Another Cissus log...

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    Another Cissus log...


    Ok, my Cissus RX bottle arrived today.


    I've had pretty awful tendonitis in my left elbow for about a month now. I've been resting it for several weeks to help it heal. Last Tuesday I tried doing a chest/tricep workout again with light weights and only about 12 sets. After the workout I was in such agony I could barely drive home. Intense stretching only relieved the pain for about 20 seconds. I caved in and popped 3 Advil and within an hour the pain subsided. It came back, though much lessened about 6 hours later. The next day it was only a slightly nagging ache, and last Thursday the pain was gone. Since then my left elbow occasionally has tiny pain flare-ups that last a few seconds and then go away.

    Today I'm going to do another chest/tricep workout. I have taken my first Cissus dose (3 caps) this morning. I'll be taking the second dose about 30-45 minutes before my workout. I don't expect much today though. It is only my first day, and last week the workout resulted in a lot of pain so just 1 week isn't enough for really significant improvement.

    Anyway, so here begins my Cissus log. I'm hoping for the best.

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    Ok, here was my workout:

    DB flat bench:
    50x20
    65x15
    75x12
    85x12

    Pec Deck Flye (all the cable flye stations were being used)
    90x20
    130x15
    145x15
    160x12

    Tricep Rope Pulldown
    30x20
    40x15
    50x12
    40x12

    I dropped the weight down on that last one because I felt I wasn't getting good enough reps at 50.


    Started to feel some mild discomfort during the last couple sets of rope pulldown. After my workout I put BioFreeze gel on my left elbow. It seems to work to mask pain. While driving home I could tell there was some pain in my left elbow. The BioFreeze stuff though made my elbow feel like there was a burning cold sensation which overpowered any pain. Thus it took my mind off the pain that was there and I was able to drive home without much discomfort.

    There is a slight throbbing in my elbow now still, but it doesn't really hurt persay. It does however feel weak.


    Btw, as a strength reference, before the tendonitis kicked in a month ago, I was doing 120x8-10 for DB flat bench.
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    Thanks for the log Null, I'll be watching. Do you have any idea how long it should take cissus to "kick in"? I'm curious if it helps quickly (a week or so) or if it takes several weeks like gluc/chon/msm type stuff. Thanks and good luck!


    dd
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    Quote Originally Posted by diamonddave
    Thanks for the log Null, I'll be watching. Do you have any idea how long it should take cissus to "kick in"? I'm curious if it helps quickly (a week or so) or if it takes several weeks like gluc/chon/msm type stuff. Thanks and good luck!


    dd
    dd,

    I had severe tendonitis in both elbows from jiu-jitsu, and the cissus took less than a week to kick in. At the one week mark with 4.8g ED, I was almost 100% pain free.

    Null, log looks good. I hope your experience with cissus is as positive as mine was. Best of luck!

    Cheers!
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsutter55
    dd,

    I had severe tendonitis in both elbows from jiu-jitsu, and the cissus took less than a week to kick in. At the one week mark with 4.8g ED, I was almost 100% pain free.

    Null, log looks good. I hope your experience with cissus is as positive as mine was. Best of luck!

    Cheers!
    So you were taking 8 caps per day? I'm only taking 6 per day, do you think I should bump up the dose until the tendonitis is gone?
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    Thanks for the info jsutter55. If Nullifidian gets similar results, I'll have to break down & give it a try. I've been using Omega's new joint compound with a lot of success lately. All of my joint issues have gone away EXCEPT for my elbow tendonitis. There might be a killer joint stack lurking here.

    dd
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    Hard to say....


    Quote Originally Posted by Nullifidian
    So you were taking 8 caps per day? I'm only taking 6 per day, do you think I should bump up the dose until the tendonitis is gone?
    Null,

    My reasoning for 8 caps per day came from the text that Bobo posted in the "Cissus Quadrangularis" thread...

    The typical recommended daily dosage of Cissus extract is between 100 and 500 mg, depending on the concentration of the extract and the severity of symptoms. For the powder of the dried plant, the Ayurvedic texts recommend a dosage of 3 to 6 grams to accelerate fracture healing. Safety studies in rats showed no toxic effects at dosages as high as 2000 mg/kg of body weight. So not only is Cissus efficacious, it is also quite safe, in either the dried powder form or the commercially available extract

    I decided to aim for the mid-range and 8 caps was just about right.

    As far as increasing your dose to 8 caps, that's going to be up to you. I'm always in favor of taking as little of anything as possible to achieve the desired effect. If you can get relief with 6 caps, there's no need to take 8.

    On the other hand... it sucks to be in pain, and I know you want relief ASAP. I just don't want to say that you'll get better or faster results by taking more product (since that might not be the case), so I'll just say what worked for me and let you make the call.

    Cheers!
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    Quote Originally Posted by diamonddave
    Thanks for the info jsutter55. If Nullifidian gets similar results, I'll have to break down & give it a try. I've been using Omega's new joint compound with a lot of success lately. All of my joint issues have gone away EXCEPT for my elbow tendonitis. There might be a killer joint stack lurking here.

    dd
    dd,

    I know... I read your excellent log over in Custom's section. It was a great read and the product sounds VERY promising. I have a log in this section (cut short by torn groin muscle(s)) entitled "Cissus vs. tendonitis". I've been wanting to recommend Cissus to EVERYONE with tendonitis, but two things were holding me back:

    1. I don't work for Synergy, and I didn't want people to perceive incorrectly that I was "pimping" Cissus all over the AM board.

    2. It's hard to say for certain if someone's pain is actually tendonitis, or possibly something more serious. I sure don't want to be the guy that recommended aspirin for a gunshot wound if you get my drift.

    My experience with Cissus was great, and I feel that Synergy has a real winner on their hands with this one. So if someone is quite certain they are experiencing tendonitis, then I have no reservations about telling them to give Cissus a shot.

    Cheers!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nullifidian
    Ok, here was my workout:

    DB flat bench:
    50x20
    65x15
    75x12
    85x12

    Pec Deck Flye (all the cable flye stations were being used)
    90x20
    130x15
    145x15
    160x12

    Tricep Rope Pulldown
    30x20
    40x15
    50x12
    40x12

    I dropped the weight down on that last one because I felt I wasn't getting good enough reps at 50.


    Started to feel some mild discomfort during the last couple sets of rope pulldown. After my workout I put BioFreeze gel on my left elbow. It seems to work to mask pain. While driving home I could tell there was some pain in my left elbow. The BioFreeze stuff though made my elbow feel like there was a burning cold sensation which overpowered any pain. Thus it took my mind off the pain that was there and I was able to drive home without much discomfort.

    There is a slight throbbing in my elbow now still, but it doesn't really hurt persay. It does however feel weak.


    Btw, as a strength reference, before the tendonitis kicked in a month ago, I was doing 120x8-10 for DB flat bench.
    Was this your first workout on Cissus?
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    Yes

    Update on pain: I don't have any today. Tomorrow will be the real test. Last week I wasn't even able to do BB rows at all; my arm simply gave out under any weight no matter how light.
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    As i read this i am sitting out of submission wrestling class because my left arm is weak with pain.. I cant even do light training or it starts to hurt. Ill be giving cissus a try, because flax and fish oil, and ibuprofen dont make itable for me to train through this pain.

    good luck, i hope i get decent results like jsutter
    kris
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nullifidian
    Yes

    Update on pain: I don't have any today. Tomorrow will be the real test. Last week I wasn't even able to do BB rows at all; my arm simply gave out under any weight no matter how light.
    Your last workout without Cissus was painful.

    "Last Tuesday I tried doing a chest/tricep workout again with light weights and only about 12 sets. After the workout I was in such agony I could barely drive home. Intense stretching only relieved the pain for about 20 seconds. I caved in and popped 3 Advil and within an hour the pain subsided."

    Did you experience the above with your first day of Cissus?

    ceosm
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    Nope. Which I consider excellent and in all honesty more than would be expected from rest alone. That's why tomorrow I am going to do a workout that simply wouldn't have even been possible last week. If tomorrow's workout is possible, or better yet possible and results in not too much pain, then IMO that will pretty much prove conclusively for me that it doesn't just work, it works friggin well.
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    The big test came, and the results are: this stuff is a ####ing godsend. Here was the workout (keep in mind I suck at deadlifts):

    Deadlifts:
    135x20
    225x12
    275x10
    315x6

    Bent-over BB Rows (simply wasn't possible last week):
    135x15
    165x12
    185x10
    225x6

    DB Lateral Raises:
    15x20
    20x15
    25x12
    30x10

    Hammer Strength Military Press (assuming levers weigh nothing):
    90x15
    140x12
    160x10
    180x8


    Yes I'm not at my strongest. However the pain that resulted from the workout was .... GOOSE EGG. NADA. ZIP. ZERO. ZILCH. I didn't even have to put biofreeze on my elbow. Now that the pain is gone I'll take it for another week or two and then try working out without it. Because right now I can't be sure if it is simply pain relief or if the tendons have really healed. I'm noticing increased strength from my previously injured state but not full strength so I think there is definitely some healing that has already occurred.


    In any case, for the safe pain relief alone this stuff is awsome.
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    Nullifidian, did you end up raising your dose to 8 caps? Or did you stick with 6? Sorry if this answer is embedded in the posts above. I scanned them and didn't see the answer.


    Thanks,
    dd
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    jsutter, are you still taking cissus? If not, how has your pain done since being off? Did the cissus help actual healing or just help while on?

    thanks,
    dd
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    Still on 6 caps per day. I took jsutter's advice: if 6 caps works, there's no need to bump it up any higher.

    I'm really excited about next week's workouts. I'm goig to add a 4th day to my workout schedule next week. I dropped down to 3 days to accomodate my elbow, but now that things seem to be healing I'll try adding a day specifically for shoulders.

    Monday: legs
    Tuesday: chest/tricep
    Wednesday: off
    Thursday: back
    Friday: shoulders

    If you're wondering why I don't train biceps, it's because they are already overdeveloped in comparison to my triceps and I'm looking to hopefully compete next year.
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    Nullifidian is right about this stuff. Got mine Monday and I am taking 6 caps aday. My wrist got banged up a few weeks ago and its been in pain since. But today almost no pain and I haven't been taking it like they recommend. Instead of 3 AM and 3 right before WO I have been taking the other 3 at night.
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    All right. You guys convinced me. I just placed an order.

    dd
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    Yep, I ordered some as well for my shoulder. Hopefully I'll be getting it today.
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    Quote Originally Posted by diamonddave
    jsutter, are you still taking cissus? If not, how has your pain done since being off? Did the cissus help actual healing or just help while on?

    thanks,
    dd
    dd,

    I'm still interested in taking it, but my CissusRX hasn't shown up yet...

    I quit taking it after I tore the muscles in my groin in a grappling session on March 8th. I'm still unable to train right now. The muscles in my leg have healed, but I also tore them away from my pubic bone, and that part of the injury is still giving me quite a bit of trouble. Since I'm not able to grapple, I have no symptoms.

    There was a definite analgesic effect during the first week, but even as I increased my workload (more sessions per workout) there was still no pain. In my opinion (and it's just that... an opinion) the real "healing" begins after the first week of use. My original plan was to use Cissus for at least 4-6 weeks.

    Cheers!
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    jsutter, my knowledge of human physiology isn't too good but I always that muscles were connected to bones by tendons. If that is true, would Cissus help heal that groin injury?

    It's certainly something to think about.
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    Excellent!


    Quote Originally Posted by Nullifidian
    Still on 6 caps per day. I took jsutter's advice: if 6 caps works, there's no need to bump it up any higher.
    Null,

    Glad to hear you're coming along nicely. One thing that I think is REAL IMPORTANT about taking Cissus if I may:

    If you are experiencing severe pain (sorry.. I know that's a bit subjective) from tendonitis, I think it's important to decrease your workload initially as Null did to help foster the healing effect. It is unlikely that Cissus will actually "heal" you in a week's time if you have already arrived at that point. Give your tendons a rest while you enjoy the pain-relief from the initial week or so of dosing, then bring your activity level back up as your body allows while the Cissus actually begins its repair work.

    That's not directed at anyone, just wanted to put it out there as my .02

    Cheers!
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    That's the ticket...


    Quote Originally Posted by Nullifidian
    jsutter, my knowledge of human physiology isn't too good but I always that muscles were connected to bones by tendons. If that is true, would Cissus help heal that groin injury?

    It's certainly something to think about.
    Bingo!

    That was my plan from the beginning, but cissus wasn't in stock until two weeks after my injury. I was going to do another log, but I think too much time has passed now that I don't feel it would be a good test.

    It's a shame too, I had some great pictures of my black and blue groin to show everyone....

    At this point I've had over a month to heal on my own, but I'm still interested to see how it works on the remaining problems I have.

    Rest assured I'll be keeping an eye on you, dd, and Kristopher to see how things turn out.

    Cheers!
    Last edited by jsutter55; 04-15-2005 at 05:32 PM. Reason: Remove redundant reference :)
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    Thumbs up


    I have been looking over these logs of this supp. Looks great, I have overuse injuries from years of commercial fishing and other labor intesive methods of bringing in the green. My shoulders in particular sometimes hurt so bad I can't even lie on my back without support under my arms. I never use any painkillers unless it is just unbearable. I went for a 6 hr balls to the walls snowmachine ride 3 days ago and I am still in quite some discomfort. I am going to order some today since there seems to be positive feedback. Good log thanks.
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    DB flat bench:
    60x15
    85x12
    95x10
    105x9
    115x7

    Pec Deck Flyes:
    130x20
    160x12
    175x10
    190x8

    Tricep Rope Pulldown
    35x25
    50x13
    55x12
    57.5x11

    If you're wondering about the 57.5 in pulldown, the weight stack goes up in increments of 7.5 pounds.

    Anyway, no pain. It was as if I never had tendonitis in the first place. Strength isn't what it was, but it is getting darn close.
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    Anyway, no pain.


    Damn, I hope mine shows up today.
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    Next week I'm going to try putting up either 120s or 125s for my final set. When I stop progressing in either reps or weight, I'll change up to barbell.
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    Please still progress slowly with the weight. P`in may be gone but healing is not overnight.

    ceosm
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    You have a point. I'm just so eager to be working again with weights that actually challenge me. I feel like I've stopped growing because I can't work with heavy enough weights.
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    Back day.


    Deadlifts:
    135x20
    225x12
    315x8
    365x4

    Hammerstrength Underhand Pulldown:
    140x15
    180x12
    200x10
    220x10

    Low Cable Row:
    120x15
    140x12
    160x10
    180x7

    Once again no pain. None whatsoever. I'm getting noticeably better at deadlifts also.
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    Friday Shoulder workout:

    DB Lateral Raises (thumbs pointed down):
    15x15
    20x12
    25x10
    30x8

    DB Front Raises (thumbs pointed up, dumbells touch at the top of the motion)
    20x15
    25x12
    30x12
    35x10

    Hammer Strength Behind the Neck Press (I tried BB behind-the-neck, but I couldn't do it)

    90x15
    140x?? (Not sure, I lost count and just repped to failure)
    160x12
    170x8


    Shoulders burned, but that's just from the pump. I hate the way my shoulders feel when pumped. With most muscles, they just feel bigger. But with my shoulders the pump always causes a burning ache.
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    Chest/tricep day -

    DB flat bench:
    60x15
    90x12
    100x11
    110x9
    120x8

    Pec Deck Flye:
    130x15
    165x12
    180x12
    195x10
    205x8

    Close grip BB flat bench:
    95x15
    135x12
    165x10
    185x5 (+1 forced rep)

    My tris were completely burnt by the end of the last set of closegrip. I fortunately had a spot who helped me with a forced rep.

    I didn't feel uncomfortable raising up those 120s on DB flat bench. I actually was seriously contemplating trying the 130s for maybe 4 reps or something, but then decided against it. Maybe next week.


    btw, I don't log my leg day because 1) it has nothing to do with my elbow and 2) It's weird because I'm only using my left leg (my left leg is more than 1 inch smaller than my right in circumference). So I'm trying to correct the imbalance by lifting with just my left for now. It may take a couple months for them to even out though.
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    Back -


    Deadlifts (wide stance; grip between legs):
    135x15
    225x12
    315x6
    365x4
    405x2
    455x1

    Hammerstrength Underhand Pulldown:
    140x15
    180x12
    200x10
    220x10
    240x8

    One-arm cable rows:
    50x15
    60x12
    70x10
    80x8
  

  
 

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