[toolio]

Been reading a LOT of posts about AP/Recreate stacking...what are your thoughts on a Powerfull/Recreate stack? I'm looking down the barrel at the big 5-0 at 6'3" 230lb and 15%BF (calipers) right now. Would love to be ripped at 50 and stop hearing my wife jabber about how good Mario Lopez looks. Diet is pretty clean, cardio is there.

[snagency]

Originally Posted by toolio

Been reading a LOT of posts about AP/Recreate stacking...what are your thoughts on a Powerfull/Recreate stack? I'm looking down the barrel at the big 5-0 at 6'3" 230lb and 15%BF (calipers) right now. Would love to be ripped at 50 and stop hearing my wife jabber about how good Mario Lopez looks. Diet is pretty clean, cardio is there.

lol.. Mario only eats 2-3 solid meals/day, then a couple protein shakes, dude has pretty solid genetics.
Personally, I think a Recreate/AP/PowerFULL stack would do ya bigtime justice in combination with a solid diet plan. Natural GH production is waning at age 50; plus, PowerFULL just seems to make everything else work better, good synergism.
Everybody has different metabolism, but at 50 I believe you need to keep an eye on the fat intake, 60g/day or less, and keep the source clean (eliminate saturated as much as possible), get 33-50% of your source from fish oil. Of course, low-glycemic carb intake is mandatory as well, and get your protein intake up to at least 250g or so daily..

[toolio]

Originally Posted by snagency

Personally, I think a Recreate/AP/PowerFULL stack would do ya bigtime justice in combination with a solid diet plan. Natural GH production is waning at age 50; plus, PowerFULL just seems to make everything else work better, good synergism.
Everybody has different metabolism, but at 50 I believe you need to keep an eye on the fat intake, 60g/day or less, and keep the source clean (eliminate saturated as much as possible), get 33-50% of your source from fish oil. Of course, low-glycemic carb intake is mandatory as well, and get your protein intake up to at least 250g or so daily..

Thanks, Steve.
Up until now i have been taking a regime of supplements as follows:

Red Yeast Rice 1200mg
ToCoQ10 200mg
Niacin 1000mg
B Complex
Fish Oil 4400mg

Chromium 200mcg
ALA 600mg
Acetyl L-Carnitine 1000mg
CLA 2000mg
GLA 3900mg
L-Carnitine Fumarate 1500mg
DMAE 100mg
L-Tyrosine 750mg

The first group for general health/cholesterol policing and the second group as a fat-burn (or so I have read - Perricone Prescription)

So I have 2 questions for you, if I may impose:
1. I see that you mention a Recreate/AP/Powerfull stack...all 3 ?
2. Should I still take the rest of the supplements? I can handle the pill-popping (I'm as tough as Stallone) but am I just fabricating expensive urine?

Thanks.
Pseudo-Super-Mario

[snagency]

Originally Posted by toolio

Red Yeast Rice 1200mg
ToCoQ10 200mg
Niacin 1000mg
B Complex
Fish Oil 4400mg

Chromium 200mcg
ALA 600mg
Acetyl L-Carnitine 1000mg
CLA 2000mg
GLA 3900mg
L-Carnitine Fumarate 1500mg
DMAE 100mg
L-Tyrosine 750mg

The first group for general health/cholesterol policing and the second group as a fat-burn (or so I have read - Perricone Prescription)

So I have 2 questions for you, if I may impose:
1. I see that you mention a Recreate/AP/Powerfull stack...all 3 ?
2. Should I still take the rest of the supplements? I can handle the pill-popping (I'm as tough as Stallone) but am I just fabricating expensive urine?

Wow, extensive stack.. impressive.
My own opinions to the first stack: nice antioxidant regime, little light on the fish oil, but I am partial to Polliquin here and like a minimum 15g daily..
As to the second stack, you've obviously done your homework, but again my opinions: chromium (great), ALA (nice), carnitine (HUGE fan, of both forms you have; timing is essential on these tho), tyrosine (cool), CLA & GLA (HIGHLY overrated -- think you're better off upping your fish oil), DMAE don't know much about..
As to your questions: if you want to lean out & add some lean muscle tissue, then all 3 would be great; AP will help in this respect to utilize food intake. If leaning out is the goal (muscle tissue be damned), then drop AP, just run the other 2..
Should you still take the others?.. sure man, it's a nice stack. Everything depends on your preference tho - me, I don't mind popping pills at all, as long as they're doing what they're s'posed to do. Just because you take many diff. supps doesn't necessarily mean they will not absorb.
Tough as Sly huh? You're a bad man then..
Best to ya in your goals bro!

[toolio]

Thanks again...this is great stuff.

What is the best timing for the Carnitines?
Right now I take one flight of the entire stack at wake-up, then 1 each of CLA, Fish oil, and L-Carnitine Fumerate twice more each day. Good? not good?

I like your suggestion for the fish oil...will look into Polliquin.
And yes, i like the sound of adding muscle AND leaning out...my concern is the complex carb balance that seems to be critical when taking AP. It's taken me a lot of effort to curb my carb craving/intake. Thoughts?

And I appreciate your time here

[snagency]

Hey no problem man, glad to throw some input out if it helps ya..
Hmmm.. well best timing for the acetyl l-carn is at rising & before bed imo (at least 1g), you can stack the fumerate here as well (500mg-1g), this is great stack for anabolic effect & fat-loss; just make sure you wait at least 30 minutes before you eat breakfast then, and dose at night on empty stomach..
Carnitine thru day can be taken 1/2 hour to w/o (great) or meals thruout day as well (again 1/2 hr. prior to eating).
Chromium (picolinate right?) I'd take w/ breakfast, and fish oils I'd split evenly thruout day w/ meals, not on empty stomach.
Everything else should be stacked around your w/o imo: ALA & tyrosine prior to w/o; your antioxidant stack w/ meal following training. I personally wouldn't do the antioxidant stack on days you don't train, as long as you're taking a good multi daily this should suffice.
Carbs are funny w/ me too; it's been a learning process with the AP for me. For cutting purposes tho, I get awesome results w/ 20-30g complex carbs along with my AP doses; take a bit more & get some simple sugars in with post w/o meal tho; even in cutting stage this shouldn't be stored to adipose or disrupt the leaning out process. You just have to experiment & see what works for you..

[snagency]

btw, gotta ask one thing: are you taking the fumerate form for heart/choles. issues or for fat-burning?
Nothing wrong w/ that form, just that if you use more for leaning out purposes I'd recommend straight l-carnitine version. If you're using for cardiocascular issues then stick w/ fum. version ..

[toolio]

The fumerate version is a result of reading up. Seemed like tatrate and fumerate were close, but fumerate was recommended as I recall for being a little better for post w/o recovery. But hey, what do I know?

Invaluable info, Steve, thanks. I'm probably like a lot of guys, always been athletic but never achieved optimum results so now at 50 I'm trying to get it right. Better late than never.

Is there a resource at USP Labs that will work with me one-on-one to map out a meal/workout/supplement regimen? I have a great start from the info you have provided but I hate to keep burning up your time.

[snagency]

Shoot, I'm still trying to get it right too my man..
I don't think one is ever done learning (shouldn't be anyway).
Don't know about a "dietary" resource per se at USP, but there are some smart guys within the company that may be able to help here..
Try usplabsdirect.com and sign up to use the forums, might be some useful feedback for ya there..
If you want personalized one-on-one attention & custom diet, I'll refer you to Joe at fitfranco.com, it's what he does for a living & he's pretty darn knowledgeable! Depends on how serious you wanna get..

[toolio]

Will do...and thanks again. We'll chat again I'm sure.

Keep on Keepin' on!

[toolio]

Steve,

Last question...how do you take/get your 15g of fish oil daily? and how much EPA and DHA are you getting?

[Mulletsoldier]

Mario Lopez is....AC Slater?

[B5150]

Taken from a personal conversation with a very credible individual

Originally Posted by B5150

Curious. How does this look for around my workout using Powerfull, Recreate, P-Slin and AP?

AM - Wake:

0:00 - 2 Powerfull
0:15 - 1 P-Slin, 1 SuperCissus, 2 Recreate
0:30 - Pre W/O shake (oats/wms/BCAA/mono/BA/Luecine)

0:45-1:00 - W/O
Last Set - 1 AP
0:15 - Post W/O shake (repeat above)

To tell you the truth, fasted states in conjunction with products which induce, and following, utilize lipolysis are absolutely fantastic. If you are lifting immediately after waking, may I suggest forgoing the Pre-WO shake? Glucose provides only 1/3 of the energy for anaerobic cellular reactions, and the combination of both PowerFULL and ReCreate modulating lipolysis pathways produces very strong workouts.

Funny you should say that. If you recall prior to my using AP I was low to no carb cutting. Even though I was not using recreate , I used green tea, Yohimbine, and Powerfull pre workout and without a pre workout meal. It was still pretty intense despite empty stomach. If I did cardio after wards I could feel the fat melting off me.

Now to the idea of recreate and powerfull pre workout without a meal - I am not necessarily looking to cut. I do know that with P-Slin and AP all I would have to do is add cardio into my diet as is and I would be cutting up. What I would like to do is use recreate and powerfull in addition to P-Slin and AP with a slight moderate surplus. I want to eat well enough to grow and recomp with maybe a 7-10lb net BW gain.

Exactly. You could utilize the fasted workouts in order to disperse of fatty acids liberated throughout the night. I would:

Wake:

2 (3 PowerFULL)
1 AP
2 ReCreate
1 Cissus
Intra-workout shake containing no carbohydrates (only BCAAs)

Then follow with P-Slin on the last set with your intended Post-WO shake.

I believe P-Slin, if you already have it, is more useful in this particular protocol - its pure glucose regulating capabilities will serve you well in delivering nutrients after a fasted weight session.

I see how this (fasted workout with supps) could be beneficial for cutting but do you feel I would still fair well with lbm as a primary goal and fot loss secondary or even just consequencial?

Most definitely. Whether we choose to utilize them or not, the process of lipolysis liberates stored fatty acids into our blood stream in the form of triglycerides - by engaging in anaerobic exercise, we use these newly liberated FFAs for cellular exertion (as I said, fatty acid oxidation comprises about 2/3 energy use in an anaerobic movement). This protocol merely utilizes energy which would have been wasted in a normal protocol, while ensuring that proper Post-WO nutrition is undertaken.