Anabolic Pump FAQ
- 05-17-2008, 09:08 AM
- 05-17-2008, 10:58 AM
Before I spend almost £40 on this product will someone please explain how Phellodendron the first ingredient, works in this formula .I have searched Google and despite the claim that only USP had heard of this plant/herb ,lots of information is available through Google, quote from one-Phellodendron has been used to treat gastric ulcers, bacterial infections, fungal infections, and diabetes. It has also been used for immunosuppression and as a topical anti-inflammatory agent.
I have no wish to knock this product as anecdotal feedback seems to be good, but if we are trying to create an anabolic window throughout the day , why not eat every 2/3 hours slow release carbs along with good quality protein.This will create an insulin rise ,and shuttle gradually nutrients into the bloodstream , but not a spike as in after training when its wanted.
For me personally supplement companies have to do a lot more hard work and research to convince me to buy their product. So many supplements contain herbs which have been used in folklore medicine for years and for something not related to bodybuilding. As soon as it gets into the bodybuilding arena , for some reason its the icing on the cake to getting the "physique of your dreams!"
So back to where I came in , can someone come up with information that will convince me to buy this product .I am not taken in by advertising claims .
- 05-17-2008, 01:02 PM
So should I take an AP right after my workout, then try having a PWO shake consisting of 50 grams dextrose with 35 grams whey 20 minutes later?
I don't understand how insulin sensitivity (specifically mine, which I doubt could be figured out just by the feel of things after I eat something) could have anything to do with this if I've tried eating at various times after taking the AP. So is it better if one has a higher insulin sensitivity (better for overall health) with this product than a lower sensitivity? Do the non-responders of this product tend to have a high insulin sensitivity?
05-17-2008, 01:10 PM
If you want to increase your own insulin sensitivity see what L.REA has to say about doing just that in his book "Building the perfect beast -naturally "
Before spending money on a product which may or may not work .After youve read what he has to say on insulin, then decide what you want to do
05-17-2008, 01:11 PM
I believe the non-responders may have a higher resistance yes. AP often requires time to increase your sensitivity to insulin before it's full effects are realized. The increased glut4 creates an environment where less insulin is required thus less insulin is released. Over time the decreased levels increase sensitivity. For overall health this is a very good thing as even a cursory exposition to the effect of insulin will reveal it's intrinsically toxic nature.
05-17-2008, 01:17 PM
So do you think I may not be responding because my insulin sensitivity is high or low?
05-17-2008, 01:26 PM
Really, the overall health benefits of AP make any "pump", accelerated muscle gain or fatloss effects take second stage in my book.
05-17-2008, 02:27 PM
As stated, this study explains Berberine's ability to regulate energy expenditure as a whole - rather than simply glucose metabolism - in both myocytes and adipocytes. Further, it inhibited both differentiation and hypertrophy in accumulated lipids, most likely regulating the PPAR family. In terms of the AP-specific glucose effect, it lead to increased levels of GLUT4 in myocytes specifically.Berberine, a Natural Plant Product, Activates AMP-Activated Protein Kinase With Beneficial Metabolic Effects in Diabetic and Insulin-Resistant States
Yun S. Lee1
Berberine has been shown to have antidiabetic properties, although its mode of action is not known. Here, we have investigated the metabolic effects of berberine in two animal models of insulin resistance and in insulin-responsive cell lines. Berberine reduced body weight and caused a significant improvement in glucose tolerance without altering food intake in db/db mice. Similarly, berberine reduced body weight and plasma triglycerides and improved insulin action in high-fat–fed Wistar rats. Berberine downregulated the expression of genes involved in lipogenesis and upregulated those involved in energy expenditure in adipose tissue and muscle. Berberine treatment resulted in increased AMP-activated protein kinase (AMPK) activity in 3T3-L1 adipocytes and L6 myotubes, increased GLUT4 translocation in L6 cells in a phosphatidylinositol 3' kinase–independent manner, and reduced lipid accumulation in 3T3-L1 adipocytes. These findings suggest that berberine displays beneficial effects in the treatment of diabetes and obesity at least in part via stimulation of AMPK activity.
As stated above, AMPk regulates glucose metabolism through insulin-reactive, though not necessarily insulin-dependent, pathways. It has a weak affinity for Akt/PKB which are IR-dependent compounds, whereas both studies show a direct induction of AMPk/p38 MAPK, which are more or less GLUT4 specific kinases. This all leads to lower serum levels of insulin via increased glycogen storage while circumventing insulin's action.Berberine-stimulated glucose uptake in L6 myotubes involves both AMPK and p38 MAPK
Zhe Cheng, Tao Pang, Min Gu, An-Hui Gao, Chuan-Ming Xie, Jing-Ya Li, Fa-Jun Nan and Jia Li
National Center for Drug Screening, Shanghai Institute of Materia Medica, Shanghai Institutes for Biological Sciences, Chinese Academy of Sciences, Shanghai 201203, P. R. China
Received 17 May 2006; revised 13 September 2006; accepted 13 September 2006. Available online 20 September 2006.
Berberine is a plant alkaloid used in traditional Chinese medicine and has been reported to have antihyperglycemic activity in NIDDM patients. However, the molecular basis for this action is yet to be elucidated. Here we investigate the effects and signaling pathways of berberine on L6 rat skeletal muscles. Our study demonstrates that berberine stimulates glucose uptake in a time- and dose-dependent manner. Intriguingly, berberine-stimulated glucose uptake does not vary as insulin concentration increases, and could not be blocked by the PI 3-kinase inhibitor wortmannin. Berberine only weakly stimulates the phosphorylation of Akt/PKB, a key molecule in the insulin signaling pathway, but strongly promotes the phosphorylation of AMPK and p38 MAPK. The effects of berberine are not a result of pro-oxidant action, but a consequence of an increased cellular AMP:ATP ratio. Moreover, berberine-stimulated glucose uptake is inhibited by the AMPK inhibitor Compound C and the p38 MAPK inhibitor SB202190. Inhibition of AMPK reduces p38 MAPK phosphorylation, suggesting that AMPK lies upstream of p38 MAPK. These results suggest that berberine circumvents insulin signaling pathways and stimulates glucose uptake through the AMP-AMPK-p38 MAPK pathway, which may account for the antihyperglycemic effects of this drug.
Lagerstroemia (extracted for both Corosolic and Tannic Acid) works in a corollary manner - creating positive energy turnover ratios between adipocytes and myocytes.
05-17-2008, 02:29 PM
How long have you been using the product?
05-17-2008, 05:39 PM
05-17-2008, 06:34 PM
05-18-2008, 04:36 AM
Thanks to mulletsoldier for the references, however having read Berberine : by Ray Sahelian, M.D., health benefits , I am not convinced that I should use this product.I am currently following the recommendations L REA has made in his book " Building the perfect beast -naturally" with regard to optimising insulin response and I see no reason to change.
Last edited by corsaking; 05-18-2008 at 04:40 AM. Reason: word omitted in book title
05-18-2008, 08:44 AM
05-18-2008, 10:08 AM
It's all about the tannins.
Freedom means nothing here.
05-18-2008, 11:10 AM
And Ray Shelian sells naturopathic products at improper standardization. That page, cora, was advertising.
05-18-2008, 11:38 AM
Please dont get me started on tannic acid which is basic ingredient in the chemical staining of wood. The tannic acid or tannin is already present in woods like oak, walnut, and mahogany. Tannic acid can be applied to woods low in tannin so chemical stains that require tannin content will react.
the information taken from Wikipedia
05-18-2008, 11:44 AM
Antidiabetes and Anti-obesity Activity of Lagerstroemia speciosa
Tannins comprise a large and diverse class of polyphenolic compounds (31,32). Our search for the active components in the tannin fraction of BE was made much easier after we discovered that commercially available tannic acid (TA) shows similar glucose transport stimulatory activity to BE (29). The main components of TA are gallotannins, a subclass of the tannins usually consisting of a glucose core connected to a variable number of galloyl groups via ester bonds (Fig. 5).
TA is known to exhibit various health-beneficial activities (33–36). As a constituent of red wine, it has been shown to effectively reduce blood glucose levels in type 2 diabetes patients (37) and the production of endothelin-1 (38), a key protein factor intimately involved in the development of cardiovascular disease (38). In our study, TA was found to be much more potent and efficacious than the ellagitannin Lagerstroemin (29). Therefore, TA was chosen as the focus of our research for isolating active compounds from the tannin fraction of BE. Components of TA were separated by HPLC, and active fractions were identified with a glucose uptake assay in 3T3-L1 adipocytes (29). The study led to the discovery of penta-O-galloyl-D-glucopyranose (PGG) as the most effective compound in TA (Fig. 5, 39). Both anomers of PGG occur in nature (40). The α-anomer was found to be slightly more active than the β-form in its glucose transport stimulatory activity (39).
.....From the known studies, we conclude that tannin molecules are responsible for the insulin-like glucose transport stimulatory activity of the banaba extract. Gallotannins such as PGG appear to be more potent and efficacious than ellagitanins such as Lagerstroemin in IR binding, IR activation and glucose transport induction.
In this same study, they conclude that Corosolic Acid mediated Glucose uptake is stimulated via indirect, non-insulin dependent pathways; such as the activation of Insulin-reactive protein cascades.
There is no need for the abrasive attitude, especially in respects to your lack of research.Natural anti-diabetic compound 1,2,3,4,6-penta-O-galloyl-d-glucopyranose binds to insulin receptor and activates insulin-mediated glucose transport signaling pathwaystar, open
Insulin mimetics from natural sources are potential therapeutics that can act alone or supplement insulin and other anti-diabetic drugs in the prevention and treatment of diabetes. We recently reported the insulin-like glucose transport stimulatory activity of tannic acid (TA) in 3T3-L1 adipocytes. In this study, we find that chemically synthesized 1,2,3,4,6-penta-O-galloyl-β-d-glucopyranose (β-PGG), one of the components of TA, as well as its natural anomer greek small letter alpha-PGG possess activity. Mechanistic studies in adipocytes with greek small letter alpha-PGG, the more potent of the two anomers, reveal that inhibitors that block the insulin-mediated glucose transport, including one that inhibits the insulin receptor (IR), also completely abolish the glucose transport activated by greek small letter alpha-PGG. In addition, greek small letter alpha-PGG induces phosphorylation of the IR and Akt, activates PI 3-kinase, and stimulates membrane translocation of GLUT 4. Receptor binding studies indicate that greek small letter alpha-PGG binds to the IR and affects the binding between insulin and IR by reducing the maximum binding of insulin to IR without significantly altering the binding affinity of insulin to IR. Western blotting analysis of the products of a cross-linking reaction suggests that greek small letter alpha-PGG may bind to IR at a site located on the greek small letter alpha-subunit of the receptor. Animal studies demonstrate that PGG reduces blood glucose levels and improves glucose tolerance in diabetic and obese animals. Our results suggest that PGG may serve as a model for the development of new types of anti-diabetic and anti-metabolic syndrome therapeutics.
05-18-2008, 11:45 AM
Tannins comprise a very wide variety of polyphenol compounds in plant matter.
05-18-2008, 11:50 AM
Ray Sahelian is a person who uses his credentials to get paid by outside companies to tailor a writeup to suit that companies claims based on the company's product profile and the competitor's products. All in all, he's one that gets used to skew information; He's a pawn.
Another thing about Wikipedia... while it may be a somewhat useful compilation of facts and tidbits, don't take everything it says verbatim. And as far as tannic acid being part of a wood staining ingredient profile, uhhh... SO WHAT? It has no safety issues whatsoever. It's a potent phytochemical and polyphenol.
If you're so hefty with Wikipedia, look up sodium benzoate. As many know, it's a common preservative found in almost ALL canned and jarred products. When combined with vitamin C, it has been shown to form a compound called benzene. Benzene is a well known carcinogen.
Tannic acid has NO safety issues documented to this day.
Freedom means nothing here.
05-18-2008, 11:50 AM
Dammit Mullet you beat me. You beat me by 5 minutes
Freedom means nothing here.
05-18-2008, 12:00 PM
Sorry. It is quite easy to characterize a product, or in the specific case compound, with a sweeping generalization based on one of its applications; however, it is more important to know why it can be used in that respect. TA is used in wood staining treatments as an innate polyphenol-reactor, so to speak - causing a reaction with the Tannins already present within the wood.
It is found in a wide variety of plant-matter, including red wine, and has a myriad of health benefits.
05-18-2008, 05:01 PM
It infortunate I picked the two websites i did to illustrate other uses of the two ingredients because they now have come in for criticism and take the attention away from my original message.
I apologise if i came across too heavy , but the research seems to be directed to preventing type 2 diabetes, reducing blood glucose levels in type 2 diabetes and obese patients.
So why would a healthy individual need this product ?As you can see I am still not convinced.The common denominator in any research always seems to be focused on either animals , or on people who would benefit from the ingredient the most because of some defect in their make up.
If you wish to come back on this please do , but this is as far as i go.Thanks for your time.
05-18-2008, 06:52 PM
05-19-2008, 09:09 AM
05-25-2008, 10:50 AM
I have only used this product for one day and have already noticed the difference, on the first meal alone. No bloat and was actually still hungry, which is really odd since I even increased my carbs by 12g(40g to 52g on that meal). This is an amazing product, just pissed I only bought 2 during the sale.
On the downside, I think I was on the sh!tter 6 times yesterday with the damn runs. Is there any way to offset this? Use more carbs maybe, which I am planning on upping anyways (from 40 to 60-70 from oatmeal)? Of course, this could just be a coincidence and maybe the runs and AP are not correlated.
05-25-2008, 12:21 PM
"Cleansing" effect should taper down and subside with continued use. AP stimulates peristalsis in the intestines and also functions as an anti microbial. These two in conjunction can sometimes cause a change in bowel movement frequency and consistency. I experience the same thing when I first start an AP cycle but after the first week only the first dose of the day has me faithfully in the loo twenty minutes after dosing.
05-25-2008, 12:42 PM
05-25-2008, 01:33 PM
As a drug, berberine has showed some activity against fungal infections, candida, yeast, parasites, and bacterial/viral infections. Don't think it has the negative effects of healthy flora like your typical antibiiotic such as the 'cillins.
05-25-2008, 02:21 PM
Any chance AP is going to go back on sale for $35 any time soon? I really need to stock up, though I just did get 2 more at $38 for the current sale.
05-25-2008, 07:08 PM
If I feel nothing from the AP, do you think it's useless to even try P-Slin?
05-25-2008, 08:37 PM
Not useless. I find many who respond poorly to AP do quite well with P-Slin.
06-17-2008, 10:16 AM
I have few question:
1. As i read AP manual from Mulletsoldier, my body categorized as Carbohydrate Non-Responsive and should take AP 3 times daily. what is the best time to take it? I workout at 4.30 PM.
2. When I just wake up, i drink protein shake. can i take AP with my shake 30 minutes before eat my breakfast? or should i take AP before i have my protein shake.
my breakfast are 80 grams oatmeal, 1 banana, and 1 glass juice of vegetable.
3. Can I stack AP with 3AD anabolic xtreme?
06-17-2008, 11:15 AM
08-13-2008, 03:35 PM
I am expecting some AP in the next few days and would like just a little advice:
I usually work till about 4pm then go home and have a pre workout meal. Then 1.5 hours later i take 3 PowerFULL, and will be taking (its in the same order as the AP) Green Mag as well. 30 mins after this i'll do my workout.
Towards the end of, and after, my workout i'll start drinking Dymatize Mega Gainer (89g's of Carbs, Maltodextrin). About 1 hour later i'll have my dinner/post workout meal, Chicken and wholewheat pasta.
By now it'll be about 8.30-9pm and i'll goto sleep at around 11pm (having a protien shake before last thing before i do). So basically theres a period of 5-6 hours when i constantly digesting. How would i dose the AP during this time?
08-13-2008, 03:38 PM
08-13-2008, 04:20 PM
That would mean taking the final dose DURING my workout. Is that ok?
08-13-2008, 05:50 PM
Freedom means nothing here.
08-13-2008, 06:34 PM
08-18-2008, 09:57 PM
Would there be any benefits from adding some digestive enzymes into the mix when I take my AP?
08-19-2008, 09:12 AM
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