Master Thread: Cutting - Followup Question

[MF210]

This was a good thread and I didn't want to hi-jack it with my personal question.

My one goal that I've never achieved is getting down to 5% bodyfat. I've been in the 9-10% range for the past 10 years (on average). I decided to start educating myself so I can achieve this final goal just to see what I look like.

I may have over analyzed that thread, but I was left very confused. I went through the BMR calc and Harris Benedict Equation and came to the conclusion that my daily maintenance is ~3,200 calories. Therefore, I shouldn't dip below 2,700 days to ensure that I don't burn lean mass.

Simple enough, but then I read about the CKD and TKD diets that enable the body to go into a state of ketosis by restricting carbs to 30-50g/day. You following me here? This is where my mind began to wander to this sample analysis:

In order to achieve ketosis, you can basically only have 2 ounces of dry oats per day. This is less than 200 calories. Therefore if I need at least 2,700 calories ED to prevent muscle loss, that would mean consuming 5.7 POUNDS of chicken breast per day, with two ounces of oats!

Also equivalent to:
Calories: 2,700
Fat: 60g
Carbs: 34g
Protein: 522g

Then I read a few quotes from the well respected administrator and mods like the following:

BMR and BMI are junk.

Based on my example above, I definitely agree with B5150.

That still leaves me with the ultimate question, how do I drop my 10% bodyfat down to 5% while sparing the absolute least amount of LBM as possible.

I hope you enjoy my research above and look forward to your replies.

 

[TripDog]

My lowest was 4.3 taken by my teacher at the National Personal Training Institute. I will say I felt like ass all the time, as when u try to maintain that low, it messes with your head.

I never followed a fad diet thing like you posted, I always do my own thing with all aspects of my training. I dont follow any one trend, and that makes it fun for me.

Yes bmi is fukcin retarded, never follow that method.

Diet and cardio are your key. If you want it bad enough it will happen. I cant even begin to tell you the horror stories in my training where I threw up often after fasted cardio, and the mental anguish that comes with the teritory.

Its not a "fun" way to live, just let me tell you that ahead of time. In the 5-6% range.

Stims are a must when carbs become low, or life is not an option. Energy is just not there, when doing it natural without hormones and what not.

 

[EasyEJL]

In order to achieve ketosis, you can basically only have 2 ounces of dry oats per day. This is less than 200 calories. Therefore if I need at least 2,700 calories ED to prevent muscle loss, that would mean consuming 5.7 POUNDS of chicken breast per day, with two ounces of oats!

Also equivalent to:
Calories: 2,700
Fat: 60g
Carbs: 34g
Protein: 522g

you'd never achieve ketosis eating like that. on a ckd you would if training hard take in somewhere between .8 - 1g per lb of protein. so at the upper end, say 205g. so 239g of carbs + protein = 956 cals, from 2700 that leaves 1744 cals from fats, or around 193g. so you'd need to raise fat intake by around 130g over what you have there. easy to do, coconut oil, olive oil, etc. also making some of your carb intake be from eating raw unsalted nuts.

 

[MF210]

I'm not sure these diets are right for me. For some reason, it kind of feels like it might be a diet for obese people who are simply wanting to lose fat.

I just want to rip out from an already lean physique. I think the best thing for me would probably be to evaluate my current diet, and average out my daily consumption of calories, carbs, protein, and fats over a week's time.

Then whatever my % of calories from carbs are, I'll cut that by 10% and replace that with protein. I figure if I do that, as well as cut my calories down by 200-300, that should be a good start and I can just play it by ear and see how my body reacts.

 

[ThomasRivera]

This was a good thread and I didn't want to hi-jack it with my personal question.

My one goal that I've never achieved is getting down to 5% bodyfat. I've been in the 9-10% range for the past 10 years (on average). I decided to start educating myself so I can achieve this final goal just to see what I look like.

I may have over analyzed that thread, but I was left very confused. I went through the BMR calc and Harris Benedict Equation and came to the conclusion that my daily maintenance is ~3,200 calories. Therefore, I shouldn't dip below 2,700 days to ensure that I don't burn lean mass.

Simple enough, but then I read about the CKD and TKD diets that enable the body to go into a state of ketosis by restricting carbs to 30-50g/day. You following me here? This is where my mind began to wander to this sample analysis:

In order to achieve ketosis, you can basically only have 2 ounces of dry oats per day. This is less than 200 calories. Therefore if I need at least 2,700 calories ED to prevent muscle loss, that would mean consuming 5.7 POUNDS of chicken breast per day, with two ounces of oats!

Also equivalent to:
Calories: 2,700
Fat: 60g
Carbs: 34g
Protein: 522g

Then I read a few quotes from the well respected administrator and mods like the following:



Based on my example above, I definitely agree with B5150.

That still leaves me with the ultimate question, how do I drop my 10% bodyfat down to 5% while sparing the absolute least amount of LBM as possible.

I hope you enjoy my research above and look forward to your replies.

The general number to use is 20-30. Its possible to go up around 50 or slightly higher but it takes some time tinkering around with the diet and understanding your body to figure out your upper limit.

Your numbers are wrong. CKD and TKD are not high protein diets, the majority of caloric intake on a CKD diet is fat. The numbers should be ~60-70 fat and around 30-40 percent protein along with 20-30 carbs.

On CKD diets a person wouldn't eat oats as their main source of carbohydrate, its better to get in a mixture of vegetables.

I'm not sure these diets are right for me. For some reason, it kind of feels like it might be a diet for obese people who are simply wanting to lose fat.

I just want to rip out from an already lean physique. I think the best thing for me would probably be to evaluate my current diet, and average out my daily consumption of calories, carbs, protein, and fats over a week's time.

Then whatever my % of calories from carbs are, I'll cut that by 10% and replace that with protein. I figure if I do that, as well as cut my calories down by 200-300, that should be a good start and I can just play it by ear and see how my body reacts.

Keto diets are good ways to rip out bodyfat and maintain muscle as long as you know how to actually do one.

 

[EasyEJL]

On CKD diets a person wouldn't eat oats as their main source of carbohydrate, its better to get in a mixture of vegetables.

Keto diets are good ways to rip out bodyfat and maintain muscle as long as you know how to actually do one.

I'm not sure these diets are right for me. For some reason, it kind of feels like it might be a diet for obese people who are simply wanting to lose fat.

I just want to rip out from an already lean physique. I think the best thing for me would probably be to evaluate my current diet, and average out my daily consumption of calories, carbs, protein, and fats over a week's time.

Then whatever my % of calories from carbs are, I'll cut that by 10% and replace that with protein. I figure if I do that, as well as cut my calories down by 200-300, that should be a good start and I can just play it by ear and see how my body reacts.

I agree with what he said, but you are right in some ways as well. Not the "diet for obese people" part, it largely comes from studies done on children who have seizures. For whatever reason (i can't recall right now), when the body is running on ketones they have less seizures. Later on other groups including bodybuilders as well as fatties adopted it as it is effective for making the body use fat as its first source of fuel, rather than protein. However, if you are still iffy about it or dont believe it (or dont think you can religiously follow it) then your approach is probably better for you

 

[MF210]

However, if you are still iffy about it or dont believe it (or dont think you can religiously follow it) then your approach is probably better for you

Yeah, I don't see any logical reason why my approach wouldn't work, so I'll give that a whirl first.

I might be able to experiment with the other diet later in life, but if I were to jump into it now, I think it would fukc my world up (-: I'd have insomnia from lack of carbs, and end up puking from the overload of fats into my system.....therefore agreeing that I don't think that I can religiously follow that.

 

[EasyEJL]

yeah, just keep it in mind as the lower you go bf% wise, the harder it gets

 

[MF210]

yeah, just keep it in mind as the lower you go bf% wise, the harder it gets

I need to work out the timing as to when I start dieting. I may try to time it 12-15 weeks prior to a local/regional bodybuilding contest, and if my diet goes well I might compete as a novice.

Will definitely keep the other option in mind. Thanks for your help.