[USPLabscience]

New member Dangthebird claims:

"http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...91c704a546e947 the anti-inflamatory effects of your drug are causing people to feel better, you are advertising that actual healing has taken place and you have nothing to back up these statements. Healing cannot take place with inhibition of the inflamatory process and this is a known scientific fact."




Dear Sir,

The study was originally cited for potential analgesic effects as a potential way of explaining what many users note with use, not for any implied anti-inflammatory effect. It is by no means a definitive mechanism of action as they are the rarity rather than the rule even in the pharmaceutical industry. Much of the reason for a lack of definitive MOAs is a result of the ethical limitations of research in humans. Quite simply, even with those we care least for, we may not use them in the same way we do any mammalian model, which allows us to force administration of any substance, kill the subject and examine as necessary. Regarding your assertion of the anti-inflammatory effect as a mechanism, I will happily address it.

While I am familiar that certain NSAIDs are thought to delay or impair the healing of certain soft tissues, it seems irrelevant and only grants further support that the extract from Cissus q. does not work through such an anti-inflammatory mechanism, at least in a rheumatic model.

For what does not fit in your hypothesis is many fold and easily confirmable. First, such inhibitors of inflammation do not lend themselves to the strengthening of bones, in fact, they impair the healing of fractured bone. Is this not the complete and total converse to what Cissus q. has demonstrated? Second, are NSAIDs not also used clinically to prevent bone formation? Yet again, the complete polar opposite of Cissus q. has been shown. Finally, if one is to believe that this plant extract is working through said mechanism, why would we not only find a lack of gastric ulcers with use, but a gastroprotective effect by Cissus q. against NSAID-induced ulcers? The answer is that Cissus q. does not work through the mechanism you have implied.

Best Regards.

[USPLabs]

Originally Posted by AM07

So why the **** are USP haters coming out like woodwork right now? First the USP Labs is **** thread, then this?

I'm not a supp company whore because IMO, most supps are placebos, but to register here just to bash a company is pretty low. Let me guess, you're from that worthless ****ty, trashy forum known as bodybuilding.com, right? I guess you guys over there probably think test injections are actually flax seed injections, like Bonds.

If you did come here for the sole purpose of bashing USP, then just get the **** out of here.

lol, He is not bashing. He is defending the product. He is our research pharmacist we consult with.

I appreciate the passion~

[AM07]

Well then, my bad

[Interlocutor]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...ubmed_RVDocSum

Reactive oxygen species, neutrophil infiltration and proinflammatory cytokines play an important role in the pathogenesis of gastric ulcers caused by aspirin. The present study demonstrates the healing effect of Cissus quadrangularis extract (CQE) through inhibitory action on generation of lipid peroxidation, proinflammatory cytokines and neutrophil infiltration. The concentration of malondialdehye (MDA), protein carbonyl content, conjugated dienes, mucosal (SH) sulphydryls, uric acid, tumor necrosis factor-alpha (TNF-alpha), and activities of myeloperoxidase (MPO), xanthine oxidase (XO) and antioxidative enzymes were determined in the gastric mucosa. Administration of CQE significantly attenuated the gastric lesions induced by aspirin and this was accompanied by the rise in uric acid, antioxidative enzymes, SH groups, and a significant decrease in lipid peroxidase, TNF-alpha, MPO and XO activities. These findings suggest that the significant gastroprotective activity could be mediated by the antioxidant activity as well as by the attenuation of oxidative mechanism and proinflammatory cytokines.

Chopra SS, Patel MR, Awadhiya RP. Studies of Cissus quadrangularis in experimental fracture repair : a histopathological study Indian J Med Res. 1976 Sep;64(9):1365-8

Chopra SS, Patel MR, Gupta LP, Datta IC. Studies on Cissus quadrangularis in experimental fracture repair: effect on chemical parameters in blood Indian J Med Res. 1975 Jun;63(6):824-8.

seem to indicate improved bone healing through acting as a glucocorticoid antagonist. to bad those aren't easily available.
there are more on that, but they all seem pretty ancient (1960's onward).

T.I.

[Mulletsoldier]

I've been postulating that Cissus Q's main reparative effects are mitigated through cytokine antagonist since the onset. It's also been proven to inhibit the expression of TNF Alpha, a very destructive cytokine in soft tissue.

[USPLabs]

up top

[eatingisfun]

Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier

I've been postulating that Cissus Q's main reparative effects are mitigated through cytokine antagonist since the onset. It's also been proven to inhibit the expression of TNF Alpha, a very destructive cytokine in soft tissue.

That's pretty interesting if that's what's happening. Wikipedia is telling me that a gestating baby's fingers are separated by Apoptosis which is a good thing so any pregnant woman, stay away from cissus if you don't want a baby with webbed fingers

But inhibition of TNF Alpha is interesting because it links to cell death, inflammation, tumor growth etc. Which means too much of it is a bad thing for your cells.

They also say TNF:
On the liver: stimulating the acute phase response, leading to an increase in C-reactive protein and a number of other mediators. It also induces insulin resistance by promoting serine-phosphorylation of insulin receptor substrate-1 (IRS-1), which impairs insulin signaling.

So too much TNF can induce insulin resistance. So less *should* increase insulin sensitivity.

Not that I want to claim this could be good for your immune system and staving off cancer but TNF has links to cancer tumor formation and proliferation.

[Mulletsoldier]

Originally Posted by eatingisfun

That's pretty interesting if that's what's happening. Wikipedia is telling me that a gestating baby's fingers are separated by Apoptosis which is a good thing so any pregnant woman, stay away from cissus if you don't want a baby with webbed fingers

But inhibition of TNF Alpha is interesting because it links to cell death, inflammation, tumor growth etc. Which means too much of it is a bad thing for your cells.

They also say TNF:
On the liver: stimulating the acute phase response, leading to an increase in C-reactive protein and a number of other mediators. It also induces insulin resistance by promoting serine-phosphorylation of insulin receptor substrate-1 (IRS-1), which impairs insulin signaling.

So too much TNF can induce insulin resistance. So less *should* increase insulin sensitivity.

Not that I want to claim this could be good for your immune system and staving off cancer but TNF has links to cancer tumor formation and proliferation.

I have seen a few studies like the one below where Cissus is suggested as an efficacious means to control Metabolic Syndrome. I'll try and see if I can find any with a more assertive link to NIDDM than the abstract below.

Re: Efficacy of a Cissus quadrangularis Formulation in the Treatment of Weight Loss and the Metabolic Syndrome
Oben J, Kuate D, Agbor G, Momo C, Talla X. The use of Cissus quadrongularis formulation in the management of weight loss and metabolic syndrome. Lipids in Health and Disease. 2006;5(24):1-7.

The metabolic syndrome, also commonly known as insulin resistance syndrome, is a disorder that has become common in the United States and worldwide as a result of the increased prevalence of obesity. As of 2003, more than 60% of the adult US population was overweight or obese, and 47 million people had the metabolic syndrome. Globally, this syndrome has become a major public health problem because obesity is associated with high serum triglycerides, low serum HDL cholesterol, and hyperglycemia all of which are associated with an increased risk of cardiovascular disease. Total cholesterol and LDL cholesterol are additional cardiovascular risk factors. Pharmacotherapeutic options have been used in the treatment of obesity. However, adverse effects have led to the withdrawal of some of these medications from the marketplace. Because of safety concerns and high costs, many populations are seeking natural therapies to aid with weight loss. The objective of this study was to evaluate the efficacy of a Cissus quadrangularis formulation (CylarisTM; Gateway Health Alliances, Inc., Fairfield, CA) in the management of weight loss and the metabolic syndrome. In addition to a C. quadrangularis extract standardized to contain a minimum of 2.5% phytosterols and of 15% soluble plant fiber, the formulation contained soy (Glycine max) albumin extract, a green tea (Camellia sinensis) extract standardized to 22% epigallocatechin gallate and 40% caffeine, niacin-bound chromium, selenium standardized to 0.5% l-selinomethionin, vitamin B6 (as pyridoxine hydrochloride), vitamin B12 (as cynaocobalamin), and folic acid.

This prospective, randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled study was conducted at the Laboratory for Nutrition and Nutritional Biochemistry at the University of Yaoundé I, Cameroon, Africa. Obese men and women (n = 92) aged 19–50 years were randomly assigned to 3 groups: placebo, C. quadrangularis formulation plus no dietary intervention (usual diet), or C. quadrangularis formulation plus dietary intervention (a calorie-controlled diet providing 2100–2200 calories/day) for 8 weeks. Overweight men and women (n = 31) comprised a fourth group, which received C. quadrangularis formulation plus no dietary intervention. The C. quadrangularis formulation was provided as 2 daily doses of 514 mg each, taken with water before breakfast and dinner. Body weight, percentage body fat, waist circumference, and cholesterol, C-reactive protein, glucose, and triglyceride concentrations were measured at baseline and at week 8. A P value <0.05 indicated significance.

Waist circumference decreased significantly by week 8 in all treatment groups. Body weight and body mass index decreased significantly in the 2 obese groups. Over 8 weeks, the placebo group lost 2.3.kg, the overweight group lost 3.7 kg, and the 2 obese groups lost 6.6 and 8.1 kg of body weight. Plasma total cholesterol and LDL cholesterol decreased significantly in the 3 treatment groups, and HDL cholesterol increased significantly in the 2 obese groups. Triglyceride, C-reactive protein, and glucose concentrations also decreased significantly in the 3 treatment groups. Some adverse effects were reported; however, the incidence of all reported side effects was higher in the placebo than in the treatment groups; thus, the authors concluded that the side effects were not associated with C. quadrangularis treatment.

The results help support the authors' hypothesis that the use of a C. quadrangularis formulation is efficacious in the management of weight loss, total cholesterol, LDL cholesterol, and the metabolic syndrome. Treatment with C. quadrangularis for 8 weeks resulted in weight reduction, total cholesterol reduction, LDL cholesterol reduction, and improvements in the symptoms of the metabolic syndrome. The drastic reduction in waist circumference after 8 week of C. quadrangularis use in both the dietary intervention and nondietary intervention groups was a particularly important finding because waist circumference is the major criterion used to diagnose obesity and the metabolic syndrome. The authors suggest that C. quadrangularis "may also have applications in other metabolic diseases, such as diabetes mellitus."

[USPLabs]

Originally Posted by eatingisfun

That's pretty interesting if that's what's happening. Wikipedia is telling me that a gestating baby's fingers are separated by Apoptosis which is a good thing so any pregnant woman, stay away from cissus if you don't want a baby with webbed fingers

But inhibition of TNF Alpha is interesting because it links to cell death, inflammation, tumor growth etc. Which means too much of it is a bad thing for your cells.

They also say TNF:
On the liver: stimulating the acute phase response, leading to an increase in C-reactive protein and a number of other mediators. It also induces insulin resistance by promoting serine-phosphorylation of insulin receptor substrate-1 (IRS-1), which impairs insulin signaling.

So too much TNF can induce insulin resistance. So less *should* increase insulin sensitivity.

Not that I want to claim this could be good for your immune system and staving off cancer but TNF has links to cancer tumor formation and proliferation.

curcuminoids from tumeric is postulated to inhibit TNF A. I take 2 capsules of SirPLus everyday for health benefits.