lose fat/weight?

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    Creatine while trying to lose fat/weight?


    Alright so i was just wondering should i continue to take creatine if my goal is to slim down im trying to build muscle while trimming fat doing a pretty good job of it at the moment i know creatine adds some water weight so i was wondering is it fine if im just going for apperance and not for a set weight although id like to drop under 200.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jumpshot903 View Post
    Alright so i was just wondering should i continue to take creatine if my goal is to slim down im trying to build muscle while trimming fat doing a pretty good job of it at the moment i know creatine adds some water weight so i was wondering is it fine if im just going for apperance and not for a set weight although id like to drop under 200.
    Keep on the creatine if you've been using it for a while, it might help you maintain your strength. It's definitely not an issue if you're not going for a set weight.
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    Yes, you should continue using it.
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    ethyl ester or mono?-I'm currently taking ethyl ester on my cut, and mono when I bulk
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    Yes it will continue to give recovery benefits as well as help your strength and pumps on a cut.
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    Agreed as above.

    However try not to be ruled by the scales so much when taking mono as water retention may be an issue and mask initial weight loss.
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    I never 'go by the scales'...always the mirror. also not day by day, on a weekly basis will i check my weight on the scale, and thats under the same circumstances (time, what I've ingested, etc)
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    I'm still taking mono right now while I'm cutting up. I'm losing alot of fat fast so I'm trying to do what I can to keep the muscle. I figure ill have a little bloat but when I get around the leanness I want ill stop and drop the excess water weight.
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    I may switch to mono...not sure, any thoughts?
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    Quote Originally Posted by KgTomCat View Post
    I may switch to mono...not sure, any thoughts?
    I've heard so many different opinions about all the creatine's. That's why I just stick with mono. Seems to be the one everyone goes back to and what works. There might be someone who knows some more facts on something better but all the research I've done on here I really never found a definite answer.
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    Mono is tried and tested over decades, it works for many people with a small portion of non-responders (infact i find most of these people expect wayyyy too much from it).

    CEE is relatively new, again not everyone responds, but also ive read some stuff on pubmed and i believe here in the articles section that suggests it is nowhere near as effective as its brother in terms of prolonged use.

    As cmp says above, people will always gravitate back toward what works and that seems to be mono in the majority of cases.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 0-hero View Post
    Mono is tried and tested over decades, it works for many people with a small portion of non-responders (infact i find most of these people expect wayyyy too much from it).

    CEE is relatively new, again not everyone responds, but also ive read some stuff on pubmed and i believe here in the articles section that suggests it is nowhere near as effective as its brother in terms of prolonged use.

    As cmp says above, people will always gravitate back toward what works and that seems to be mono in the majority of cases.
    I respond to both...I have alot of CEE though so I guess Im sticking with that for now. My mono is AST Micronized Creatine
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    Here one such article i refered to regarding why i rate CM over CEE.

    As for "micronized" creatine, the only advantage this has is that it mixes easier.

    ______________________________ ______________________________ __________


    The Creatine Grave Yard
    By Will Brink 2009

    Looks like another “high tech” form of creatine has got one foot planted firmly in the creatine grave yard. What is the creatine graveyard? It’s where forms of creatine - other then monohydrate - go when either science has shown them inferior to monohydrate, and or it’s life cycle of hype has come to and end.

    I refer specifically to creatine ethyl ester (CEE). As with the many “high tech” forms of creatine before it, all manner of claims were/are made about how superior it is to creatine monohydrate (CM). It always starts the same. First the company will invent a long list of negatives about CM such as “poorly absorbed” or “causes bloat” or “is not stable” and then goes onto claim their form of creatine has solved all those invented negatives. The problem is, the data already shows CM does not suffer from virtually any of the negatives they invent, nor do they show their form “cures” those negatives. Sellers of CCE for example claimed CEE was better absorbed and utilized vs. CM, and that has been shown to be nonsense. There have been several in vitro (test tube) studies pointing to the fact CEE is inferior to CM, but a recent study done in humans puts a final nail in the coffin as far as I am concerned. This study is titled “The effects of creatine ethyl ester supplementation combined with heavy resistance training on body composition, muscle performance, and serum and muscle creatine levels” The full study is public access and can be read here:

    CEE Study

    Warning, the abstract is confusing and not well written. If you read the full paper, it’s clearer. If you don’t have the time or interest to read it, the take home is: although all subjects in this study (CEE vs. CM vs. Placebo) experienced approximately the same effects; they all had improvements in bodycomp and got stronger. Why? Because they used untrained subjects in the study. Thus, a drawback of this study was due to using untrained people, they couldn’t differentiate between PL, CEE, and CM in terms of effects on bodycomp and strength within that time period as newbies always make fast progress in the beginning. No news there.

    However, the study did achieve the essential point, which is it clearly showed the claims of CEE false: CEE had much higher creatinine levels and lower muscle creatine levels compared to CM in this study, thus, yet again, the claims by sellers of CEE that it’s superior to CM and that CM is “poorly absorbed” or “causes bloat,” or my favorite “CM is not stable,” etc are false. They also looked at changes in water compartments (CEE actually had a trend toward greater extra cellular water then CM BTW, so there goes that stupid “no bloat” claim for CEE…) and other issues claimed to make CEE superior, and it failed.

    CEE is less stable then CM, increases creatinine to a much greater extent then CM, and is inferior for increasing muscle creatine levels to CM. This study is not perfect by any means, but when combined with what else exists, and the counter studies sellers of CEE offer (which is to say zero), well you don’t have to be a scientist to see the writing on the wall there…

    CEE will be added to the creatine graveyard with a ton of others all claiming to be superior to CM which all started with big claims and now sit in the grave yard.

    Two essential points about the grave yard before we get to that:

    (1) Because they are in the grave yard does not mean they are worthless. Some forms, such as magnesium creatine chelate for example looked promising, but a head to head study with CM found it no better. Remember, another form does not have to show it’s the equal of CM, it has to show it’s superior to CM per its claims. Forms such as creatine pyruvate and many others on the list may be just as effective as CM, but not superior, so it comes down to cost. Others on the list have in fact been proven inferior to CM in studies, such as serum creatine, various liquid creatine versions, and now CEE. Serum creatine was all the rage a few years ago, and studies found not only was it inferior to CM in every respect, it contained virtually no creatine! Of course, there were still those on the various forums using ‘bro logic’ with “bro, I don’t care what the studies say, it works like da bomb for me!” posts, but I digress….Finally, other forms on the list simply lack any data at all to compare to CM. The companies selling these forms will routinely make claims of superiority with nadda for hard data to support them. Therefore, it’s impossible to really separate fact from fiction (i.e., marketing hype) to recommend them.

    Me, I will use what has literally hundreds of studies to support its efficacy and safety over a form with zero data to support it’s claims of superiority over CM. Thus, they get put into the grave yard. Future studies may get them out of the graveyard, but I aint holding my breath…

    (2) CM is not perfect. It’s not very soluble, and in about 30% of users, does not appear to work at all. At higher doses, generally above 3g-5g or so in a single dose, can cause stomach upset for some, among other small, but significant drawbacks for some users. Therefore, I am in favor of continued research into improved delivery technologies, improved forms of creatine, and so on. I’m all for it, but as they say, don’t piss on me and tell me it’s raining. In God we trust, everyone else must show data. Hard data talks, BS walks.

    I could randomly take two forms from the list below, say dicreatine malate and creatine ethyl carbonate ester and make dicreatine malate creatine ethyl carbonate*, but would it be superior to CM? Unknown as there would be no data. I could just invent a bunch of unproven claims like others do and sell the stuff… Do companies just invent a form of creatine for no other reason then it sound “high tech”? Hell, one company (BSN) is currently in court over one form they sell, called CEM3 or “Creatine Ethyl Ester Malate” which according to the charges “does not exist and is impossible to manufacture”! As I said, CM is not perfect and I am all for continued research into improved (vs. just different!) forms of creatine and or improved delivery technologies, but companies should do their due diligence on these products and stop with all the hype and CM bashing to sell unproven products.

    So, without further delay, here is my current list for the creatine graveyard:

    The Creatine Graveyard List:

    Creatine ethyl ester (CEE)
    creatine pyruvate
    creatine taurinate
    creatine ethyl ester malate
    creatine ethyl carbonate ester
    creatine gluconate
    creatine malate
    dicreatine malate
    tricreatine malate
    creatine citrate
    tricreatine citrate
    Kre-Alkalyn
    creatine phosphate
    creatine alpha-ketoglutarate
    creatine-6,8-thioctic Acid-ketoisocaproic Acid Calcium (CREAKIC)
    creatine pyroglutamate
    “conjugated creatine” (Con-Cret)
    magnesium creatine chelate
    creatine anhydrous
    dicreatine orotate
    tricreatine orotate
    creatine alpha-amino butyrate
    creatine HMB
    “titrated creatine”
    “creatine serum”
    “liquid creatine”
    ______________________________ ______________________________ ____________
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    FAIL
    good posting
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    Creatine ethyl ester (CEE)
    creatine pyruvate
    creatine taurinate
    creatine ethyl ester malate
    creatine ethyl carbonate ester
    creatine gluconate
    creatine malate
    dicreatine malate
    tricreatine malate
    creatine citrate
    tricreatine citrate
    Kre-Alkalyn
    creatine phosphate
    creatine alpha-ketoglutarate
    creatine-6,8-thioctic Acid-ketoisocaproic Acid Calcium (CREAKIC)
    creatine pyroglutamate
    “conjugated creatine” (Con-Cret)
    magnesium creatine chelate
    creatine anhydrous
    dicreatine orotate
    tricreatine orotate
    creatine alpha-amino butyrate
    creatine HMB
    “titrated creatine”
    “creatine serum”
    “liquid creatine”
    ....all of which can be found mixed together in certain MuscleTech products
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    Quote Originally Posted by jakellpet View Post
    ....all of which can be found mixed together in certain MuscleTech products
    Dont get me started haha
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    Quote Originally Posted by KgTomCat View Post
    MuscleTech hahahahaha

    I just got 4 jugs of BSN Syntha-6 protein on supplementwarehouse.com for $15.00. yea babayy!
    That's damn tasty protein for sure - good price! . . . but probably not a good idea posting the competition on AM there mate.
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    wtf you damn Americans.

    I love syntha but its 30 quid here for a 1kg tub.

    *shakes fist violently*
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    Quote Originally Posted by KgTomCat View Post
    I dont see any harm...there are no friends in the business world!
    I believe it's against the rules
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    Quote Originally Posted by KgTomCat View Post
    MuscleTech hahahahaha

    I just got 4 jugs of BSN Syntha-6 protein on supplementwarehouse.com for $15.00. yea babayy!
    whoa whoa whoa, care to explain how lol?
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    Yea I looked and they were $30 a piece
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    Dang and I was all excited. But anyway creatine mono while cutting FTW!
    Two weeks before the cuts over cycle off the creatine, and reveal the chizzle. No homo.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theipodpeople View Post
    Dang and I was all excited. But anyway creatine mono while cutting FTW!
    Two weeks before the cuts over cycle off the creatine, and reveal the chizzle. No homo.
    lol. you think 2 weeks will be good enough to lose the water weight? Ive read you can lose a good amount in only 4 or 5 days...
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    Quote Originally Posted by KgTomCat View Post
    lol. you think 2 weeks will be good enough to lose the water weight? Ive read you can lose a good amount in only 4 or 5 days...
    I've always heard its drops in just a few days. I figure a week would probably be good. If your that worried you can always get supps to help you flush the water weight and stuff out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmp007 View Post
    I've always heard its drops in just a few days. I figure a week would probably be good. If your that worried you can always get supps to help you flush the water weight and stuff out.
    true...im using CEE ethyl ester creatine, about to switch to GAT XC4
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    Water manipulation is quite easy, that is if you want to drop water your holding it can be done using numerous methods / tools.

    I wouldnt worry about it and let it come off naturally.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KgTomCat View Post
    true...im using CEE ethyl ester creatine, about to switch to GAT XC4
    Yeah probably a week would be fine. I don't really use anything but mono since I respond so well to it. it does cause minor bloat for me especially with a few carbs, but when coming off of it waking up and looking in the mirror is that much better.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theipodpeople View Post
    Yeah probably a week would be fine. I don't really use anything but mono since I respond so well to it. it does cause minor bloat for me especially with a few carbs, but when coming off of it waking up and looking in the mirror is that much better.
    o, well I've never really used ethyl ester until now, so yea...
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