Refeed W/O carbs.

[Omen]

I'm trying to achieve what a refeed with carbs would do (since they worked like magic) however, I have cut out all carbs/plant matter (Vegetables, fruits and grains) from my diet.

Obviously the carbs on a refeed would induce a major Slin Response, Leptin, IGF-1, Etc...... since I'm at <5g carbs/day, I need a way to try to replicate these response as much as I can to offset the "starvation" response especially since I'm getting closer and closer every day to goal weight (shredded 7-9%) I'm still losing steadily and gaining some muscle but it's much too slow, especially with an EC stack.

The whole goal is not to use any carbs and stay keto adapted for good, but I must find a way to give the "signal" a refeed would.

So far I'm thinking 2 Slabs of ribs, 2 whole chickens, 1 duck and 32oz of prime rib once a week as a "refeed".

I'm gonna look around some more on the web and go through some books I have focusing on Keto diets, but any ideas would be appreciated, even if it's just speculation and not an answer.

:cool2:

 

[SuppKnight]

I'm trying to achieve what a refeed with carbs would do (since they worked like magic) however, I have cut out all carbs/plant matter (Vegetables, fruits and grains) from my diet.

Obviously the carbs on a refeed would induce a major Slin Response, Leptin, IGF-1, Etc...... since I'm at <5g carbs/day, I need a way to try to replicate these response as much as I can to offset the "starvation" response especially since I'm getting closer and closer every day to goal weight (shredded 7-9%) I'm still losing steadily and gaining some muscle but it's much too slow, especially with an EC stack.

The whole goal is not to use any carbs and stay keto adapted for good, but I must find a way to give the "signal" a refeed would.

So far I'm thinking 2 Slabs of ribs, 2 whole chickens, 1 duck and 32oz of prime rib once a week as a "refeed".

I'm gonna look around some more on the web and go through some books I have focusing on Keto diets, but any ideas would be appreciated, even if it's just speculation and not an answer.

:cool2:

I would agree with Lyle McDonald here: If you're going to consume enough protein to generate an insulin response, you might as well just consume the carbs, since it varies the diet and makes it easier to follow. If your worry is the rapid insulin spike, just do a low glycemic re-feed.

 

[EasyEJL]

Orrrrr do a surplus cal refeed with moderate protein and high fats. sit down and eat a jar of natural pb, that sort of thing.

Why no vegetables? seems to me that will become a health issue at some point. Also, aren't you totally constipated?

 

[SuppKnight]

Orrrrr do a surplus cal refeed with moderate protein and high fats. sit down and eat a jar of natural pb, that sort of thing.

Why no vegetables? seems to me that will become a health issue at some point. Also, aren't you totally constipated?

But this would only signal the body that one is not in starvation mode, thus allowing for more fat loss; it would not help to gain or even maintain muscle maybe.

I believe he needs either enough protein to generate an insulin response (insulin is extremely anabolic), or like I said, just consume the carbs.

As for the health concerns, these are very valid. At a minimum, some green beans and flaxseed meal should be incorporated into the diet.

 

[Rodja]

Cutting out all produce is a HUGE mistake that will cause some major problems over an extended period of time. Plus, without oxaloacetate, which comes from the glycolysis, it is much more difficult to burn the ketones from this type of diet.

 

[Omen]

I appreciate everyone's effort to help.

I must point out a reminder in my first post "The whole goal is not to use any carbs and no plant matter either", this is about finding the best way to speed up fat loss without carbs, the "healthiness" of this diet is not at debate here and I would appreciate it if we dropped this here and focused on the topic at hand or nothing at all.

For those interested, please start a thread about the diet or send me a PM, I want this to focus on one subject, refeed W/O carbs.

Thank you.

 

[EasyEJL]

The problem with that thought is that if your protein intake is too high your body will treat the protein like carbs anyhow thru gluconeogenesis. At that point there is no advantage to avoiding the carbs. If you are avoiding them just to say you avoided them, I guess thats ok, but it doesn't mean you will stay in ketosis

 

[littlrook]

ok health risk aside, if you want a insulin response with no carbs then shoot some slin with no carbs. i dont rec this but to each his own

 

[gekkoboy14]

I would agree with Lyle McDonald here: If you're going to consume enough protein to generate an insulin response, you might as well just consume the carbs, since it varies the diet and makes it easier to follow. If your worry is the rapid insulin spike, just do a low glycemic re-feed.

what constitutes enough protein?

 

[BoyFromAus]

isn't there any supplements to do this?

isn't supplements such as Anabolic Pump a synthetic form of Insulin which forces proteins and sugars into the muscle but starves the fat (unlike real insulin)?,,,,

but i suppose if the body is to generate its own insulin response in order to offset starvation mode, this may not really help... or will it.

 

[jakellpet]

Omen had a tripped out method for his plan - real high cholestrol and animal fats - he was going to get some testwork done to see how his body reacted..

So far I'm thinking 2 Slabs of ribs, 2 whole chickens, 1 duck and 32oz of prime rib once a week as a "refeed".

That's would be a miracle in itself to consume such a meal in a day, let alone a sitting. I hope his ban isn't permanent!

 

[Cerberus]

From Lyle:

"Finally, and perhaps most importantly relative to most readers of this booklet, deliberately overeating carbohydrates helps to normalize most, if not all, of the hormones I talked about back in the chapter about bodyweight regulation: leptin, ghrelin, insulin, peptide YY, etc. Overeating carbohydrates works to normalize all of these hormones. I want to mention that overeating the other nutrients (fats and proteins) doesn’t have the same effects on all of these hormones which is why structured refeeds need to be high-carbohydrate (and as I’ll mention again below, low in fat) regardless of the type of diet that you’re on. So whereas free meals is really just a time to eat whatever foods your current diet doesn’t allow (if you want), refeeds should be high carbs and low fat for all dieters."

 

[EasyEJL]

From Lyle:

"Finally, and perhaps most importantly relative to most readers of this booklet, deliberately overeating carbohydrates helps to normalize most, if not all, of the hormones I talked about back in the chapter about bodyweight regulation: leptin, ghrelin, insulin, peptide YY, etc. Overeating carbohydrates works to normalize all of these hormones. I want to mention that overeating the other nutrients (fats and proteins) doesn’t have the same effects on all of these hormones which is why structured refeeds need to be high-carbohydrate (and as I’ll mention again below, low in fat) regardless of the type of diet that you’re on. So whereas free meals is really just a time to eat whatever foods your current diet doesn’t allow (if you want), refeeds should be high carbs and low fat for all dieters."

there goes deep fried twinkies

 

[joeymutz]

Omen had a tripped out method for his plan - real high cholestrol and animal fats - he was going to get some testwork done to see how his body reacted..



That's would be a miracle in itself to consume such a meal in a day, let alone a sitting. I hope his ban isn't permanent!

Word omen has a lot of good info and is a very smart guy. I looked at his recent posts and didn't see any comments he posted that would cause him to be banned.

 

[jakellpet]

Word omen has a lot of good info and is a very smart guy. I looked at his recent posts and didn't see any comments he posted that would cause him to be banned.

Exactly - that's why I am a little confused :bandit: