- 02-18-2009, 08:13 PM
- 02-18-2009, 08:21 PM
There are a ton of topics with this info in it...
However I do like your idea, it would be nice to have a thread with the answers to your info it in, maybe you can search for the answers and put a FAQ together!
- 02-18-2009, 08:33 PM
02-18-2009, 08:44 PM
A. High fat intake initially
B. Keeping carbs down
C. Training appropriately (by that I mean no half assed training)
D. Leucine is ketogenic and can help raise the levels of ketones which can be helpful initially
02-21-2009, 01:38 AM
02-21-2009, 02:35 AM
02-21-2009, 04:42 AM
02-21-2009, 07:55 AM
first time it can take even longer. if you were in ketosis but came out over a single meal or even single day, you can generally be back in pretty quickly, within a day
02-21-2009, 09:13 PM
02-21-2009, 09:27 PM
Gluconeogenisis occurs regularly both in and out of ketosis. The only time I can see you getting knocked out of ketosis is by poor insulin sesnsivity or your diabeteic. Othere wise it too much protein or gluconeogenis won't knock you out ketosis
02-21-2009, 11:54 PM
doing my own thang!
02-22-2009, 03:24 AM
Maybe I should have wrote it "According to Lyle McDonald in his book "The Ketogenic diet" Protein has an up to 58 percent rate of conversion into glucose beyond intake which is required to maintain nitrogen balance so too much protein can disrupt ketosis"
Here too basically says the same thing.
"Dr. Eric Westman from Duke University says the studies he has seen say for every 2g of dietary protein consumed, one gram of it is converted to glucose/sugar/carbs."
I wrote that higher protein causes a higher rate of gluconeogenisis not that the process itself at even a small level is to be avoided. Glucose doesn't just exist in the form of sugar, even small percentages of fat can be turned into glucose. Too much glucose no matter what the source will remove a person from ketosis. Sugar does have the added edge of fructose, which will stall ketosis as well in too high amounts.
02-22-2009, 03:59 AM
doing my own thang!
02-22-2009, 08:12 AM
But as far as meals go, someone taking in 50+g of protein in a single meal could have as much of 20-30g of it converted to glucose thru gluconeogenesis, which is likely enough to kick you out of ketosis.
02-22-2009, 11:13 AM
Easy way to do it is check your blood sugar. If it remains steady then your still in ketosis. But the fat you consume with the maels slows down the process of digestion. That was not taken into consideration at any point of this debate
02-22-2009, 11:19 AM
yeah, that is quite true, there are so many variables that havent been studied. But someone who pops a no-fat added 50g whey isolate shake post workout is fairly likely to pop out of ketosis imo.
02-22-2009, 12:47 PM
Yea but even with that whey isolate only post worlout you insulin sensitivity is much graeter and should not effect ketosis
02-22-2009, 12:56 PM
02-22-2009, 01:19 PM
If you train high intensity and use GDAs you can be in ketosis in about 3-5 daus. Other wise it has taken me upwards of 12 days
02-22-2009, 01:28 PM
The 58% conversion rate of protein-glucose is referencing the liver's pathway of gluconeogenesis, that being the alanine-glucose pathway. There are seventeen amino-acids which are considered glucogenic [ability to convert to glucose] but alanine is the only amino-acid which the liver can directly convert to glucose; the others are first deaminated into intermediates of the Krebs/TCA, and then can be reanimated into alanine. Essentially, this means that using protein sources high in leucine, isoleucine, valine and so on and so on is unlikely to remove one from Ketosis via excessive gluconeogenesis. This characterizes BCAA as a valuable asset during Ketosis - one can supplement dietary intake of whole-food protein with "between-meal" BCAA intake!
02-22-2009, 02:01 PM
02-22-2009, 04:16 PM
I am getting a bit confused here. Isn't this diet based mainly on fat and protein intake with the elimination of carbs? Thus your diet is practically all protein and fat......and from what I remember with atkins to get to keto you were allowed as much protein as you wanted.
02-22-2009, 04:36 PM
there are flaws with atkins
the fat should be different and portions still have to be "normal" just because you can eat 36 ounces of steak doesnt mean you should.
02-22-2009, 06:05 PM
02-24-2009, 09:50 PM
02-24-2009, 09:52 PM
what kind of weekly weight loss is typical with ketosis? 2 - 3 pounds safely before being concerned of muscle loss?
02-24-2009, 10:03 PM
02-24-2009, 10:42 PM
You're keto on the anabolic diet, aren't you? What's the deal with the protein intake then, doesn't that kind of conflict?
02-24-2009, 10:45 PM
02-24-2009, 10:58 PM
02-25-2009, 09:30 AM
its a bouncy carb diet so although there are low carb days, and its possible for you to go into ketosis during it, that isn't its primary goal and it doesn't fail if you dont reach ketosis. its more about optimizing hormones
02-27-2009, 03:48 PM
03-09-2009, 12:27 PM
I think ketogenic diets are misnomers, mainly because the actual amount of ketones utilized on AD or other CKD diets doesn't come close to matching the calorie expenditure of FFA's.
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