Super Cissus RX - 10% Extract vs. 20% Extract

[Arzi75]

I just posted a question on the Palo Alto Labs forum questioning the superiority of a 20% Cissus extract over a 10 (or 5)% extract - basically asked them either to confirm or debunk the claim that a 20% Cissus extract is not necessarily any more potent than a 10% extract or that for some fitness goals, a 10% (or 5%) extract might even work better (depending on the ketosterone mix in the extract).

To check out the post and the details on the issues I'm currently dealing with, click here Incarnate - 20% Extract vs. 10% Extract.

I have had and still have a wide variety of joint-related issues that I'm currently (and for the last 3-5 years) have been dealing with and decided to purchase a Cissus-based joint-supp to try out along with my usual line-up of NSAIDs and other joint supps like glucosamine, chodroitin acid, and MSM.

Basically, I will want to see if a single Cissus supp can really outmatch or outperform the handful of prescription drugs and other joint supps I'm currently using daily which are admittedly efficient in short-term pain relief, but not really a good long-term solution.

So, can you guys pitch me why I should opt for the 10% extract in Super Cissus RX instead of the 20% extract in Incarnate as - even though I have tried to read and bone up on the subject - I have not been able to make up my mind as it seems that the betterness of the 20% extract is still debatable e.g. for joint support and repair?

PS. If I choose Super Cissus RX, I'll promise to do a non-sponsored day-by-day log of my first e.g. 30 days on it to log my experience. I think I'm truly a good guinea pig for this as I seem to be suffering from every kind or conceivable joint pain currently.

 

[bfjurky]

A similar question was asked on the prosource message board. This was my answer over there.

"What concetration of cissus you want depends on what you want out of the cissus. Cissus has many beneficial properties ranging from joint health to increased fat metabolism to natural test production. Higher ketosterones increase some benefits while reducing others. The original Cissus RX was a 5% product that required excessive suplementation to acheive the anabolic properties.

According to Jacob at USP Labs Super Cissus RX is a 10% product because going higher causes an exponential drop in the joint protection of cissus. Cissus refined to 10% ketosterones was the perfect balance between the joint benefits and the anabolic properties.

USP did produce a highly anabolic compund manufactured from Cissus ketosterones called Symmetry. It has not been re released since the USP relaunch. I am not sure if the ketosterones or other whole herb parts of cissus are active in the weight loss benefits of cissus."

I have also seen some studies that indicate that Cissus has a positive effect on blood sugar levels and that may be the root of it's weight loss benefits. Hopefully Jacob will chime in to add to or correct any of this info.

 

[tattoopierced1]

The use of a Cissus quadrangularis formulation in the management of weight loss and metabolic syndrome.
Oben J, Kuate D, Agbor G, Momo C, Talla X.

Department of Biochemistry, University of Yaoundé I, Yaoundé, Cameroon. [email protected]

AIM: Once considered a problem of developed countries, obesity and obesity-related complications (such as metabolic syndrome) are rapidly spreading around the globe. The purpose of the present study was to investigate the use of a Cissus quadrangularis formulation in the management of metabolic syndrome, particularly weight loss and central obesity. METHODS: The study was a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled design involving 123 overweight and obese persons (47.2% male; 52.8% female; ages 19-50). The 92 obese (BMI >30) participants were randomized into three groups; placebo, formulation/no diet, and formulation/diet (2100-2200 calories/day). The 31 overweight participants (BMI = 25-29) formed a fourth (no diet) treatment group. All participants received two daily doses of the formulation or placebo and remained on a normal or calorie-controlled diet for 8 weeks. RESULTS: At the end of the trial period, statistically significant net reductions in weight and central obesity, as well as in fasting blood glucose, total cholesterol, LDL-cholesterol, triglycerides, and C-reactive protein were observed in participants who received the formulation, regardless of diet. CONCLUSION: Cissus quadrangularis formulation appears to be useful in the management of weight loss and metabolic syndrome.

 

[djl]

Was the formulation used specified??


Edit: Here it is:

Several other dietary supplements (green tea, soy, chromium, selenium, B-vitamins) have only marginal effects in treating obesity but they address other metabolic syndrome symptoms and thus were included in the formulation. Green tea (Camellia sinensis) extracts contain high concentrations of epigallocatchin gallate and may work with other chemicals to increase levels of fat oxidation and thermogenesis [39,40]. Numerous studies on soy (Glycine max) protein show it is associated with a reduction in serum cholesterol and triglyceride levels and suggest it may protect against the development of coronary heart disease [41]. Chromium helps insulin metabolize fat, turn protein into muscle, and convert sugar into energy [42]; thus, chromium supplementation can favorably influence glucose/insulin metabolism, reduce levels of harmful LDL cholesterol, and increase HDL cholesterol [43]. Both humans and animals require selenium for the optimal functioning of the selenoproteins, which reduce the risk of CVD by decreasing lipid peroxidation and influencing the metabolism of the cell-signaling prostaglandins [44]. Lastly, B-vitamins (B-6, B-12 and folic acid) regulate energy metabolism [45], which plays a critical role in obesity management; they also maintain lower homocysteine levels [46], which are closely associated with cardiovascular health benefits.

The purpose of the present study was to examine the efficacy of a Cissus quadrangularis formulation (Cylaris™) containing the above agents in the management of obesity and metabolic syndrome.

and

The Cissus quadrangularis formula, Cylaris™, contains a Cissus quadrangularis extract (supplied by Gateway Health Alliances, Inc, Fairfield, California, USA), standardized to contain a minimum of 2.5% phytosterols and a minimum of 15% soluble plant fiber. The formula also consists of a soy albumin extract (supplied by Gateway Health Alliances, Inc, Fairfield, California, USA); a green tea extract standardized to 22% EGCG and 40% caffeine; niacin bound chromium (ChromeMate™ supplied by InterHealth Nutraceuticals, Inc, Benicia, California, USA); selenium standardized to 0.5% l-Selenomethionine; vitamin B6 (as pyridoxine hydrochloride); vitamin B12 (as cyanocobalamin); and folic acid (supplied by Protein Research, Inc, Livermore, California, USA).

 

[Arzi75]

"What concetration of cissus you want depends on what you want out of the cissus. Cissus has many beneficial properties ranging from joint health to increased fat metabolism to natural test production. Higher ketosterones increase some benefits while reducing others. The original Cissus RX was a 5% product that required excessive suplementation to acheive the anabolic properties.

According to Jacob at USP Labs Super Cissus RX is a 10% product because going higher causes an exponential drop in the joint protection of cissus. Cissus refined to 10% ketosterones was the perfect balance between the joint benefits and the anabolic properties."

Perfect! Thanks bfjurky - your answer crystallized my thoughts on this!

I think I saw a similar answer once, but your post here really singled out the correlation between the different extracts and the different types of health benefits of Cissus superbly!

I think we would all love to go for all of the benefits all at once - the weight loss benefits (incresed metabolism), the joint heath benefits of the 10% extract, and the anabolic effects of the 20% extracts, but I think as my joint health is my primary health concern currently - I will opt to go for the 10% extract as it seems to be the optimal extract for getting the multitude of joint support and repair benefits.

 

[Arzi75]

In the other thread mentioned above, the below comments just in from Dave (from PAL):

[But] the rest of the plant (the parts that are not ketosterones) have antioxidantal properties as well as other benefits.

Basically the reason we dont use a 50%+ extract (or isolating the ketosterones independently) is that the higher extract you get, you have to sacrifice other beneficial parts of the ingredient.

It seems that Cissus is a real cornucopia of health benefits and that you can really experiment with a whole range of different Cissus extracts and get a unique health benefits from each of them!

I think this finally puts an end to the "which Cissus extract is superior" discussion - all of them offer health benefits, you just need to choose the "blend" that goes best with your particular fitness needs.

It's like discussing which is better, drinking green tea or just taking an EGCG extract, or like Dave aptly put it in his answer, eating coffee beans versus just the caffeine extracted out of them!

 

[FrankJ]

Im on the original 5% right now and my joints feel great. I have also noticed increased recovery. I use 2 caps on an empty stomach in the morning, and 2 caps before bed.

I may try the 10% in the near future.

My plan is to use Cissus in between test boosting cycles ( products like T-Force and Activate Extreme ). Im done with the prohormones for a while, I think this will be a healthier way to build muscles.

 

[Arzi75]

Im on the original 5% right now and my joints feel great. I have also noticed increased recovery. I use 2 caps on an empty stomach in the morning, and 2 caps before bed.

Hey FrankJ, I wasn't privy to this Cissus speeding your recovery until just today, as, on another thread, EasyEJL just posted this same observation - probably like minutes before your post!

I started my 10% extract just a week ago, can't yet say though that I would have noticed any significant improvement - some people say that it takes around 2-3 weeks for cissus to kick in its joint healing effects, though.

Are you using bulk 5% or Osteobolin-C?

Keep us posted to your progress, and if you have the time check out my Super Cissus Rx log in the supplement reviews section.

 

[FrankJ]

Im just using USPLabs product, not sure whats in it.

Unless you have been training for decades, its hard to notice increased recovery but I defiantly have noticed it. A lot of it is the reduction of stiff joints and tight muscles/tendons enabling higher frequency and intensity of training. But I am making better gains also, and Im doing my spring/summer cardio program which usually nullifies my gains with weights.

Im not running anything but the cissus so its gotta be the reason.