Cissus stronger than d-bol and Deca
- 11-02-2006, 10:43 PM
- 11-02-2006, 11:02 PM
- 11-02-2006, 11:08 PM
11-02-2006, 11:09 PM
11-02-2006, 11:11 PM
11-02-2006, 11:12 PM
no, i tried, but the words are too small for me to make out (even when i click the magnify button)Originally Posted by rpen22
11-02-2006, 11:14 PM
Just please don't label it as anabolic and give the FDA an excuse to pull it...I just started using cissus this week for arthritis in my back and it definitely helps with the inflammation...
11-02-2006, 11:17 PM
It's comparing Cissus to Durabolin used for healing purposes. Both are said to have an effect on cortisone which inhibits tissue regeneration and repair.
11-02-2006, 11:20 PM
11-02-2006, 11:28 PM
11-02-2006, 11:29 PM
11-03-2006, 07:35 AM
11-03-2006, 12:05 PM
Totally.Originally Posted by stxnas
No one is a bigger fan of Cissus than I am, but misleading titles like this will only weaken it's credibility, when people obviously assume you are talking about anabolism.
I suppose I could say that "L-Tyrosine is 100x stronger than Testosterone" as well. While it's an inane comparison, it would be true that L-Tyrosine is far stronger at increasing dopamine levels than testosterone.
Granted, this comparison is nowhere near that level, and it is an argument that has strong merit, but the title is obviously meant to mislead. Cissus is a remarkable product that doesn't need this sort of hyperbole to build interest. If anything, this only serves to hurt people's perception of cissus, which would be a shame, because it really is one of the few products that lives up to the hype.
11-03-2006, 12:39 PM
I will disagree with you on this one. THe research is not meant to mislead it's REAL research. Durabolin is not a very Powerful anabolic unless you are using 1 gram a week. If someone used 300mgs of Durabolin or 20mgs a day of d-bol compared to 6 grams of cissus a day. The end result would be very similiar but cissus will keep the HPTA functioning.Originally Posted by Flagg
Modern research has shed light on Cissus' ability to speed bone healing by showing it acts as a glucocorticoid antagonist (1,2). Since anabolic/androgenic compounds are well known to act as antagonists to the glucocorticoid receptor as well as promote bone growth and fracture healing, it has been postulated that Cissus possesses anabolic and/or androgenic properties (1,3). In addition to speeding the remodeling process of the healing bone, Cissus also leads to a much faster increase in bone tensile strength. In clinical trials Cissus has led to a fracture healing time on the order of 55 to 33 percent of that of controls. That cissus exerts antiglucocorticoid properties is suggested by a number of studies where bones were weakened by treatment with cortisol, and upon administration of Cissus extract the cortisol induced weakening was halted, and the healing process begun.
While the increased rate of bone healing may be of great significance to persons suffering from chronic diseases like osteoporosis (4), the antiglucocorticoid properties of Cissus are likely of much more interest to the average bodybuilder or athlete, since endogenous glucocorticoids, particularly cortisol, are not only catabolic to bone, but catabolize muscle tissue as well. Numerous studies over the years have suggested that glucorticoids, including the body's endogenous hormone cortisol activate pathways that degrade not only bone, but skeletal muscle tissue as well. A recently published report documented exactly how glucocorticoids (including cortisol) induce muscle breakdown: They activate the so-called ubiquitin-proteasome pathway of proteolysis (5). This pathway of tissue breakdown is important for removing damaged and non-functional proteins. However, when it is overactive during periods of elevated cortisol (e.g disease states, stress, and over-training) excess amounts of normal tissue are broken down as well. By exerting an anabolic, antiglucorticoid effect cissus helps preserve muscle tissue during times of physical and emotional stress.
11-03-2006, 12:41 PM
The title is mis-leading, but after reading some of the attachments and combining that with what I already knew about Cissus I didn't really feel mis-lead. I actually had more of an "a-ha" type response being that I was pretty sure coming into the thread that it wasn't going to say that, "Cissus will get you big gains in three weeks similar to those seen with now banned XYZ..."Originally Posted by Flagg
Anyway, probably a poor choice for the title, but I get what was trying to be said...Oh, and I'm on my first week of Cissus and it rocks!
Edit: FYI, I posted this before seeing USPs response...haven't read it yet, but want to clarify that.
11-03-2006, 12:43 PM
The title makes you click on it and the content supports the title...Originally Posted by stxnas
I also said MAYBE then posted the evidence. You can read and make the judgement. Which is the correct approach to any situation.
11-03-2006, 12:43 PM
11-03-2006, 12:45 PM
just to add
The typical recommended daily dosage of Cissus is 3 to 6 grams to accelerate fracture healing. Safety studies in rats showed no toxic effects at dosages as high as 2000 mg/kg of body weight. So not only is Cissus efficacious, it is also quite safe, in either the dried powder form or the commercially available extract.
11-03-2006, 12:46 PM
Yeah, and I totally understood that and that's why I said that I had an "Aha" response.Originally Posted by USPLabs
I'm not busting on you at all for the post. It's a commonly used type of marketing that is often memorable. The only down side to it is that if somebody is uniformed the wrong message can be received by the consumer due to their lack of diligence. I'm sure many people saw the thread title and wrote it off as "yeah right" and then didn't follow through with the attachments. Sorry if I came off as busting your chops. I didn't mean to come off that way if I did.
11-03-2006, 03:00 PM
You're always going to catch heat for a post comparing any natural product to aas. No harm and everyone's feelings are intact, interesting post.
11-03-2006, 03:16 PM
Originally Posted by wideguy
Not really a sales pitch but information for current Cissus users. CIssus RX is out of stock at every location even mine..
11-03-2006, 03:20 PM
Not in the UK it isn't
My eyes are kind of strained from work so I'll have to read the scanned pages tomorrow.
11-03-2006, 03:31 PM
11-03-2006, 04:03 PM
11-03-2006, 05:48 PM
11-03-2006, 06:22 PM
11-03-2006, 06:38 PM
11-03-2006, 07:00 PM
I don't disagree with the research, I think that it's all very compelling.Originally Posted by USPLabs
I was only commenting on the perception that the title gives. Yes, some people might be compelled to click on a title like that, but I would imagine that many would dismiss such a bold claim on it's surface, and wouldn't bother to read any further.
(Like how most informed people gloss offer any MuscleTech ad, and ignore the accompanying text, knowing it's all crap anyway.)
11-03-2006, 07:20 PM
Understood. This is meant for the current cissus users. I found in compelling.Originally Posted by Flagg
11-03-2006, 07:41 PM
11-03-2006, 07:44 PM
Originally Posted by NO HYPE
It's a great idea. Out of the 3 cycles I've done, I've run cissus in two of them (during and post). The one I didn't use cissus, I tore a hammy.
11-04-2006, 07:48 PM
It is obviously meant as an attention grabber so one will read the article. In that respect. Well done.Originally Posted by USPLabs
Since glucosamine and adequen didn't work for me, I needed to know about this product.
11-05-2006, 01:00 AM
11-05-2006, 08:36 AM
Since the plant sterols are only idnetified by their chemical formulas, we have no way of knowing how strongly they bind to the AR. But this issue is likely muted by the overall poor bioavailability of plant sterols in general. While these compounds may contribute a minor anabolic (and suppressive) effect, the primary mode of action of Cissus is blocking the catabolic action of cortisol.
After a cycle, cortisol is normal but testosterone is low. Normally enough testosterone is present in the body to antagonize enough of the cortisol receptors so a balance is met. Post cycle, the catabolic effects of cortisol dominate; this is one reason we are so prone to losing our hard earned gains we made during our cycle.
Here is what one representative study said about phytosteroids. Essentially, one would have to inject Cissus to see any significant suppressive effect:
: Int J Sport Nutr. 1991 Jun;1(2):170-7. Related Articles, Links
Gamma oryzanol-plant sterol supplementation: metabolic, endocrine, and physiologic effects.
11-15-2006, 09:13 PM
wether it was intended or not intended to mislead...it most certainly does.ppl read that and they think muscle building effects of dbol and deca and not a mere 300/20mg
now i also must note that i am a HUUUUUUUUGE fan of cissus,the stuff is a godsend for me and many ppl i have introduced it to for injury healing and keeping my joints/tendons/etc strong
now even to go further and talk about MEGADOSING cissus.i had shoulder problems and started bangin twelve caps a day for a few weeks.a week into that i felt great(injury//pain wise),two weeks and i was good as new,a little longer and i was better than ever.however i never got any 'dbol like effects' from that many a day which would equate to 7350mg cissus.no 'pumps that made me wanna flex all day' or anything else like it.im nto saying it doesnt have an anabolic/anticatabolic effect,i FULLY believe it does but its not so pronounced as the title of this thread leads us to believe,not by a long shot.
i have that as a control to compare to and then a couple days ago i started using dbol at 45mg/day,which is higher dose than the above mentioned 20mg sure,but my point is.the real dbol kicked in immediately and has substantial tangible physical effects on strength and mass,no bones about it.
so again i love the stuff for pain and inury management,its a miracle in the truest sense of the word for that imo and thats saying something.and i will definately use it for that purpose all the time,and make sure i also use it for pct for its anabolic/anticatabolic albeit much weaker,effect.
god bless cissus rx!its a great post and lets not nitpick on the title and what not.its a fantastic product and i respect the hell out of usp labs no doubt about it.i just dont want to see anything 'muscletechish'
Originally Posted by Flagg
11-15-2006, 09:14 PM
11-15-2006, 09:26 PM
Again if you look at the research posted, Cissus is stronger than D-bol and Deca as an anti-catabolic in bone fractures. If we are talking Muscle Mass, D-bol at 50mgs is by far much more anabolic as its a much more androgenic steroid.Originally Posted by juggernaut333
The study posted was to prove that CISSUS RX is a potent supplement for its purpose. This study gives merit behind the ancedotal reports.
Did d-bol or Deca do this for you (your own quote).
"now i also must note that i am a HUUUUUUUUGE fan of cissus,the stuff is a godsend for me and many ppl i have introduced it to for injury healing and keeping my joints/tendons/etc strong"
Pretty Powerful words for a natural supplement. In the above case, Cissus is stronger than d-bol.
11-16-2006, 10:15 AM
11-16-2006, 10:37 AM
I recently found out that I have a herniated disc at my L5 that which has been the root of chronic pain for the past two years due to causing arthritis and muscular inflamation (which pinches a nerve). I have tried muscle relaxers, anti inflammatories, ice, heat, stretching, etc, etc and nothing worked.Originally Posted by USPLabs
I started taking cissus and within one day I felt it's effects. Now I only exprience pain after sitting for long durations of time. I think cissus will one day be in everybody's medicine cabinents right next to their aspirin.
RcB Since 09-06-2011 20:55 EST, Post 49
11-16-2006, 11:09 AM
Originally Posted by stxnas
To me thats better than any steroid in the world. I am huge but can not sit without pain...lol
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