FIRST CUT...I'M GOING KETO, OPINIONS & CRITICISM PLEASE

[WILL DA BEAST]

I'm 5' 9.5" @ 175 and i'm guesstimating I have about 15% bodyfat. Been reading the forums here and other places and I've decided ketogenic because from what I hear it's one of the best/quickest ways to lose fat.

1.) I plan to take 2275 Calories per day, that's 13 Calories per lb of bodyweight. Is this too much?

Comes out to:

165g Fat--65%
171g Protein--30%
29g Carbs--5%

2.) My workouts are as follows:

Mon: Shoulders/Traps/Calves
Tues: Back
Wed: Off
Thurs: Legs/Calves
Fri: Chest
Sat: Bi's Tri's Calves

I'm expecting to be pretty run down from the keto diet, but I should try and keep my lifts up in weight right? Any comments?

3.) Sunday will be my refeed day, I know carbs should be increased dramatically to shock my body for the next week but how many grams would you guys recommend? Also, are the carbs supposed to be all for my last meal of the day or spread out? Last these should be "good" carbs such as brown rice and sweet potatoes right?

4.) I'm ordering orange triad and will be buying keto strips to make sure i'm ketogenic. And plan on taking a fiber supp cuz i don't wanna get constipated.

5.) Did I forget anything??

 

[WILL DA BEAST]

bumpity bumb...any help guys? this is my first keto diet

 

[TEAR57]

Simple sugars in the beginning of your refeed then as you move through the day move into more complex carbs. I am not a keto pro but I have had people suggest as much as 800 grams of carbs on your refeed day. I would guess if you could throw down 600 you would be in good shape.
I would drop weight and increase reppage on your lifts especially at first because if you are not careful it is pretty easy to destroy what muscle you have as your body gets into the spin of keto.
The first few days of Keto are very uncomfortable and you may very possibly lose friends because of being edgy, but as your body moves into keto your mood and energy should move back into a comfortable area.
Dude good freakin idea with the fiber, unless you are ok pooping pine cones then extra fiber on Keto is an absolute must.

 

[Carcaya]

good advice from tear,

1 cals could be a little lower, but that is not bad.

3 refeed start with simple, end complex. spread it out over the 24 hours.

listen to your body on anything else. remember your vitamins.

 

[jtp217]

good advice from tear,

1 cals could be a little lower, but that is not bad.

3 refeed start with simple, end complex. spread it out over the 24 hours.

listen to your body on anything else. remember your vitamins.

That may not necessarily be a good idea. If you are wanting to get back into ketosis as fast as possible I would w/ high GI foods all the way.

Ending w/ complex carbs is going to give you a steady stream of glucose for several hours after you are done w/ the refeed. With some thing like a 24hr refeed rock the high GI all the way through so that after your last meal the insulin spike it causes will clear most all of your glucose out of your system quickly and allow you to get back into ketosis faster.

 

[EasyEJL]

from what I hear it's one of the best/quickest ways to lose fat.

thats fictional it may help you manage to loose fat while retaining muscle better at lower calories, but if you are within 500 cals of maintenance then the difference is marginal

1.) I plan to take 2275 Calories per day, that's 13 Calories per lb of bodyweight. Is this too much?

Comes out to:

165g Fat--65%
171g Protein--30%
29g Carbs--5%

looks good, assuming you are cautious and count all the trace carbs first

2.) My workouts are as follows:

Mon: Shoulders/Traps/Calves
Tues: Back
Wed: Off
Thurs: Legs/Calves
Fri: Chest
Sat: Bi's Tri's Calves

I'm expecting to be pretty run down from the keto diet, but I should try and keep my lifts up in weight right? Any comments?

yeah, how run down you feel or not is pretty individual, so go for it.

3.) Sunday will be my refeed day, I know carbs should be increased dramatically to shock my body for the next week but how many grams would you guys recommend? Also, are the carbs supposed to be all for my last meal of the day or spread out? Last these should be "good" carbs such as brown rice and sweet potatoes right?

should spread em out, i prefer still clean carbs but some amount of less clean is ok. important to keep in mind is that you can reduce protein a little too for these days, and you definitely need to kick fats down

4.) I'm ordering orange triad and will be buying keto strips to make sure i'm ketogenic. And plan on taking a fiber supp cuz i don't wanna get constipated.

5.) Did I forget anything??

the other plus of a fiber supp is feeling full, because fat in the absence of carbs doesn't always produce that sensation all that well.

 

[Carcaya]

That may not necessarily be a good idea. If you are wanting to get back into ketosis as fast as possible I would w/ high GI foods all the way.

Ending w/ complex carbs is going to give you a steady stream of glucose for several hours after you are done w/ the refeed. With some thing like a 24hr refeed rock the high GI all the way through so that after your last meal the insulin spike it causes will clear most all of your glucose out of your system quickly and allow you to get back into ketosis faster.

I definitely see what you are saying.

There may be a few pros to ending complex. If he is going to just refeed on Sunday, it will be more like an 18 hour refeed since he is going to have to sleep. Having the complex may extend that to a 24 hour period allowing him to carb saturate for the whole duration.

He would get back into ketosis faster with the high GI. I just find that if I don't get adequate carbohydrates during refeed I lose motivation on ckd quickly.

 

[jtp217]

I definitely see what you are saying.

There may be a few pros to ending complex. If he is going to just refeed on Sunday, it will be more like an 18 hour refeed since he is going to have to sleep. Having the complex may extend that to a 24 hour period allowing him to carb saturate for the whole duration.

He would get back into ketosis faster with the high GI. I just find that if I don't get adequate carbohydrates during refeed I lose motivation on ckd quickly.

Using all high GI carbs will allow for more total carbs to be taken in during that 18 hour period he's actually eating.

The lower GI may keep some glucose in his system for several hours while he's sleeping but if he's not full from the first 18 hours then 50-100g of low GI carbs before bed isn't going to trick either.

 

[p00ndawg]

Using all high GI carbs will allow for more total carbs to be taken in during that 18 hour period he's actually eating.

The lower GI may keep some glucose in his system for several hours while he's sleeping but if he's not full from the first 18 hours then 50-100g of low GI carbs before bed isn't going to trick either.

after his depletion, simple sugars are a must. Gatorade is a mans best friend. Complex carbs come shortly after.

 

[EasyEJL]

I've never used simple sugars in a carbup fructose was the simplest, and even that was from 100% juice or apples

 

[p00ndawg]

I've never used simple sugars in a carbup fructose was the simplest, and even that was from 100% juice or apples

I tried it this past weekend on friday and saturday, I have to say my sunday workout was amazing.

 

[jtp217]

after his depletion, simple sugars are a must. Gatorade is a mans best friend. Complex carbs come shortly after.

I've never used simple sugars in a carbup fructose was the simplest, and even that was from 100% juice or apples

I tried it this past weekend on friday and saturday, I have to say my sunday workout was amazing.

Were these for a refeed (as part of a keto diet) or for a basic high carb day?

 

[p00ndawg]

Were these for a refeed (as part of a keto diet) or for a basic high carb day?

refeed for me.

 

[EasyEJL]

refeed for me as well but i'm not very big on simple sugars at any point. other than in ice cream

 

[p00ndawg]

refeed for me as well but i'm not very big on simple sugars at any point. other than in ice cream

I went this route as well once and had good results also.

 

[jtp217]

What was your average weight loss after each refeed and how many carbs did you take in?

 

[p00ndawg]

What was your average weight loss after each refeed and how many carbs did you take in?

Im not sure total carbs but here was my latest diet saturday refeed. This was day after depletion. I gained 2 lbs on the refeed, so with 2lbs gained have lost about 3 lbs total from 194 original weight. But im losing about 2-4 lbs before the refeed.

2 1/2 slices of wheat bread

1 potato with 1 cup cottage cheese

6 slices of pizza, ripped off cheese and pepperonis.

3 32 oz powerades

assorted vegetables and cottage cheese dip

4 cups (cooked) brown rice

1 potato with rice and cottage cheese dip

32 oz gatorade

 

[jtp217]

Im not sure total carbs but here was my latest diet saturday refeed. This was day after depletion. I gained 2 lbs on the refeed, so with 2lbs gained have lost about 3 lbs total from 194 original weight. But im losing about 2-4 lbs before the refeed.

2 1/2 slices of wheat bread

1 potato with 1 cup cottage cheese

6 slices of pizza, ripped off cheese and pepperonis.

3 32 oz powerades

assorted vegetables and cottage cheese dip

4 cups (cooked) brown rice

1 potato with rice and cottage cheese dip

32 oz gatorade

Which version of the keto diet are you using? Was it Lyle Mcd or someone elses? Also have you tried using high GI carb sources for most or your entire refeed?

I'm really not trying to be a **** or anything, I'm just curious.

 

[jtp217]

Also, why use carb drinks instead of solid food?

 

[WILL DA BEAST]

glad i had most of it in order. i'm really looking forward to shedding this fat as i've never had a crisp 6pack yet. question tho...

i'm wondering about PWO. I usually take 50g protein shake w/ 20oz gatorate and a bannana or two. since i'm watching my carbs on keto do i need to get rid of the PWO carbs? and if i do keep them do I factor them into my daily carb intake?

also, how long should i run this diet for? i'm thinking starting at the end of march and going until end of may/first couple weeks of summer.

 

[jtp217]

glad i had most of it in order. i'm really looking forward to shedding this fat as i've never had a crisp 6pack yet. question tho...

i'm wondering about PWO. I usually take 50g protein shake w/ 20oz gatorate and a bannana or two. since i'm watching my carbs on keto do i need to get rid of the PWO carbs? and if i do keep them do I factor them into my daily carb intake?

also, how long should i run this diet for? i'm thinking starting at the end of march and going until end of may/first couple weeks of summer.

Run it as long as you need to. W/ keto diets, as long as you do them right, you should see changes pretty quick.

Don't worry about carbs postworkout. Just eat your next planned meal. What type of training are you going to use?

 

[p00ndawg]

Which version of the keto diet are you using? Was it Lyle Mcd or someone elses? Also have you tried using high GI carb sources for most or your entire refeed?

I'm really not trying to be a **** or anything, I'm just curious.

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/nutrition-health/99929-ck-anabolic-diet.html

dont worry I can tell you're just curious. most of your questions are answered on first page.

But thats the diet im going through, not sure if we talking about the same one.

Oh and here are my 1st month progress pics.

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/pics/117778-1-month-progress.html

 

[WILL DA BEAST]

Run it as long as you need to. W/ keto diets, as long as you do them right, you should see changes pretty quick.

Don't worry about carbs postworkout. Just eat your next planned meal. What type of training are you going to use?

so just protein postworkout then?

and my training split is in my first post...i usually go for 8-12 reps and do a burnout for my very last set typically. i've heard I should do more (15-20) reps, but also heard that I should keep it at 10-12 to keep as much strength as possible. what's recommended?

 

[EasyEJL]

yeah, if you are doing a CKD then no purposeful carbs other than refeed day. a TKD allows for a moderate amount of carbs pre or post workout, but no refeed day...

 

[WILL DA BEAST]

which would you all say is better, TKD or CKD?? pros cons?

 

[EasyEJL]

well, its kind of a personal thing, depends on how well you function + work out with minimal carbs in you. I'm ok with it, so a CKD is fine. I feel I can loose weight slightly better with a TKD as I never really have the huge carbup/refeed

 

[p00ndawg]

well, its kind of a personal thing, depends on how well you function + work out with minimal carbs in you. I'm ok with it, so a CKD is fine. I feel I can loose weight slightly better with a TKD as I never really have the huge carbup/refeed

yea for me im extremely carb sensitive, which is why I went with ckd.

 

[jtp217]

so just protein postworkout then?

and my training split is in my first post...i usually go for 8-12 reps and do a burnout for my very last set typically. i've heard I should do more (15-20) reps, but also heard that I should keep it at 10-12 to keep as much strength as possible. what's recommended?

During a keto diet you endurance is going to in the toilet due to not having jack for glycogen stores. I usually do higher weight/lower rep training w/ depletion workout before the carb up.

 

[jtp217]

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/nutrition-health/99929-ck-anabolic-diet.html

dont worry I can tell you're just curious. most of your questions are answered on first page.

But thats the diet im going through, not sure if we talking about the same one.

Oh and here are my 1st month progress pics.

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/pics/117778-1-month-progress.html

I haven't read the entire thread yet, but, from what I have seen in there they are advocating a long carb load w/ high GI carbs throughout the first 24hours and then anything longer moving to the startchier foods like pasta and potatoes.

So why then would you use primarily powerade, wheat bread, and potatoes for only a 12-24 hour refeed?

 

[p00ndawg]

I haven't read the entire thread yet, but, from what I have seen in there they are advocating a long carb load w/ high GI carbs throughout the first 24hours and then anything longer moving to the startchier foods like pasta and potatoes.

So why then would you use primarily powerade, wheat bread, and potatoes for only a 12-24 hour refeed?

oh I started it the day before. that was my finisher. The day before I had like 120 oz of gatorade and more wheatbread so it was actually a 36 hour refeed.

And I had kinda messed up, because where I ate pizza it was supposed to have been pasta, and lots of it. but it was my cousins birthday and they had a party at some pizza place so I had to do the best I could.

Oh and I really wanted potatoes lol. I missed them, I hadnt eaten any potato product in like 2 months or so.

Another user tho recommended also recommended me to use lots of gatorade. I tried it out and it made a huge difference the day after my refeed when I went to workout. Actually, my whole weeks worth of workouts has been a lot better. This although was the first time I did the refeed in this fashion. So lots of factors could be involved for me feeling this good this week, gotta try it again this friday and saturday and see how it goes. I already got low fat lasagna lined up .

 

[p00ndawg]

I haven't read the entire thread yet, but, from what I have seen in there they are advocating a long carb load w/ high GI carbs throughout the first 24hours and then anything longer moving to the startchier foods like pasta and potatoes.

So why then would you use primarily powerade, wheat bread, and potatoes for only a 12-24 hour refeed?

oh I started it the day before. that was my finisher. The day before I had like 120 oz of gatorade and more wheatbread.

And I had kinda messed up, because where I ate pizza it was supposed to have been pasta, and lots of it. but it was my cousins birthday and they had a party at some pizza place so I had to do the best I could.

Oh and I really wanted potatoes lol. I missed them, I hadnt eaten any potato product in like 2 months or so.

Another user tho recommended also recommended me to use lots of gatorade. I tried it out and it made a huge difference the day after my refeed when I went to workout. Actually, my whole weeks worth of workouts has been a lot better. This although was the first time I did the refeed in this fashion. So lots of factors could be involved for me feeling this good this week, gotta try it again this friday and saturday and see how it goes. I already got low fat lasagna lined up .

But if you have any suggestions or recommendations for my next refeed please post it up! Maybe even a sample refeed would be great too. Im very open to suggestions, because im still very new to this stuff.

 

[ThomasRivera]

Smarties are dextrose stamped candies, they can be crushed up and used as sugar basically. Pasta, rice and beans, tortillas, tacos with chicken and low fat cheese. A good way to spice up toast is garlic bread of course, you don't have to pour on the olive oil or butter either, the garlic will take care of itself. You can toast up a loaf of bread, caramalize onions with garlic and smear it on.

 

[jtp217]

Another user tho recommended also recommended me to use lots of gatorade. I tried it out and it made a huge difference the day after my refeed when I went to workout. Actually, my whole weeks worth of workouts has been a lot better. This although was the first time I did the refeed in this fashion. So lots of factors could be involved for me feeling this good this week, gotta try it again this friday and saturday and see how it goes. I already got low fat lasagna lined up .

So what did you take out and replace the gatorade with?

Also, how much water were/are you consuming during your refeeds?

 

[EasyEJL]

During a keto diet you endurance is going to in the toilet due to not having jack for glycogen stores. I usually do higher weight/lower rep training w/ depletion workout before the carb up.

this is a maybe, not a guarantee. it affects different people differently. I dont loose any endurance on a CKD, even the day before refeed.

 

[ThomasRivera]

this is a maybe, not a guarantee. it affects different people differently. I dont loose any endurance on a CKD, even the day before refeed.

"Impaired physical performance is a common but not obligate result of a low carbohydrate diet. Lessons from traditional Inuit culture indicate that time for adaptation, optimized sodium and potassium nutriture, and constraint of protein to 15–25 % of daily energy expenditure allow unimpaired endurance performance despite nutritional ketosis.
Introduction"

http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/1/1/2

I feel more energetic on the CKD diet. I don't have the same ability to perform repetitive powerful movements, but over all endurance for me improves.

 

[EasyEJL]

from what i've non-scientifically seen, there is some correlation between your average daily carb intake (plus type of carbs) while not on a ketogenic diet, and performance loss while on ketogenic. While not on a keto (and not on a bulk) my daily intake is from 100-200g of carbs, with half coming from fructose from either 100% juice or just fruits. Whereas i know a guy who eats around 500-600g of mixed complex + simple carbs a day normally with none of it fructose, and he's ready to pass out on day 2 of a keto

 

[p00ndawg]

So what did you take out and replace the gatorade with?

Also, how much water were/are you consuming during your refeeds?

water about a gallon or so, not including all the gatorade. Before it was just bread and pasta, I think I was doing my refeed worse. I was eating spaghetti and like ice cream, or pies, beer, or burgers. I was eating too much fat I think before.

 

[EasyEJL]

either of you guys read any of the actual books on the ketogenic diets?

 

[p00ndawg]

either of you guys read any of the actual books on the ketogenic diets?

reading, LOL.

jk jk, naw I havent. I usually just come to the forums, read peoples opinions, and then try the stuff out and see how it goes. Then I just do what seems to benefit me the most based on trying out the collective suggestions of many of the users here.

Probably not the best approach, but its working out alright so far.

 

[EasyEJL]

yeah, well for ketogenic diets specifically you should read some of the direct scientific works, rather than base it on what other guys remember of what they read of what other guys remembered of what they read

 

[p00ndawg]

yeah, well for ketogenic diets specifically you should read some of the direct scientific works, rather than base it on what other guys remember of what they read of what other guys remembered of what they read

oh no, no way, once someone starts talking about what they read I usually skip those posts. I tend to listen peoples experience with what worked well for them. You know, like some of the peeps already been through the ketogenic diet several times, so the way I see it, why waste time going through the motions trying to find out how to change something, when someone already did the work for me.

I am definitely working through and trying to read some of the material to validate some of the claims and also to try and understand why some things are needed to be done that way.

Its just hard, college ftl.

 

[Wilderbeast]

thats fictional it may help you manage to loose fat while retaining muscle better at lower calories, but if you are within 500 cals of maintenance then the difference is marginal.

I actually disagree with you here Easy. This statement depends on the individal and their individual body type / metabolism.

I happen to be hereditarily insulin resistant, so carbs are terrible for me. Even if I keep less total calories (same amount of protein) while eating carbohydrates compared to slightly higher amounts of total calories while on a ketogenic diet, I lose more total fat and weight on the keto diet.

If you listen to Dr. Scott Connelly at all you would hear him over and over again say that the idea that weight and fat loss are about total caloric load regardless of macronutrient composition is "bullshit."

Ketogenic diets simply work better for some people, myself included. You have to find what works for you, and not buy into "this is better for everyone" nonsense.

BEAST

 

[EasyEJL]

I actually disagree with you here Easy. This statement depends on the individal and their individual body type / metabolism.

I happen to be hereditarily insulin resistant, so carbs are terrible for me. Even if I keep less total calories (same amount of protein) while eating carbohydrates compared to slightly higher amounts of total calories while on a ketogenic diet, I lose more total fat and weight on the keto diet.

If you listen to Dr. Scott Connelly at all you would hear him over and over again say that the idea that weight and fat loss are about total caloric load regardless of macronutrient composition is "bullshit."

Ketogenic diets simply work better for some people, myself included. You have to find what works for you, and not buy into "this is better for everyone" nonsense.

BEAST

True, my statement was meant as "other health issues aside" even tho I didn't say it and also particularly aimed at WillDaBeast, who obviously doesn't have carb issues based on his normal intake.

Although I disagree with Dr Connelly, total caloric load is total caloric load in individuals with no other health issues, and a daily diet of above USRDA protein plus necessary EFA levels could consist of the same amount of calories from either fats protein or carbs and the persons difference in gains or losses would be minimal based on the caloric source assuming a +- < 500 calories a day. That said, are calories figured inappropriately for certain foods? you bet

 

[WILL DA BEAST]

i'm trying to find lyle's book on the keto diet..but no place around here sells it. i may have to buy offline. but i usually read other peoples outcomes and stuff and kinda alter what i do according to that.

so as far as my depletion workout...it should be the last workout before my refeed, and be a total body draining workout with 3-4 circuits of 1 exercise per body part taken to failure?

 

[p00ndawg]

i'm trying to find lyle's book on the keto diet..but no place around here sells it. i may have to buy offline. but i usually read other peoples outcomes and stuff and kinda alter what i do according to that.

so as far as my depletion workout...it should be the last workout before my refeed, and be a total body draining workout with 3-4 circuits of 1 exercise per body part taken to failure?

It depends on what you do to be honest. Ive seen several people depletions and the only consistent part of all them is that they are high rep, low weight and full body.

So from what Ive seen you've got some lee way with what you would like to do for a depletion.

 

[ThomasRivera]

i'm trying to find lyle's book on the keto diet..but no place around here sells it. i may have to buy offline. but i usually read other peoples outcomes and stuff and kinda alter what i do according to that.

so as far as my depletion workout...it should be the last workout before my refeed, and be a total body draining workout with 3-4 circuits of 1 exercise per body part taken to failure?

I've always gone 12-15 reps when I do depletions. Don't buy the book, you can download them. Here you go.

 

[vadox6466]

..you mean that's not you in your avatar?

 

[WILL DA BEAST]

I've always gone 12-15 reps when I do depletions. Don't buy the book, you can download them. Here you go.

ahh, much appreicated. i really wasn't looking forward to shelling out hard earned dough for it. REPPED!

 

[ThomasRivera]

ahh, much appreicated. i really wasn't looking forward to shelling out hard earned dough for it. REPPED!

Yeah, I wouldn't want to spend money on information I can find free on the internet either.

 

[WILL DA BEAST]

..you mean that's not you in your avatar?

ROFL!!....not yet:dunno: