I have yet to read research that classifies Cissus as a progestin. Where was the "research" found?
However it is quoted that it has androgenic properties in some of the studies. No?
Bibliographic Information
Great info - beat me to the punch! Makes you question its use as pct and explain its anabolic and androgenic potential.
---dont get the wrong idea I love cissus I got a cabinet full --nothing better to take after a cycle or by itself---you just gota to know what your dealing with:study:
Great point. I have found it to be a great product as well - but this is important info when considering potential sides and mode of action.
Did you happen to find this at AVANT forum?
---no---why think its fake?--whats the difference ? you got a great product --people just got to know how ti use it.:icon_lol:
I agree. I feel like we should all know a bit mroe about the products we consume. There is no such thing as magic.
Please link me to the study, However, I have the full-text study and they didn't have access to NMR nor
---sounds like the same,but I found it at BB.com---title does cissus have steroids?---if you prove it wrong that would be fine with me:cheers: [no gyno here just nipple hard on]
I was using Super Cissus and Powerfull for about 2 weeks and I am so sensitive right now I am freaking out. Nothing I read or heard from you guys about these products said this could happen. Because of this I have no serm or anything on hand because I didn't know this was even remotely possible. I have slight pubertal gyno from years ago that is hardly noticable and if these two products permanently enlarge the problem I don't think I'll ever be using anything outside the realm of creatine ever again.
This isn't a PA said so thing. PA posted an abstract with this info. USP says the full text doesn't have this info, but we have not seen the full text. Somebody needs to find it and post it. I read a post from PA awhile ago claiming that after he looked at his own cissus (I think, maybe someone elses) he found no traces of androgens.
Now I know not all phytoestrogens are bad, but we don't know about this one. Especially direct effects in males. I doubt I would use it anytime I would be susceptible(sp) to gyno (on cycle, PCT).
I have had severe gyno, most peple following my logs know this, Had it from superdrol and got rid of alot of it with an Epi, torem and HDX2 cycle.... Im now taking 6g's ED of Super Cissus bulk and dont have a SINGLE problem with any kind of flare up or pain, which if it was a truel strong progestin I would know and would be in immense pain like I was with propadrol.
You're going to make me quote myself.
This was my response since Jacob said:
after he said this:
Jacob is talking about hypocrisy, calls out a product put out that has a ingredient binding to the ER. Isn't that hypocrisy on his part? Cissus is estrogenic, it's not is his write up. I just want everyone to know.
Whoa whoa whoa.
All you have to do is look up that study to get your answer.
I have no idea this product existed FormExtreme. You are confused.
For me it's easy to deterime that Thousands and thousands of Cissus consumers without reports of GYNO or anything estrogen related over 1 study.
I didn't make you quote anything. You can say "I know not all Phytos are bad", but by saying you wouldn't use it anytime you would be susceptible, you display a lack of knowledge on the subject; phytos have a very low binding affinity to Alpha-1 Receptors, and would be highly unlikely (in most cases) to induce or exacerbate Gyno.
Cissus is estrogenic is not proven. In thr study posted it claims Cissus has Phytoestrogens. Again, Nolvadex/clomid is a weak estrogen but does not display unwanted estrogenic effects.
Im not worried, like I said I have a documented history with gyno on this board and if I were taking 6's ED of cissus and it had estrogenic effects/sides it would be quite apparent in my persons and its far from it. Although JC you cant find anything regarding ligement regrowth with cissus and only bone growth I can attest from personal use that the second I discontinue Cissus use I have severe joint discomfort and also when I severely injured myself at the beginning of Jan (check my log and the chat log labeled "when the boss is away") that I used cissus in place of motrin and recovered from wearing a brace to even pick up my 25lb child out of his crib to leg pressing and squating 220lbs and 145lbs respectively for reps without discomfort or pain and can carry satallite dishes up a 28ft ladder now for work with no issue whatsoever.
First off, "estrogenic" doesn't mean "bad". It's also dependent upon the receptor subtype. SERMs like clomiphene and tamoxifen are estrogenic depending upon the tissue and more specifically, the estrogen receptor subtype found in that tissue. They are estrogenic in tissues like bone (ER-beta) and this is good. They are also anti-estrogenic in other tissues such as breast tissue and the hypothalamus/pituitary, generally associated with the ER-alpha subtype.