Chill. Its coming. Max posted this in another thread on Friday.

Originally Posted by Max32

Christ y'all need to get some patience (in my best Axel Rose voice). Bad news kiddies, just spoke with the doc's office, and he is out of town till tuesday. My bloodwork just came back, but cannot be mailed or faxed without his analysis of it. So......we are looking at mid next week. I know, I know, I am pissed as well!

Edit: The guy who was freaking out deleted his post.

Originally Posted by bow

Chill. Its coming. Max posted this in another thread on Friday.




Edit: The guy who was freaking out deleted his post.

LOL, thanks BOW

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Here are the #s pre cycle and post PH cycle, then hotter, retain and activate PCT, and powerFULL after:
-----------
pre: (June 05)
total test: 471 (241-827)
Free test: 9.6 (9.3-26.5)
---------------------------------------------------
post (late sept 05, immediately after hotter at 3 1/2 weeks and a week into powerFULL)
Obviously, they used a different test for these #s, but it looks as though the hotter did what it was designed to do and the powerFULL did not appear to be suppressive (cheers from everyone!!!) My free (active) test more than doubled (activaTE no doubt a positive culprit here as well), estradiol was well under control and total test looks to be on the road to recovery.....

Total test: 257 (250-1100)
Free Test: 2.06 (1.1-2.8)
Free test(2): 53 (35-155)
DHEA sulfate: 156 (110-510)
FSH: 2.6 (1.6-8.0)
LH: 3.4 (1.5-9.3)
estradiol: 27 (13-54)

wow! that's great news! looks like I may have to order somer Powerfull
Thanks for posting your results.

Thanks Max....

For your trouble and easing some minds, I would like to send you some gifts:}

ceosm

Max do you have any information on the possibility that the ingredient in Hotter can corss react when they do the measurement for total test and give a false positive result for both Fre and Total Test? Meaning that the testing procedure mistakes the ingredient in Hotter for test because of particular structural similarities. I have seen a number of studies to this effect but I don't know if I am behind on this and thought that you might have a line into what ALR says about this. Thanks.

Mr.50

Originally Posted by Max32

Here are the #s pre cycle and post PH cycle, then hotter, retain and activate PCT, and powerFULL after:

-----------
pre: (June 05)
total test: 471 (241-827)
Free test: 9.6 (9.3-26.5)
---------------------------------------------------
post (late sept 05, immediately after hotter at 3 1/2 weeks and a week into powerFULL)
Obviously, they used a different test for these #s, but it looks as though the hotter did what it was designed to do and the powerFULL did not appear to be suppressive (cheers from everyone!!!) My free (active) test more than doubled (activaTE no doubt a positive culprit here as well), estradiol was well under control and total test looks to be on the road to recovery.....

Total test: 257 (250-1100)
Free Test: 2.06 (1.1-2.8)
Free test(2): 53 (35-155)
DHEA sulfate: 156 (110-510)
FSH: 2.6 (1.6-8.0)
LH: 3.4 (1.5-9.3)
estradiol: 27 (13-54)

Originally Posted by Mr.50

Max do you have any information on the possibility that the ingredient in Hotter can corss react when they do the measurement for total test and give a false positive result for both Fre and Total Test? Meaning that the testing procedure mistakes the ingredient in Hotter for test because of particular structural similarities. I have seen a number of studies to this effect but I don't know if I am behind on this and thought that you might have a line into what ALR says about this. Thanks.

Mr.50

50, have not heard anything to that effect, but will look into it. I really do not see this as a possibility though....

Originally Posted by USPLabs

Thanks Max....

For your trouble and easing some minds, I would like to send you some gifts:}

ceosm

Sounds good...and no problem with the tests bro

Thx for the bloodwork max.

Mr. 50, you do bring up a valid point. Although I think Max was off of the hotter for a week or so if I remember correctly? If not, then the hotter would def throw yet another monkey wrench into the outcome w/o a doubt.

Thanks Max. If you can see what ALR or one of his guys (or gals) says it would be great. In the mean time I will look for a few of the research studies and try to post them here or at least a link.

Originally Posted by Max32

50, have not heard anything to that effect, but will look into it. I really do not see this as a possibility though....

Steroids. 1980 Dec;36(6):717-21.

Immunological interference of the synthetic aromatase inhibitor 1,4,6-androstatriene-3,17-dione (ATD) and its metabolite(s) in the radioimmunoassay for testosterone.

Donaldson MD, Forest MG.

Radioimmunoassay (RIA) for testosterone (T) in unchromatographed plasma extracts from ATD-treated rats gave spuriously high values for T. Cross-reaction and chromatographic studies subsequently showed that ATD and, to a much greater extent, its metabolite(s) were responsible for this overestimation. Celite column chromatography proved to be an effective way of separating T from ATD and its product(s) of metabolism.

PMID: 7210060

You da man!

Originally Posted by lifted

As I've mentioned afew times thus far, PowerFULL is a saponin-based product that will not cause shutdown.. If saponins shut you down, people are wasting time using tribulus during PCT, especially a high-saponin product..

Pete, they are referring to my using Hotter for PCT. You guys need to realize though that hotter =/= ATD. Methylation changes a compound. Remember, think EQ and dianabol.

I dont really understand all these numbers etc, can we attribute any increase in test to powerFULL, also what mecnisism is powerFULL working through.

P.S.

THanks Max for taking time to do this bro.

It could all be from Powerfull. It could also be that test wasn't actually increased but that the Hotter gave a false positive. So the bottom line is that the bloodwork doesn't look bad but it does not definatively answer our questions.

Originally Posted by rockstar6181

I dont really understand all these numbers etc, can we attribute any increase in test to powerFULL, also what mecnisism is powerFULL working through.

P.S.

THanks Max for taking time to do this bro.

well ****, then soemone else get off their ass and do it! And 1 week on powerfull pulling someone out of post cycle rebound....not likely; it would however have been plenty long enough to cause shutdown, which it did not.

No Max you misunderstand. I am sorry I sounded like I was complaining. All of us, myself included, greatly appreciate your efforts in this blood work and all the other positive feedback you have given us. I was just trying to say that this was the first important step because it is the first feedback we have at all on what is really going on in our bodies with Powerfull. As with any other scientific experiment repeated examination is required to isolate all variables. Again I apologise for sounding ungreatful.

Mr.50

Originally Posted by Max32

well ****, then soemone else get off their ass and do it! And 1 week on powerfull pulling someone out of post cycle rebound....not likely; it would however have been plenty long enough to cause shutdown, which it did not.

Originally Posted by Max32

well ****, then soemone else get off their ass and do it! And 1 week on powerfull pulling someone out of post cycle rebound....not likely; it would however have been plenty long enough to cause shutdown, which it did not.

Chill the hell out. I don't know why you are taking this so damn personal and getting all combative when somebody has something to say about what you posted.

We're saying that the tests are skewed, and that is fact, not opinion. If the tests aren't completely accurate, then you're damn sure the members are gonna say something...do you think we're just gonna turn our heads and take your word for it? I don';t think so bud...even if ATD is methylated, we don't have conclusive evidence if it will or will not skew results...why is that so hard to understand?? You're taking this too personal, and dissing members here like they have no biz questioning the almighty max when they're trying to decide to purchase a product or not. Chill out.

Originally Posted by Mr.50

No Max you misunderstand. I am sorry I sounded like I was complaining. All of us, myself included, greatly appreciate your efforts in this blood work and all the other positive feedback you have given us. I was just trying to say that this was the first important step because it is the first feedback we have at all on what is really going on in our bodies with Powerfull. As with any other scientific experiment repeated examination is required to isolate all variables. Again I apologise for sounding ungreatful.

Mr.50

No, I overeacted and thank you for understanding how everyone was breathing down my neck to get these #s, and then once there here, it's like, sorry not good enough...ya know

Originally Posted by lifted

Chill the hell out. I don't know why you are taking this so damn personal and getting all combative when somebody has something to say about what you posted.

We're saying that the tests are skewed, and that is fact, not opinion. If the tests aren't completely accurate, then you're damn sure the members are gonna say something...do you think we're just gonna turn our heads and take your word for it? I don';t think so bud...even if ATD is methylated, we don't have conclusive evidence if it will or will not skew results...why is that so hard to understand?? You're taking this too personal, and dissing members here like they have no biz questioning the almighty max when they're trying to decide to purchase a product or not. Chill out.

Yes, I said from day one there would be slight issues with the #s had they turned out for the negative, but I have to disagree with you in the sense that these do infact reflect positively on a few different products, albeit, they are skewed. I do not gain anything by anyone buying hotter, powerfull, activaTE, etc....I just got tired of everyone constantly looking over my shoulder to see when I would be getting the #s back, when many could have gone out and one it themselves. I took 50's post wrong, and if you happen to look up one, you will see that. "The almighty max," please, get real bro. And I never "dissed" anyone, just felt if people thought there were so many inherent issues, then they could simply leave work an hour early, and stop by their general pract to take some bloodwork, instead of nagging me and then complaining after results came in, simple as that. I have always liked reading 50's reviews, posts, etc..., so please do not tell me I am "dissing" him

All in all no hard feelings so lets just move on


Mr.50

Originally Posted by Mr.50

All in all no hard feelings so lets just move on


Mr.50

Sounds good to me bro. Hey, also interested in seeing how the transition from GH to pGH goes from the other thread (although the results are skewed,,,jk )

Originally Posted by Max32

Here are the #s pre cycle and post PH cycle, then hotter, retain and activate PCT, and powerFULL after:
-----------
pre: (June 05)
total test: 471 (241-827)
Free test: 9.6 (9.3-26.5)
---------------------------------------------------
post (late sept 05, immediately after hotter at 3 1/2 weeks and a week into powerFULL)
Obviously, they used a different test for these #s, but it looks as though the hotter did what it was designed to do and the powerFULL did not appear to be suppressive (cheers from everyone!!!) My free (active) test more than doubled (activaTE no doubt a positive culprit here as well), estradiol was well under control and total test looks to be on the road to recovery.....

Total test: 257 (250-1100)
Free Test: 2.06 (1.1-2.8)
Free test(2): 53 (35-155)
DHEA sulfate: 156 (110-510)
FSH: 2.6 (1.6-8.0)
LH: 3.4 (1.5-9.3)
estradiol: 27 (13-54)

I think one important thing to note is that even if the total test is skewed somehow by lingering ATD metabolite, LH and FSH are still elevated (albeit low normal)...if shutdown occurred, they would be closer to 0 unless powerfull caused some sort of slow shutdown and they are on the decline.

Thanks for the blood draw, at least we know now that powerfull doesnt cause shutdown at least immediately.

Originally Posted by bigpetefox

As I've mentioned afew times thus far, PowerFULL is a saponin-based product that will not cause shutdown.. If saponins shut you down, people are wasting time using tribulus during PCT, especially a high-saponin product..

I want to elaborate on this a bit. I found this study http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...504&query_hl=1 showing that the reason protodioscin (the active in tribulus) works is because it converts to DHEA.

My question is whether DHEA supplementation has caused suppression...I dont think it has, as people use it for PCT, but wouldnt longterm administration of DHEA cause some suppression?

Originally Posted by Max32

well ****, then soemone else get off their ass and do it!

There's more to come. I'm having blood drawing in the next 24 hours and should have results in the next 48. It will be exactally two weeks on Powerfull and more than six weeks off from any AI, SERM's, etc. Tests will be for liver, kidney, lipids and total test. LH, FSH and Free Test will not be included.

Originally Posted by bow

There's more to come. I'm having blood drawing in the next 24 hours and should have results in the next 48. It will be exactally two weeks on Powerfull and more than six weeks off from any AI, SERM's, etc. Tests will be for liver, kidney, lipids and total test. LH, FSH and Free Test will not be included.

sounds good man. I wanted to run liver tests, but my lipids have been next to perfect as of late (last test, total chol of 109 and triglycerides @ 16 !!)

Originally Posted by Max32

Yes, I said from day one there would be slight issues with the #s had they turned out for the negative, but I have to disagree with you in the sense that these do infact reflect positively on a few different products, albeit, they are skewed. I do not gain anything by anyone buying hotter, powerfull, activaTE, etc....I just got tired of everyone constantly looking over my shoulder to see when I would be getting the #s back, when many could have gone out and one it themselves. I took 50's post wrong, and if you happen to look up one, you will see that. "The almighty max," please, get real bro. And I never "dissed" anyone, just felt if people thought there were so many inherent issues, then they could simply leave work an hour early, and stop by their general pract to take some bloodwork, instead of nagging me and then complaining after results came in, simple as that. I have always liked reading 50's reviews, posts, etc..., so please do not tell me I am "dissing" him

I never said you gained anything by running the tests. I said you need to chill out when guys are asking or rather pointing out flaws in the testing procedures and you say things like "well ****, then soemone else get off their ass and do it!"....That isn't flying off the handle? You gimme a break...

Fair enough, you apologized, discussion is over.