Stuborn Fat - More stuborn than your girl with aunt flow

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    Stuborn Fat - More stuborn than your girl with aunt flow


    I am in need of serious help!

    right now I have a layer of fat over my abs that refuses to go away. I have been dieting like NUTS but can't do cardio right now due to a torn hamstring. I'll outline a bit of my routine and supps to see if anyone has tips.

    1. I am on a hefty dose of anabolic

    2. I am taking 50-75mcg of t3 ED with 50mg of ephedrine and two servings of vpx meltdown (yohimbe based fat burner) and use 10ml of napalm with clen added 4-5 days a week. I also add in high doses of colleus forslean and green tea extract

    3. I eat 1700 cals a day from 100g fats and 200g protein 4 days a week, the 5th day is the same for the first half then 300g of carbs in the second half then Saturday is 500-600 grams of carbs and 200 protein. Sunday is 300 carbs 200 protein and moderate fat.

    I train everything 4 times a week with 3-4 sets. 2 times are high rep, one is moderate and 1 is heavy (I follow the Ultimate diet 2.0 by lyle mcdonald).

    Right now I am about 205-207 at 5'10" and I would guess somewhere around 10%.

    Does anyone have ANY tips that I can use to FINALLY get down to sub 7%??
    D

    Can someone PLE

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    How long have you been using this diet?

    Perhaps lowering volume and working out everyday will help increase your metabolic rate on a daily basis.

    Since your on anabolics maybe consider var, as it is commonly reported to destroy belly fat.

    Maybe a cortisol reducer.
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    I've been dieting like this for maybe 8-10 weeks... I klnow my calories are VERY low 4 days a week but I thought the t3 would override that. Does anyone know if that logic is sound?

    Thanks for the ideas... I am thinking cort blocker as well but one of my concoctions is supposed to lower cortisol...

    I may try lean x-treme. Not being able to do cardio sucks and unfortunetly I can't use clen orally cause of anxiety. I have used dnp in the past but am trying to avoid that route.

    Hope I don't sound defensive but my resources and knowledge are tapped out and I'm straight up desperate ha.
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    Quote Originally Posted by justreading View Post
    I've been dieting like this for maybe 8-10 weeks... I klnow my calories are VERY low 4 days a week but I thought the t3 would override that. Does anyone know if that logic is sound?

    Thanks for the ideas... I am thinking cort blocker as well but one of my concoctions is supposed to lower cortisol...

    I may try lean x-treme. Not being able to do cardio sucks and unfortunetly I can't use clen orally cause of anxiety. I have used dnp in the past but am trying to avoid that route.

    Hope I don't sound defensive but my resources and knowledge are tapped out and I'm straight up desperate ha.
    No problem JR, I'm probably at the exact same point as you are in a diet. Albuterol is another option if your experiencing anxiety from clen (I know it treats me better then clen in that area).

    One thing you may want to try is just altering the diet. Kill the carbs out completely for a week. The AAS should help you retain the LBM.

    Are you using any stims? That could be elevating cortisol. Just another thought.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Royd The Noyd View Post
    No problem JR, I'm probably at the exact same point as you are in a diet. Albuterol is another option if your experiencing anxiety from clen (I know it treats me better then clen in that area).

    One thing you may want to try is just altering the diet. Kill the carbs out completely for a week. The AAS should help you retain the LBM.

    Are you using any stims? That could be elevating cortisol. Just another thought.
    I am on crazy stims haha... Meltdown with ephedrine is too much for me to handle and the funny thing is either one alone at higher doses and I can take a nap but together is WOW.

    I am thinking of addind lean x-treme. I'll be "cruising" soon and will definetly use high doses of LX then.

    I am just bumping up the t3 to 75mcg and I really did not want to go this high.
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    http://www.bodybuildingpro.com/crumcake.html

    I bet you know how to formulate a diet, so no need to follow the sample diet, make one for yourself.

    Also, some people me included have used M&E, which is basically meat and eggs with very little vegetables (use fiber supplements if needed).

    This diet should be very high fat, if you stick to lean meats or only whites, it WILL NOT work, I guarntee you that, when you enter the food at fitday.com or other similar nutrional programs, your macros should be 80% fat and 20% protein, no you will not lose muscle, no you will not get a heart attack, I can back up all these claims, but if ask me to and you don't read each and every one of them, make sure you have paypal.......

    This really is the best way to lose those last stubborn pounds......

    Is this temporary or for long term? it will work either way, but it might not be compatible with your lifestyle long term....

    Good luck if you need any more info/links etc.... post everything here...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omen View Post
    http://www.bodybuildingpro.com/crumcake.html

    I bet you know how to formulate a diet, so no need to follow the sample diet, make one for yourself.

    Also, some people me included have used M&E, which is basically meat and eggs with very little vegetables (use fiber supplements if needed).

    This diet should be very high fat, if you stick to lean meats or only whites, it WILL NOT work, I guarntee you that, when you enter the food at fitday.com or other similar nutrional programs, your macros should be 80% fat and 20% protein, no you will not lose muscle, no you will not get a heart attack, I can back up all these claims, but if ask me to and you don't read each and every one of them, make sure you have paypal.......

    This really is the best way to lose those last stubborn pounds......

    Is this temporary or for long term? it will work either way, but it might not be compatible with your lifestyle long term....

    Good luck if you need any more info/links etc.... post everything here...
    8 weeks, no carbs not even from veggies? I'd have to think glycogen replenishment at some pont would be needed?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Royd The Noyd View Post
    8 weeks, no carbs not even from veggies? I'd have to think glycogen replenishment at some pont would be needed?
    Sorry maybe my first post wasn't clear enough.

    I eat approx 300 carbs friday night then 500-600 on saturday then 200-300 on sunday all based around a very intense very heavy workout on sunday meant to maintain and/or gain strength and muscle... It has worked and I have been getting dtrong as an ox but I may lower the carbs on sunday but its hard because this training regiment is very challenging so the body does need some carbs to recover from the week.
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    Thats kinda a high dose of T3 to be without any AAS.

    I think you answered your own question in your first post. You can't cardio and you should know how HUGE that is.

    Since your not doing cardio i'd cut those carb loads down. For my abs to come in I have to carb cycle.

    EDIT: Missed the first bullet
    Serious Nutrition Solutions Representative
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    Quote Originally Posted by Royd The Noyd View Post
    8 weeks, no carbs not even from veggies? I'd have to think glycogen replenishment at some pont would be needed?
    Not really, the body can make all the glucose it needs from protein via gluceogensis, and all that fat provides tons of energy, while explosive reactions are decreased until the body adapts to using fat instead of carbs, the OP has showed no intention of this being for performance, solely for looks, therefor glycogen replenishment does not matter at this point.

    However since he is already lean, I would say he would need to alternate between longer than normal fasts between meal, ie sometimes 6 hours instead of 3 hrs, and add a planned cheat meal to keep everything going, after a good amount of time on carb depletion.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omen View Post
    Not really, the body can make all the glucose it needs from protein via gluceogensis, and all that fat provides tons of energy, while explosive reactions are decreased until the body adapts to using fat instead of carbs, the OP has showed no intention of this being for performance, solely for looks, therefor glycogen replenishment does not matter at this point.

    However since he is already lean, I would say he would need to alternate between longer than normal fasts between meal, ie sometimes 6 hours instead of 3 hrs, and add a planned cheat meal to keep everything going, after a good amount of time on carb depletion.
    Yes I am aware of gluceogenesis however I was thinking of the appearance of looking flat as common goal of glycogen replenishment by those trying to achieve a better look.

    Based on the link you posted how does one consume all those calories fasting 6 hours between meals? Or is there goal set for total caloric consumption only adhering to the 80/20 (P/F) guideline?

    Interesting diet though.
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    tomorrow i will post up more detail on my routine so it can be picked apart. You guys have been great and its humbling and refreshing to get help when you know you are stuck
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    Mabey try some napalm?
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    Quote Originally Posted by bullneck View Post
    Mabey try some napalm?
    Already using 10ml 4-5 days a week with clen added...
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    That torn hammy is killing you.

    Think about this. You are taking quite a bit of stuff. You seem knowledgeable about diet, so I'm sure that's on. What is missing? Cardio. Is there any way you can do some upper body cardio (boxing, shadow boxing, rowing, etc.)?

    Another thing to think about, is that is your body in a starvation type mode? As far as calories in to calories out.
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    Possibly you are rushing this a little too? Without cardio, and with already being around 10%, your body is probably going to resist rapidly decreasing its remaining fat stores. I imagine that if you gave yourself another 8 weeks of this, that you could be very close to your goal.

    I know, I know...I wouldn't want to wait either. Good luck with it man!
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingMeso View Post
    That torn hammy is killing you.

    Think about this. You are taking quite a bit of stuff. You seem knowledgeable about diet, so I'm sure that's on. What is missing? Cardio. Is there any way you can do some upper body cardio (boxing, shadow boxing, rowing, etc.)?

    Another thing to think about, is that is your body in a starvation type mode? As far as calories in to calories out.
    The whole mechanism of starvation mode is something I need to look into. I always simplfied it as shutting down t3 and thought supplementing exogenious t3 would fiox it.

    One theory I have that I think is slowly working is...

    When taking t3 in a ketogenic state we want to free up stored fatty acids because the body is already trained to burn fat as fuel. My theory on this has been to use napalm w. clen, forslean, green tea and t3 at the same time. I limit fat for 2-3 hours before that (cut it off at the previous meal) then at the meal following this protocol I eat mainly protein hoping that my body will metablize enough fatty acids to keep me in a ketogenic state and limit glucogenesis...

    I am digging DEEP here haha...



    I never though I'd say this but I can't wait to do cardio haha
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    So, if u want to lose stubborn fat. cause im at the same state got stubborn fat. driving me crazy.. but a no carb diet with high protrein would be off a lil fat? and just keep it up?.. im doing a 2500 to 3k calorie a day diet. so should i cut it backto try to cut?
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    Quote Originally Posted by pizzathehut View Post
    So, if u want to lose stubborn fat. cause im at the same state got stubborn fat. driving me crazy.. but a no carb diet with high protrein would be off a lil fat? and just keep it up?.. im doing a 2500 to 3k calorie a day diet. so should i cut it backto try to cut?
    Yeah man... Really what I am doing could work for anyone with some modifications i.e. calories manipulation for someone who is natural and no t3.

    Look into the ultimate diet 2.0. It seems to be good for holding onto and/or gaining strength while cutting which to me is the golden measure of a diets success.

    Also if you can do cardio lyle has a good on stuborn fatloss but its $40 for 70 pages and I can't swing that right now. Long and short of one of his theories is 10 minutes of sprinting cardio ALL OUt on one machine then rest and switch to moderate to slow long duration 30-40 minutes on another machine. I can't wait to try.

    I know I am the one asking for help here but maybe my expeerience can be of some assistance.

    Hopefully I can post up pics so you all can see what I am talking about.
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    yea man i appreciate it. i know u asked the question to start with, but in your words u said it 10 time better than what i would have said in a new topic.. and u got the better repsonse..=P so i kinda stole the oppurtunity, cause i got selfish.. sorry but thank u so much..!! once i know more than u then i'll put my info to help u out
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    Quote Originally Posted by pizzathehut View Post
    yea man i appreciate it. i know u asked the question to start with, but in your words u said it 10 time better than what i would have said in a new topic.. and u got the better repsonse..=P so i kinda stole the oppurtunity, cause i got selfish.. sorry but thank u so much..!! once i know more than u then i'll put my info to help u out
    We'll never know it all heck I'm just a meathead who has been doing this for years but is still at a total loss as to what is wrong...

    I have another theory involving my leptin levels kicking my ass... I've had to resort to using more and more saturated fats because of my appetite going nuts (which could be a leptin thing or a t3 thing) and I know this is hhurting me cause in the past I was able to use solely hemp oil (a more balanced version of flax basically) but now I am sure all the cheese is hurting me.


    Does anyone have any magic tricks to manipulate hunger? I have njever once in my life lost a battle wioth hunger but right now I am at a stale mate with it.

    I'm just throwing out ideas and questions to see if anything sticks and someone can find my flaws
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    well i dunno and i might be way outta the ball park but i was reading in maxum and they were talking bout a think called like beng eating or something like that. were u go like 2 days or 3 days not eating and then 3rd day eat clean and alot and then repeat the cycle, and sure to lose some weight, but i dunno i was reading but didnt fully get into it.. cause i couldnt handle it! has any 1 else heard of this method or idea?
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    Quote Originally Posted by pizzathehut View Post
    well i dunno and i might be way outta the ball park but i was reading in maxum and they were talking bout a think called like beng eating or something like that. were u go like 2 days or 3 days not eating and then 3rd day eat clean and alot and then repeat the cycle, and sure to lose some weight, but i dunno i was reading but didnt fully get into it.. cause i couldnt handle it! has any 1 else heard of this method or idea?
    Might be good if you want to look like an abercrombie model i.e 6'2" 160lb ha
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    hahahah.. u right.. getting rdy for a chicken breast slice.. got kroger to cut up boars head slices at 4 oz a slice. and eat that with a protein shake for lunch.
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    Maybe try l-carnitine injections for localized fat loss. Worth a shot maybe.
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    Quote Originally Posted by justreading View Post
    (I follow the Ultimate diet 2.0 by lyle mcdonald).
    While UD 2.0 does have its place in any fat loss arsenal, it is primarily directed at body recomposition.

    I would therefore suggest you take a look at a newer protocol.
    Last edited by t-bone2; 08-07-2008 at 10:24 AM. Reason: Fix link
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    ^^^dead link T-bone
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    Quote Originally Posted by Royd The Noyd View Post
    ^^^dead link T-bone
    Link changed recently to this:

    Stubborn Fat Solution
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    Quote Originally Posted by t-bone2 View Post
    Not for me, are you blocked?

    The full URL is: http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/stubbornfatsolut.html

    Edit: It does appear that there are problems connecting. The URL is valid, so I suggest you retry. Alternatively, the main page can be found here.
    It's 40 bucks for the book. Any chance you could summarize for us?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Royd The Noyd View Post
    It's 40 bucks for the book. Any chance you could summarize for us?
    Ever read anything that Lyle's written? $40, even for those with a good understanding of physiology and nutrition, is cheap for most of what Lyle offers.

    There are a couple of reviews from blogs that may provide addtional insight:

    Blog and Review #1
    Blog and Review #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by t-bone2 View Post
    Ever read anything that Lyle's written? $40, even for those with a good understanding of physiology and nutrition, is cheap for most of what Lyle offers.

    There are a couple of reviews from blogs that may provide addtional insight:

    Blog and Review #1
    Blog and Review #2
    Not any of the books but I have followed a lot of his posts on another forum. I'll have to put that on my wish list in the meantime...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Royd The Noyd View Post
    Not any of the books but I have followed a lot of his posts on another forum. I'll have to put that on my wish list in the meantime...
    Honestly man his posts are arrogant simplistic "my way or F you." He can really be a prick on boards but his books are ok...

    I just won't buy that new book yet. I think he flushes things out more than necessay and I am sure there are maybe 10 pages of real advice in that book which I am sure are awsome.
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    Quote Originally Posted by justreading View Post
    I think he flushes things out more than necessay...
    Yeah, well some of us like to see the original, peer reviewed studies which Lyle generally includes in his references that back up his claims rather than hear someone wanking about Bro Science with nothing to lend any remote credibility to what they are saying.
    Quote Originally Posted by justreading View Post
    ...and I am sure there are maybe 10 pages of real advice in that book which I am sure are awsome.
    Yes, and worth the price of admission.
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    I actually just got my hands on his UD 2.0 book. Only through ch 3 though.
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    Nice! When I first got it, I had to reread chapters 4 & 6 a couple of times. There is a lot of data in there!
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    Honestly the stubborn fat book doesnt look to cover many different things then I am seeing in the UD 2.0 book. In fact a lot look exactly the same.

    I'm pry going to hold off on that one.

    Topics include

    • What body fat actually is and what it does in the body
    • An explanation of the different ‘types’ of body fat
    • How fat cells store and mobilize body fat
    • What it means to ‘burn’ body fat and the key processes involved
    • How hormones affect stubborn body fat
    • Why stubborn body fat is stubborn in the first place
    • How nutrition, training and supplements impact on stubborn body fat loss
    • The four different protocols that dieters can use to attack stubborn body fat to get rid of it once and for all
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    They are not the same books. Obviously there is some overlap, but they are not the same.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Royd The Noyd View Post
    Honestly the stubborn fat book doesnt look to cover many different things then I am seeing in the UD 2.0 book. In fact a lot look exactly the same.
    They're not. UD is about body recomposition, Stubborn Fat is about, well..., stubborn fat. The Stubborn Fat book as specific protcols aimed at what the title implies that the UD does not even touch on.
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    Take a look at this

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