excuse me, but how can cissus and steroids even be compared on any level?
err.... I find that extremely hard to believe.
Did you read the scans?Originally Posted by getjacked63
no, i tried, but the words are too small for me to make out (even when i click the magnify button)Originally Posted by rpen22
Just please don't label it as anabolic and give the FDA an excuse to pull it...I just started using cissus this week for arthritis in my back and it definitely helps with the inflammation...
It's comparing Cissus to Durabolin used for healing purposes. Both are said to have an effect on cortisone which inhibits tissue regeneration and repair.
Pretty cool research
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Originally Posted by getjacked63
easliy through research like the one posted.
Originally Posted by Rictor33
I did not make up the research guys and I did say maybe...
The study is a little different than what people are thinking when they read the title.
Totally.Originally Posted by stxnas
No one is a bigger fan of Cissus than I am, but misleading titles like this will only weaken it's credibility, when people obviously assume you are talking about anabolism.
I suppose I could say that "L-Tyrosine is 100x stronger than Testosterone" as well. While it's an inane comparison, it would be true that L-Tyrosine is far stronger at increasing dopamine levels than testosterone.
Granted, this comparison is nowhere near that level, and it is an argument that has strong merit, but the title is obviously meant to mislead. Cissus is a remarkable product that doesn't need this sort of hyperbole to build interest. If anything, this only serves to hurt people's perception of cissus, which would be a shame, because it really is one of the few products that lives up to the hype.
I will disagree with you on this one. THe research is not meant to mislead it's REAL research. Durabolin is not a very Powerful anabolic unless you are using 1 gram a week. If someone used 300mgs of Durabolin or 20mgs a day of d-bol compared to 6 grams of cissus a day. The end result would be very similiar but cissus will keep the HPTA functioning.Originally Posted by Flagg
Modern research has shed light on Cissus' ability to speed bone healing by showing it acts as a glucocorticoid antagonist (1,2). Since anabolic/androgenic compounds are well known to act as antagonists to the glucocorticoid receptor as well as promote bone growth and fracture healing, it has been postulated that Cissus possesses anabolic and/or androgenic properties (1,3). In addition to speeding the remodeling process of the healing bone, Cissus also leads to a much faster increase in bone tensile strength. In clinical trials Cissus has led to a fracture healing time on the order of 55 to 33 percent of that of controls. That cissus exerts antiglucocorticoid properties is suggested by a number of studies where bones were weakened by treatment with cortisol, and upon administration of Cissus extract the cortisol induced weakening was halted, and the healing process begun.
While the increased rate of bone healing may be of great significance to persons suffering from chronic diseases like osteoporosis (4), the antiglucocorticoid properties of Cissus are likely of much more interest to the average bodybuilder or athlete, since endogenous glucocorticoids, particularly cortisol, are not only catabolic to bone, but catabolize muscle tissue as well. Numerous studies over the years have suggested that glucorticoids, including the body's endogenous hormone cortisol activate pathways that degrade not only bone, but skeletal muscle tissue as well. A recently published report documented exactly how glucocorticoids (including cortisol) induce muscle breakdown: They activate the so-called ubiquitin-proteasome pathway of proteolysis (5). This pathway of tissue breakdown is important for removing damaged and non-functional proteins. However, when it is overactive during periods of elevated cortisol (e.g disease states, stress, and over-training) excess amounts of normal tissue are broken down as well. By exerting an anabolic, antiglucorticoid effect cissus helps preserve muscle tissue during times of physical and emotional stress.
The title is mis-leading, but after reading some of the attachments and combining that with what I already knew about Cissus I didn't really feel mis-lead. I actually had more of an "a-ha" type response being that I was pretty sure coming into the thread that it wasn't going to say that, "Cissus will get you big gains in three weeks similar to those seen with now banned XYZ..."Originally Posted by Flagg
Anyway, probably a poor choice for the title, but I get what was trying to be said...Oh, and I'm on my first week of Cissus and it rocks!
Edit: FYI, I posted this before seeing USPs response...haven't read it yet, but want to clarify that.
The title makes you click on it and the content supports the title...Originally Posted by stxnas
I also said MAYBE then posted the evidence. You can read and make the judgement. Which is the correct approach to any situation.
true.Originally Posted by USPLabs
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just to add
The typical recommended daily dosage of Cissus is 3 to 6 grams to accelerate fracture healing. Safety studies in rats showed no toxic effects at dosages as high as 2000 mg/kg of body weight. So not only is Cissus efficacious, it is also quite safe, in either the dried powder form or the commercially available extract.
Yeah, and I totally understood that and that's why I said that I had an "Aha" response.Originally Posted by USPLabs
I'm not busting on you at all for the post. It's a commonly used type of marketing that is often memorable. The only down side to it is that if somebody is uniformed the wrong message can be received by the consumer due to their lack of diligence. I'm sure many people saw the thread title and wrote it off as "yeah right" and then didn't follow through with the attachments. Sorry if I came off as busting your chops. I didn't mean to come off that way if I did.
You're always going to catch heat for a post comparing any natural product to aas. No harm and everyone's feelings are intact, interesting post.