Anabolic Pump FAQ

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  1. Can AP be takin while on PCT? I just finished a 4 week cycle of Methyl1D and now am taking Formadrol and Psarm for a PCT.
    I have a bottle of AP but should i wait until after PCT to start on it?
    I posted this in the PCT section a few days ago and got no responce,Hope i have better luck here. Thanks

    BTW, I plan on bulking at least 2 more months before cutting if that makes a difference.
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  2. I think AP is a great supplement in an environment attempting to reboot one's HPTA. Not only due to its GLUT4 translocation, but also its anti-lipogenic and anti-cholesterolemic functions.

  3. Does it work well with a stack of RPM/Drive or should I wait to dose AP on its own?

  4. 11th day, not noticing anything. I've tried waiting different times, anywhere from 10-75 minutes. I've tried various amounts of complex carbs, anywhere from 35-70 grams, still nothing.

    Anything else I can do to hopefully feel the effects of this supplement?
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  5. Quote Originally Posted by ono View Post
    Aha it's probably just hypoglacemia or however you spell it. That shizzle is no fun. Suppose it will be ok if i carb up when am on it....which is what i'll be doing
    You clarified your own confusion just now! Bravo.
    Freedom means nothing here.

  6. Quote Originally Posted by AM07 View Post
    11th day, not noticing anything. I've tried waiting different times, anywhere from 10-75 minutes. I've tried various amounts of complex carbs, anywhere from 35-70 grams, still nothing.

    Anything else I can do to hopefully feel the effects of this supplement?
    Have you tried any simple carbs?

  7. Quote Originally Posted by dexterium View Post
    Have you tried any simple carbs?
    Nope. But if it requires using simple carbs, then I see no reason taking the supplement in the first place since I don't consume simple carbs, and none of us should be if our goals are what we say they are.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by AM07 View Post
    Nope. But if it requires using simple carbs, then I see no reason taking the supplement in the first place since I don't consume simple carbs, and none of us should be if our goals are what we say they are.
    Even if the supplement negates any negatives associated with said simple carb? You will avoid insulin spikes, insulin resistance and weight gain that accompany them when precipitated by AP.

    I am a no sugars advocate myself ... well, I was before trying them with AP. FWIW
    Recent log:http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/213350-lean-efx-refined.html

  9. I picked up a couple bottles each of P-Slin and AP... DAMN! Amazing stuff! I had a really nice run with it before and wasn't afraid to abide by and trust the instructions that say : (P-Slin) "Use 60-100 grams of carbs" & (AP) "Use atleast 40 grams of complex carbs"... whatever... outstanding results manifested themselves from the first dose of each! No exaggeration!
    Freedom means nothing here.

  10. Quote Originally Posted by AM07 View Post
    Nope. But if it requires using simple carbs, then I see no reason taking the supplement in the first place since I don't consume simple carbs, and none of us should be if our goals are what we say they are.
    It does not require simple carbohydrates, but Dex was merely suggesting you may respond better with a mixture; this could be due to your insulin sensitivity predisposition.

  11. Before I spend almost £40 on this product will someone please explain how Phellodendron the first ingredient, works in this formula .I have searched Google and despite the claim that only USP had heard of this plant/herb ,lots of information is available through Google, quote from one-Phellodendron has been used to treat gastric ulcers, bacterial infections, fungal infections, and diabetes. It has also been used for immunosuppression and as a topical anti-inflammatory agent.

    I have no wish to knock this product as anecdotal feedback seems to be good, but if we are trying to create an anabolic window throughout the day , why not eat every 2/3 hours slow release carbs along with good quality protein.This will create an insulin rise ,and shuttle gradually nutrients into the bloodstream , but not a spike as in after training when its wanted.

    For me personally supplement companies have to do a lot more hard work and research to convince me to buy their product. So many supplements contain herbs which have been used in folklore medicine for years and for something not related to bodybuilding. As soon as it gets into the bodybuilding arena , for some reason its the icing on the cake to getting the "physique of your dreams!"

    So back to where I came in , can someone come up with information that will convince me to buy this product .I am not taken in by advertising claims .

  12. Quote Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier View Post
    It does not require simple carbohydrates, but Dex was merely suggesting you may respond better with a mixture; this could be due to your insulin sensitivity predisposition.
    But the thing is, with my diet, there is nothing that includes simple carbohydrates. I don't even consume a PWO shake; I just come home and typically eat a full meal containing complex carbohydrates and lean meat.

    So should I take an AP right after my workout, then try having a PWO shake consisting of 50 grams dextrose with 35 grams whey 20 minutes later?

    I don't understand how insulin sensitivity (specifically mine, which I doubt could be figured out just by the feel of things after I eat something) could have anything to do with this if I've tried eating at various times after taking the AP. So is it better if one has a higher insulin sensitivity (better for overall health) with this product than a lower sensitivity? Do the non-responders of this product tend to have a high insulin sensitivity?

  13. If you want to increase your own insulin sensitivity see what L.REA has to say about doing just that in his book "Building the perfect beast -naturally "


    Before spending money on a product which may or may not work .After youve read what he has to say on insulin, then decide what you want to do

  14. I believe the non-responders may have a higher resistance yes. AP often requires time to increase your sensitivity to insulin before it's full effects are realized. The increased glut4 creates an environment where less insulin is required thus less insulin is released. Over time the decreased levels increase sensitivity. For overall health this is a very good thing as even a cursory exposition to the effect of insulin will reveal it's intrinsically toxic nature.
    Recent log:http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/213350-lean-efx-refined.html

  15. So do you think I may not be responding because my insulin sensitivity is high or low?

  16. Quote Originally Posted by AM07 View Post
    So do you think I may not be responding because my insulin sensitivity is high or low?
    I can only speculate, but you may have some resistance or "low sensitivity". I would suggest continuing using it with your existing diet and see if you start to notice some effects by the end of the bottle. Even if you are not "feeling" anything, the process I described above regarding the glut-4 translocation and reduced insulin release should indeed still be taking place if dosing as prescribed and that is reason enough for me to continue taking it.

    Really, the overall health benefits of AP make any "pump", accelerated muscle gain or fatloss effects take second stage in my book.
    Recent log:http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/213350-lean-efx-refined.html

  17. Quote Originally Posted by corsaking View Post
    Before I spend almost £40 on this product will someone please explain how Phellodendron the first ingredient, works in this formula .I have searched Google and despite the claim that only USP had heard of this plant/herb ,lots of information is available through Google, quote from one-Phellodendron has been used to treat gastric ulcers, bacterial infections, fungal infections, and diabetes. It has also been used for immunosuppression and as a topical anti-inflammatory agent.

    I have no wish to knock this product as anecdotal feedback seems to be good, but if we are trying to create an anabolic window throughout the day , why not eat every 2/3 hours slow release carbs along with good quality protein.This will create an insulin rise ,and shuttle gradually nutrients into the bloodstream , but not a spike as in after training when its wanted.

    For me personally supplement companies have to do a lot more hard work and research to convince me to buy their product. So many supplements contain herbs which have been used in folklore medicine for years and for something not related to bodybuilding. As soon as it gets into the bodybuilding arena , for some reason its the icing on the cake to getting the "physique of your dreams!"

    So back to where I came in , can someone come up with information that will convince me to buy this product .I am not taken in by advertising claims .
    Phellodendron has been shown to mitigate AMPk. AMPk is immediately involved in the glycogen uptake pathway via induction of GLUT4; especially in terms of contractile tissue. GLUT4 mRNA expression and translocation can be adversely affected by the downregulation of AMPk and other kinases.

    Evidence:

    Berberine, a Natural Plant Product, Activates AMP-Activated Protein Kinase With Beneficial Metabolic Effects in Diabetic and Insulin-Resistant States

    Yun S. Lee1

    Berberine has been shown to have antidiabetic properties, although its mode of action is not known. Here, we have investigated the metabolic effects of berberine in two animal models of insulin resistance and in insulin-responsive cell lines. Berberine reduced body weight and caused a significant improvement in glucose tolerance without altering food intake in db/db mice. Similarly, berberine reduced body weight and plasma triglycerides and improved insulin action in high-fat–fed Wistar rats. Berberine downregulated the expression of genes involved in lipogenesis and upregulated those involved in energy expenditure in adipose tissue and muscle. Berberine treatment resulted in increased AMP-activated protein kinase (AMPK) activity in 3T3-L1 adipocytes and L6 myotubes, increased GLUT4 translocation in L6 cells in a phosphatidylinositol 3' kinase–independent manner, and reduced lipid accumulation in 3T3-L1 adipocytes. These findings suggest that berberine displays beneficial effects in the treatment of diabetes and obesity at least in part via stimulation of AMPK activity.
    As stated, this study explains Berberine's ability to regulate energy expenditure as a whole - rather than simply glucose metabolism - in both myocytes and adipocytes. Further, it inhibited both differentiation and hypertrophy in accumulated lipids, most likely regulating the PPAR family. In terms of the AP-specific glucose effect, it lead to increased levels of GLUT4 in myocytes specifically.

    Berberine-stimulated glucose uptake in L6 myotubes involves both AMPK and p38 MAPK

    Zhe Cheng, Tao Pang, Min Gu, An-Hui Gao, Chuan-Ming Xie, Jing-Ya Li, Fa-Jun Nan and Jia Li

    National Center for Drug Screening, Shanghai Institute of Materia Medica, Shanghai Institutes for Biological Sciences, Chinese Academy of Sciences, Shanghai 201203, P. R. China


    Received 17 May 2006; revised 13 September 2006; accepted 13 September 2006. Available online 20 September 2006.

    Abstract

    Berberine is a plant alkaloid used in traditional Chinese medicine and has been reported to have antihyperglycemic activity in NIDDM patients. However, the molecular basis for this action is yet to be elucidated. Here we investigate the effects and signaling pathways of berberine on L6 rat skeletal muscles. Our study demonstrates that berberine stimulates glucose uptake in a time- and dose-dependent manner. Intriguingly, berberine-stimulated glucose uptake does not vary as insulin concentration increases, and could not be blocked by the PI 3-kinase inhibitor wortmannin. Berberine only weakly stimulates the phosphorylation of Akt/PKB, a key molecule in the insulin signaling pathway, but strongly promotes the phosphorylation of AMPK and p38 MAPK. The effects of berberine are not a result of pro-oxidant action, but a consequence of an increased cellular AMP:ATP ratio. Moreover, berberine-stimulated glucose uptake is inhibited by the AMPK inhibitor Compound C and the p38 MAPK inhibitor SB202190. Inhibition of AMPK reduces p38 MAPK phosphorylation, suggesting that AMPK lies upstream of p38 MAPK. These results suggest that berberine circumvents insulin signaling pathways and stimulates glucose uptake through the AMP-AMPK-p38 MAPK pathway, which may account for the antihyperglycemic effects of this drug.
    As stated above, AMPk regulates glucose metabolism through insulin-reactive, though not necessarily insulin-dependent, pathways. It has a weak affinity for Akt/PKB which are IR-dependent compounds, whereas both studies show a direct induction of AMPk/p38 MAPK, which are more or less GLUT4 specific kinases. This all leads to lower serum levels of insulin via increased glycogen storage while circumventing insulin's action.

    Lagerstroemia (extracted for both Corosolic and Tannic Acid) works in a corollary manner - creating positive energy turnover ratios between adipocytes and myocytes.

  18. Quote Originally Posted by AM07 View Post
    So do you think I may not be responding because my insulin sensitivity is high or low?
    It could very well be either. If you are sensitive to the action of insulin already, than the insulin-reactive pathways AP is mitigating will not see immediate benefit; similarly, if you have been insensitive to the action of insulin, AP may take some time to affect the above mentioned kinases.

    How long have you been using the product?

  19. Quote Originally Posted by bpmartyr View Post
    I believe the non-responders may have a higher resistance yes. AP often requires time to increase your sensitivity to insulin before it's full effects are realized. The increased glut4 creates an environment where less insulin is required thus less insulin is released. Over time the decreased levels increase sensitivity. For overall health this is a very good thing as even a cursory exposition to the effect of insulin will reveal it's intrinsically toxic nature.
    I saw results immediately... I pretty much already had the carbohydrate content already setup in a configuration that's optimal for AP and P-Slin. Now, all I had to do was dose it 15 minutes before hand. I'm amazed.
    Freedom means nothing here.

  20. Quote Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier View Post
    It could very well be either. If you are sensitive to the action of insulin already, than the insulin-reactive pathways AP is mitigating will not see immediate benefit; similarly, if you have been insensitive to the action of insulin, AP may take some time to affect the above mentioned kinases.

    How long have you been using the product?
    Today is Day 13. Dosing at 3 caps/day. Missed a couple dosages, but it shouldn't make a big difference. I dosed two this morning at once. Will also be dosing two more at once later this evening.

  21. Thanks to mulletsoldier for the references, however having read Berberine : by Ray Sahelian, M.D., health benefits , I am not convinced that I should use this product.I am currently following the recommendations L REA has made in his book " Building the perfect beast -naturally" with regard to optimising insulin response and I see no reason to change.
    Last edited by corsaking; 05-18-2008 at 06:40 AM. Reason: word omitted in book title

  22. Quote Originally Posted by corsaking View Post
    Thanks to mulletsoldier for the references, however having read Berberine : by Ray Sahelian, M.D., health benefits , I am not convinced that I should use this product.I am currently following the recommendations L REA has made in his book " Building the perfect beast -naturally" with regard to optimising insulin response and I see no reason to change.
    Anabolic Pump is constituted by both Phellodendron, as well as Tannic and Corosolic Acid; the true 'star', so to speak, in this respect is Tannic Acid.

  23. It's all about the tannins.
    Freedom means nothing here.

  24. And Ray Shelian sells naturopathic products at improper standardization. That page, cora, was advertising.

  25. Please dont get me started on tannic acid which is basic ingredient in the chemical staining of wood. The tannic acid or tannin is already present in woods like oak, walnut, and mahogany. Tannic acid can be applied to woods low in tannin so chemical stains that require tannin content will react.

    the information taken from Wikipedia

  26. Quote Originally Posted by corsaking View Post
    Please dont get me started on tannic acid which is basic ingredient in the chemical staining of wood. The tannic acid or tannin is already present in woods like oak, walnut, and mahogany. Tannic acid can be applied to woods low in tannin so chemical stains that require tannin content will react.

    the information taken from Wikipedia
    lol, You need to expand on your research. Dr.Ray Shelian and Wikipedia are are not necessarily 'worthy' research. If you spent more time you would have found these:

    Antidiabetes and Anti-obesity Activity of Lagerstroemia speciosa

    Guy Klein

    Tannins comprise a large and diverse class of polyphenolic compounds (31,32). Our search for the active components in the tannin fraction of BE was made much easier after we discovered that commercially available tannic acid (TA) shows similar glucose transport stimulatory activity to BE (29). The main components of TA are gallotannins, a subclass of the tannins usually consisting of a glucose core connected to a variable number of galloyl groups via ester bonds (Fig. 5).

    TA is known to exhibit various health-beneficial activities (33–36). As a constituent of red wine, it has been shown to effectively reduce blood glucose levels in type 2 diabetes patients (37) and the production of endothelin-1 (38), a key protein factor intimately involved in the development of cardiovascular disease (38). In our study, TA was found to be much more potent and efficacious than the ellagitannin Lagerstroemin (29). Therefore, TA was chosen as the focus of our research for isolating active compounds from the tannin fraction of BE. Components of TA were separated by HPLC, and active fractions were identified with a glucose uptake assay in 3T3-L1 adipocytes (29). The study led to the discovery of penta-O-galloyl-D-glucopyranose (PGG) as the most effective compound in TA (Fig. 5, 39). Both anomers of PGG occur in nature (40). The α-anomer was found to be slightly more active than the β-form in its glucose transport stimulatory activity (39).

    .....From the known studies, we conclude that tannin molecules are responsible for the insulin-like glucose transport stimulatory activity of the banaba extract. Gallotannins such as PGG appear to be more potent and efficacious than ellagitanins such as Lagerstroemin in IR binding, IR activation and glucose transport induction.
    In this same study, they conclude that Corosolic Acid mediated Glucose uptake is stimulated via indirect, non-insulin dependent pathways; such as the activation of Insulin-reactive protein cascades.

    Natural anti-diabetic compound 1,2,3,4,6-penta-O-galloyl-d-glucopyranose binds to insulin receptor and activates insulin-mediated glucose transport signaling pathwaystar, open

    Yunsheng Lia

    Abstract

    Insulin mimetics from natural sources are potential therapeutics that can act alone or supplement insulin and other anti-diabetic drugs in the prevention and treatment of diabetes. We recently reported the insulin-like glucose transport stimulatory activity of tannic acid (TA) in 3T3-L1 adipocytes. In this study, we find that chemically synthesized 1,2,3,4,6-penta-O-galloyl-β-d-glucopyranose (β-PGG), one of the components of TA, as well as its natural anomer greek small letter alpha-PGG possess activity. Mechanistic studies in adipocytes with greek small letter alpha-PGG, the more potent of the two anomers, reveal that inhibitors that block the insulin-mediated glucose transport, including one that inhibits the insulin receptor (IR), also completely abolish the glucose transport activated by greek small letter alpha-PGG. In addition, greek small letter alpha-PGG induces phosphorylation of the IR and Akt, activates PI 3-kinase, and stimulates membrane translocation of GLUT 4. Receptor binding studies indicate that greek small letter alpha-PGG binds to the IR and affects the binding between insulin and IR by reducing the maximum binding of insulin to IR without significantly altering the binding affinity of insulin to IR. Western blotting analysis of the products of a cross-linking reaction suggests that greek small letter alpha-PGG may bind to IR at a site located on the greek small letter alpha-subunit of the receptor. Animal studies demonstrate that PGG reduces blood glucose levels and improves glucose tolerance in diabetic and obese animals. Our results suggest that PGG may serve as a model for the development of new types of anti-diabetic and anti-metabolic syndrome therapeutics.
    There is no need for the abrasive attitude, especially in respects to your lack of research.

  27. Tannins comprise a very wide variety of polyphenol compounds in plant matter.

  28. Ray Sahelian is a person who uses his credentials to get paid by outside companies to tailor a writeup to suit that companies claims based on the company's product profile and the competitor's products. All in all, he's one that gets used to skew information; He's a pawn.

    Another thing about Wikipedia... while it may be a somewhat useful compilation of facts and tidbits, don't take everything it says verbatim. And as far as tannic acid being part of a wood staining ingredient profile, uhhh... SO WHAT? It has no safety issues whatsoever. It's a potent phytochemical and polyphenol.

    If you're so hefty with Wikipedia, look up sodium benzoate. As many know, it's a common preservative found in almost ALL canned and jarred products. When combined with vitamin C, it has been shown to form a compound called benzene. Benzene is a well known carcinogen.

    Tannic acid has NO safety issues documented to this day.
    Freedom means nothing here.

  29. Dammit Mullet you beat me. You beat me by 5 minutes
    Freedom means nothing here.
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