getjacked63
Member
excuse me, but how can cissus and steroids even be compared on any level?
getjacked63
Member
rpen22 said:
no, i tried, but the words are too small for me to make out (even when i click the magnify button)
sublimejeh
Well-known member
Pretty cool research
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getjacked63 said:
easliy through research like the one posted.
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Rictor33 said:
I did not make up the research guys and I did say maybe...
Flagg
New member
stxnas said:
Totally.
No one is a bigger fan of Cissus than I am, but misleading titles like this will only weaken it's credibility, when people obviously assume you are talking about anabolism.
I suppose I could say that "L-Tyrosine is 100x stronger than Testosterone" as well. While it's an inane comparison, it would be true that L-Tyrosine is far stronger at increasing dopamine levels than testosterone.
Granted, this comparison is nowhere near that level, and it is an argument that has strong merit, but the title is obviously meant to mislead. Cissus is a remarkable product that doesn't need this sort of hyperbole to build interest. If anything, this only serves to hurt people's perception of cissus, which would be a shame, because it really is one of the few products that lives up to the hype.
Flagg
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Flagg said:
I will disagree with you on this one. THe research is not meant to mislead it's REAL research. Durabolin is not a very Powerful anabolic unless you are using 1 gram a week. If someone used 300mgs of Durabolin or 20mgs a day of d-bol compared to 6 grams of cissus a day. The end result would be very similiar but cissus will keep the HPTA functioning.
Modern research has shed light on Cissus' ability to speed bone healing by showing it acts as a glucocorticoid antagonist (1,2). Since anabolic/androgenic compounds are well known to act as antagonists to the glucocorticoid receptor as well as promote bone growth and fracture healing, it has been postulated that Cissus possesses anabolic and/or androgenic properties (1,3). In addition to speeding the remodeling process of the healing bone, Cissus also leads to a much faster increase in bone tensile strength. In clinical trials Cissus has led to a fracture healing time on the order of 55 to 33 percent of that of controls. That cissus exerts antiglucocorticoid properties is suggested by a number of studies where bones were weakened by treatment with cortisol, and upon administration of Cissus extract the cortisol induced weakening was halted, and the healing process begun.
While the increased rate of bone healing may be of great significance to persons suffering from chronic diseases like osteoporosis (4), the antiglucocorticoid properties of Cissus are likely of much more interest to the average bodybuilder or athlete, since endogenous glucocorticoids, particularly cortisol, are not only catabolic to bone, but catabolize muscle tissue as well. Numerous studies over the years have suggested that glucorticoids, including the body's endogenous hormone cortisol activate pathways that degrade not only bone, but skeletal muscle tissue as well. A recently published report documented exactly how glucocorticoids (including cortisol) induce muscle breakdown: They activate the so-called ubiquitin-proteasome pathway of proteolysis (5). This pathway of tissue breakdown is important for removing damaged and non-functional proteins. However, when it is overactive during periods of elevated cortisol (e.g disease states, stress, and over-training) excess amounts of normal tissue are broken down as well. By exerting an anabolic, antiglucorticoid effect cissus helps preserve muscle tissue during times of physical and emotional stress.
stxnas
Well-known member
Flagg said:
The title is mis-leading, but after reading some of the attachments and combining that with what I already knew about Cissus I didn't really feel mis-lead. I actually had more of an "a-ha" type response being that I was pretty sure coming into the thread that it wasn't going to say that, "Cissus will get you big gains in three weeks similar to those seen with now banned XYZ..."
Anyway, probably a poor choice for the title, but I get what was trying to be said...Oh, and I'm on my first week of Cissus and it rocks! :thumbsup:
Edit: FYI, I posted this before seeing USPs response...haven't read it yet, but want to clarify that.
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stxnas said:
The title makes you click on it and the content supports the title...
I also said MAYBE then posted the evidence. You can read and make the judgement. Which is the correct approach to any situation.
sublimejeh
Well-known member
USPLabs said:
true.
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just to add
The typical recommended daily dosage of Cissus is 3 to 6 grams to accelerate fracture healing. Safety studies in rats showed no toxic effects at dosages as high as 2000 mg/kg of body weight. So not only is Cissus efficacious, it is also quite safe, in either the dried powder form or the commercially available extract.
The typical recommended daily dosage of Cissus is 3 to 6 grams to accelerate fracture healing. Safety studies in rats showed no toxic effects at dosages as high as 2000 mg/kg of body weight. So not only is Cissus efficacious, it is also quite safe, in either the dried powder form or the commercially available extract.
stxnas
Well-known member
USPLabs said:
Yeah, and I totally understood that and that's why I said that I had an "Aha" response.
I'm not busting on you at all for the post. It's a commonly used type of marketing that is often memorable. The only down side to it is that if somebody is uniformed the wrong message can be received by the consumer due to their lack of diligence. I'm sure many people saw the thread title and wrote it off as "yeah right" and then didn't follow through with the attachments. Sorry if I came off as busting your chops. I didn't mean to come off that way if I did.
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wideguy said:
Not really a sales pitch but information for current Cissus users. CIssus RX is out of stock at every location even mine..
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CHAPS said:
great idea if you like your tendons strong..
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RSX-S said:
We have and I will try it but just I..
Flagg
New member
USPLabs said:
I don't disagree with the research, I think that it's all very compelling.
I was only commenting on the perception that the title gives. Yes, some people might be compelled to click on a title like that, but I would imagine that many would dismiss such a bold claim on it's surface, and wouldn't bother to read any further.
(Like how most informed people gloss offer any MuscleTech ad, and ignore the accompanying text, knowing it's all crap anyway.)
Flagg
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Flagg said:
Understood. This is meant for the current cissus users. I found in compelling.
DragonRider
Active member
It is obviously meant as an attention grabber so one will read the article. In that respect. Well done.USPLabs said:
Since glucosamine and adequen didn't work for me, I needed to know about this product.
Iron Warrior
Registered User
NO HYPE: Cissus all yea long bro, cycle or no cycle
skull
Active member
Since the plant sterols are only idnetified by their chemical formulas, we have no way of knowing how strongly they bind to the AR. But this issue is likely muted by the overall poor bioavailability of plant sterols in general. While these compounds may contribute a minor anabolic (and suppressive) effect, the primary mode of action of Cissus is blocking the catabolic action of cortisol.
After a cycle, cortisol is normal but testosterone is low. Normally enough testosterone is present in the body to antagonize enough of the cortisol receptors so a balance is met. Post cycle, the catabolic effects of cortisol dominate; this is one reason we are so prone to losing our hard earned gains we made during our cycle.
Here is what one representative study said about phytosteroids. Essentially, one would have to inject Cissus to see any significant suppressive effect:
: Int J Sport Nutr. 1991 Jun;1(2):170-7. Related Articles, Links
Gamma oryzanol-plant sterol supplementation: metabolic, endocrine, and physiologic effects.
After a cycle, cortisol is normal but testosterone is low. Normally enough testosterone is present in the body to antagonize enough of the cortisol receptors so a balance is met. Post cycle, the catabolic effects of cortisol dominate; this is one reason we are so prone to losing our hard earned gains we made during our cycle.
Here is what one representative study said about phytosteroids. Essentially, one would have to inject Cissus to see any significant suppressive effect:
: Int J Sport Nutr. 1991 Jun;1(2):170-7. Related Articles, Links
Gamma oryzanol-plant sterol supplementation: metabolic, endocrine, and physiologic effects.
juggernaut333
Member
wether it was intended or not intended to mislead...it most certainly does.ppl read that and they think muscle building effects of dbol and deca and not a mere 300/20mg
now i also must note that i am a HUUUUUUUUGE fan of cissus,the stuff is a godsend for me and many ppl i have introduced it to for injury healing and keeping my joints/tendons/etc strong
now even to go further and talk about MEGADOSING cissus.i had shoulder problems and started bangin twelve caps a day for a few weeks.a week into that i felt great(injury//pain wise),two weeks and i was good as new,a little longer and i was better than ever.however i never got any 'dbol like effects' from that many a day which would equate to 7350mg cissus.no 'pumps that made me wanna flex all day' or anything else like it.im nto saying it doesnt have an anabolic/anticatabolic effect,i FULLY believe it does but its not so pronounced as the title of this thread leads us to believe,not by a long shot.
i have that as a control to compare to and then a couple days ago i started using dbol at 45mg/day,which is higher dose than the above mentioned 20mg sure,but my point is.the real dbol kicked in immediately and has substantial tangible physical effects on strength and mass,no bones about it.
so again i love the stuff for pain and inury management,its a miracle in the truest sense of the word for that imo and thats saying something.and i will definately use it for that purpose all the time,and make sure i also use it for pct for its anabolic/anticatabolic albeit much weaker,effect.
god bless cissus rx!its a great post and lets not nitpick on the title and what not.its a fantastic product and i respect the hell out of usp labs no doubt about it.i just dont want to see anything 'muscletechish'
now i also must note that i am a HUUUUUUUUGE fan of cissus,the stuff is a godsend for me and many ppl i have introduced it to for injury healing and keeping my joints/tendons/etc strong
now even to go further and talk about MEGADOSING cissus.i had shoulder problems and started bangin twelve caps a day for a few weeks.a week into that i felt great(injury//pain wise),two weeks and i was good as new,a little longer and i was better than ever.however i never got any 'dbol like effects' from that many a day which would equate to 7350mg cissus.no 'pumps that made me wanna flex all day' or anything else like it.im nto saying it doesnt have an anabolic/anticatabolic effect,i FULLY believe it does but its not so pronounced as the title of this thread leads us to believe,not by a long shot.
i have that as a control to compare to and then a couple days ago i started using dbol at 45mg/day,which is higher dose than the above mentioned 20mg sure,but my point is.the real dbol kicked in immediately and has substantial tangible physical effects on strength and mass,no bones about it.
so again i love the stuff for pain and inury management,its a miracle in the truest sense of the word for that imo and thats saying something.and i will definately use it for that purpose all the time,and make sure i also use it for pct for its anabolic/anticatabolic albeit much weaker,effect.
god bless cissus rx!its a great post and lets not nitpick on the title and what not.its a fantastic product and i respect the hell out of usp labs no doubt about it.i just dont want to see anything 'muscletechish'
Flagg said:
juggernaut333
Member
USPLabs said:
mindandmuscle has a new sponsor that has stock actually at 20/bottle
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juggernaut333 said:wether it was intended or not intended to mislead...it most certainly does.ppl read that and they think muscle building effects of dbol and deca and not a mere 300/20mg
now i also must note that i am a HUUUUUUUUGE fan of cissus,the stuff is a godsend for me and many ppl i have introduced it to for injury healing and keeping my joints/tendons/etc strong
now even to go further and talk about MEGADOSING cissus.i had shoulder problems and started bangin twelve caps a day for a few weeks.a week into that i felt great(injury//pain wise),two weeks and i was good as new,a little longer and i was better than ever.however i never got any 'dbol like effects' from that many a day which would equate to 7350mg cissus.no 'pumps that made me wanna flex all day' or anything else like it.im nto saying it doesnt have an anabolic/anticatabolic effect,i FULLY believe it does but its not so pronounced as the title of this thread leads us to believe,not by a long shot.
i have that as a control to compare to and then a couple days ago i started using dbol at 45mg/day,which is higher dose than the above mentioned 20mg sure,but my point is.the real dbol kicked in immediately and has substantial tangible physical effects on strength and mass,no bones about it.
so again i love the stuff for pain and inury management,its a miracle in the truest sense of the word for that imo and thats saying something.and i will definately use it for that purpose all the time,and make sure i also use it for post cycle therapy for its anabolic/anticatabolic albeit much weaker,effect.
god bless cissus rx!its a great post and lets not nitpick on the title and what not.its a fantastic product and i respect the hell out of usp labs no doubt about it.i just dont want to see anything 'muscletechish'
Again if you look at the research posted, Cissus is stronger than D-bol and Deca as an anti-catabolic in bone fractures. If we are talking Muscle Mass, D-bol at 50mgs is by far much more anabolic as its a much more androgenic steroid.
The study posted was to prove that CISSUS RX is a potent supplement for its purpose. This study gives merit behind the ancedotal reports.
Did d-bol or Deca do this for you (your own quote).
"now i also must note that i am a HUUUUUUUUGE fan of cissus,the stuff is a godsend for me and many ppl i have introduced it to for injury healing and keeping my joints/tendons/etc strong"
Pretty Powerful words for a natural supplement. In the above case, Cissus is stronger than d-bol.
take care
raptor2003
Member
sorry couldn't help it haha
CISSUS WON'T GIVE YOU DECA DIICK LOL
good enough? yeah baby~~~!!!
:bb:
CISSUS WON'T GIVE YOU DECA DIICK LOL
good enough? yeah baby~~~!!!
:bb:
stxnas
Well-known member
USPLabs said:
I recently found out that I have a herniated disc at my L5 that which has been the root of chronic pain for the past two years due to causing arthritis and muscular inflamation (which pinches a nerve). I have tried muscle relaxers, anti inflammatories, ice, heat, stretching, etc, etc and nothing worked.
I started taking cissus and within one day I felt it's effects. Now I only exprience pain after sitting for long durations of time. I think cissus will one day be in everybody's medicine cabinents right next to their aspirin.
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stxnas said:
To me thats better than any steroid in the world. I am huge but can not sit without pain...lol
juggernaut333
Member
were in agreement dont worry.like i said i dont want to nitpick about things.my point was just that by reading the subject most ppl were thinking something totally different.i have nothin but respect for your company.heck i was ,if not THE first,one of the very first customers when u first launched and have been a loyal customer ever since.
it has a nice muscle building punch to it,and regardless of dbol far overshadowing it in that respect.cissus is legal,liver friendly,great for the joints...dbol cant claim any of that!
so yes,on point for healing props cissus is far superior than deca(dont really see it applicable comparison to dbol as its unrelated in that sense)and i will continue to take it for the rest of my life.and i have also generated a good amt of biz recomending it to other ppl.keep on truckin!
it has a nice muscle building punch to it,and regardless of dbol far overshadowing it in that respect.cissus is legal,liver friendly,great for the joints...dbol cant claim any of that!
so yes,on point for healing props cissus is far superior than deca(dont really see it applicable comparison to dbol as its unrelated in that sense)and i will continue to take it for the rest of my life.and i have also generated a good amt of biz recomending it to other ppl.keep on truckin!
USPLabs said:
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juggernaut333 said:
I am open to debate, critisism, and etc. I am human. The industry breeds owners that act superior to the customer. I'm just like the consumer and hold eveyone in the highest regard.
Toche my friend! You do have a great point.
take care
