- 01-20-2005, 07:09 PM
- 6'1" 221 lbs.
- Join Date
- Nov 2002
- Rep Power
Cissus quadrangularis is an ancient medicinal plant native to the hotter parts of Ceylon and India. It was prescribed in the ancient Ayurvedic texts as a general tonic and analgesic, with specific bone fracture healing properties. Modern research has shed light on Cissus' ability to speed bone healing by showing it acts as a glucocorticoid antagonist (1,2). Since anabolic/androgenic compounds are well known to act as antagonists to the glucocorticoid receptor as well as promote bone growth and fracture healing, it has been postulated that Cissus possesses anabolic and/or androgenic properties (1,3). In addition to speeding the remodeling process of the healing bone, Cissus also leads to a much faster increase in bone tensile strength. In clinical trials Cissus has led to a fracture healing time on the order of 55 to 33 percent of that of controls. That cissus exerts antiglucocorticoid properties is suggested by a number of studies where bones were weakend by treatment with cortisol, and upon administration of Cissus extract the cortisol induced weakening was halted, and the healing process begun.
While the increased rate of bone healing may be of great significance to persons suffering from chronic diseases like osteoporosis (4), the antiglucocorticoid properties of Cissus are likely of much more interest to the average bodybuilder or athlete, since endogenous glucocorticoids, particularly cortisol, are not only catabolic to bone, but catabolize muscle tissue as well. Numerous studies over the years have suggested that glucorticoids, including the body's endogenous hormone cortisol activate pathways that degrade not only bone, but skeletal muscle tissue as well. A recently published report documented exactly how glucocorticoids (including cortisol) induce muscle breakdown: They activate the so-called ubiquitin-proteasome pathway of proteolysis (5). This pathway of tissue breakdown is important for removing damaged and non-functional proteins. However, when it is overactive during periods of elevated cortisol (e.g disease states, stress, and overtraining) excess amounts of normal tissue are broken down as well. By exerting an anabolic, antiglucorticoid effect cissus helps preserve muscle tissue during times of physical and emotional stress.
Although the bulk of the research on Cissus centers around bone healing, the possibility exists that Cissus may act to improve bone healing it may improve the healing rate of connective tissue in general, including tendons. If this is the case it would be of great benefit to bodybuilders and athletes.
Besides the above-mentioned properties of Cissus, the plant is also rich in the vitamins/antioxidants vitamin C and beta-carotene. As analyzed, Cissus quadrangularis contained ascorbic acid 479 mg, and carotene 267 units per 100g of freshly prepared paste in addition to calcium oxalate (6).
The typical recommended daily dosage of Cissus extract is between 100 and 500 mg, depending on the concentration of the extract and the severity of symptoms. For the powder of the dried plant, the Ayurvedic texts recommend a dosage of 3 to 6 grams to accelerate fracture healing. Safety studies in rats showed no toxic effects at dosages as high as 2000 mg/kg of body weight. So not only is Cissus efficacious, it is also quite safe, in either the dried powder form or the commercially available extract.
Cissus also possess analgesic properties on a mg per mg basis comparable to aspirin or anti-inflammatory drugs like ibuprofen. Cissus quadrangularis constitutes one of the ingredients of an Ayurvedic preparation, `Laksha Gogglu', which has been proved to be highly effective in relieving pain, reduction of swelling and promoting the process of healing of the simple fractures as well as in curing the allied disorders associated with fractures (7). The mechanism through which Cissus exerts its analgesic and anti-inflammatory properties has not been well characterized. It may act centrally, but the anti-inflammatory features suggest that it acts by preventing the conversion of arachidonic acid to inflammatory prostaglandins.
1) Chopra SS, Patel MR, Awadhiya RP. Studies of Cissus quadrangularis in experimental fracture repair : a histopathological study Indian J Med Res. 1976 Sep;64(9):1365-8
2) Chopra SS, Patel MR, Gupta LP, Datta IC. Studies on Cissus quadrangularis in experimental fracture repair: effect on chemical parameters in blood Indian J Med Res. 1975 Jun;63(6):824-8.
3) PRASAD GC, UDUPA KN. EFFECT OF CISSUS QUADRANGULARIS ON THE HEALING OF CORTISONE TREATED FRACTURES. Indian J Med Res. 1963 Jul;51:667-76.
4) Shirwaikar A, Khan S, Malini S. Antiosteoporotic effect of ethanol extract of Cissus quadrangularis Linn. on ovariectomized rat. J Ethnopharmacol. 2003 Dec;89(2-3):245-50.
5) Combaret L, Taillandier D, Dardevet D, Bechet D, Ralliere C, Claustre A, Grizard J, Attaix D Glucocorticoids regulate mRNA levels for subunits of the 19 S regulatory complex of the 26 S proteasome in fast-twitch skeletal muscles. Biochem J. 2004 Feb 15;378(Pt 1):239-46.
6) Chidambara Murthy KN, Vanitha A, Mahadeva Swamy M, Ravishankar GA. Antioxidant and antimicrobial activity of Cissus quadrangularis L. J Med Food. 2003 Summer;6(2):99-105.
7) Panda, J Res Ayurv Siddha, 1990, 11, 7For answers to board issues, read the Suggestion and News forum at the bottom of the main page.
- 02-02-2005, 10:05 AM
i just ordered some of this. I am curious if this may speed up the healing process in my biceps tendon (severe tendonitis) if it does, you got yourself one hell of a testimonial!!
- 02-02-2005, 10:57 AM
Originally Posted by Bobo
This fact alone me be the final selling point for me to include in my PCT regimin following my current cycle. While on SERM's and 6-OXO, my joints get extremely dry and sore. Combine that with chronic joint problems and if this proves to be true, may be a godsend for people like me during PCT.
02-02-2005, 09:24 PM
There is a a journal log at synergymuscle.com and here is an exert from his update only the second say on cAMPHIBOLICOriginally Posted by bow
"Side effects, Mood, Thoughts, Etc.
I have a chronic brachialis injury I have been "managing" since Nov 03.
It pretty much always hurts after a hard night of climbing and sometime it just hurts. My arm did not bother my at all tonight. No dull, sharp, or even thoughts of pain. So I guess there are some nice analgesic properties here. Sweet.
My feet are sweatier than usual (with socks on). I have wet underarms easier even though I am still using the same deodarant, etc. It s also 30-40 degrees outside."
02-07-2005, 08:13 AM
Originally Posted by USPLabs
02-07-2005, 01:42 PM
02-07-2005, 01:46 PM
you can contact supaman if needed. Here is another exert.
Side effects, Mood, Thoughts, Etc.
Went bouldering today. TOok my cAMPHIBOLIC today 2 at a time. ENded up taking 9 total i believe. I wasn't tired from this, but the past few days I think I forgot to toke my ALCAR and choline which may have been making me "feel" tired.
Climbing was good felt strong though I'm due a rest week.
Arm feels great the CISSUS rules, if I do stop takling cAMPHIBLIC I'll try and get that stuff standalone. But hey I''m gonna be taking green tea forever anyway so I may just make cAMPHIBOLIC part of my base regimen. So far the results are just awesome. My mood has been good, my strength has been going up, I'm getting leaner, vascularity after a meal is enhanced, chronic injuries don't hurt, and I look nice and dry. THe drowsiness sometimes encountered could be a con, but I can't say for certain its from this.
02-07-2005, 10:32 PM
I have not noticed any drowsiness as of yet. My pain is from both the left shoulder (bursitis) and the biceps tendon. I may have a SLAP lesion in my left shoulder, which I have read can lead to biceps tendonitis. I will let everyone know how my progress comes along though....Originally Posted by USPLabs
02-09-2005, 04:15 PM
I am also wondering if this product would prove useful post surgery, where lifting was out of the question for about 3-4 weeks or so.....
02-09-2005, 04:32 PM
The cissus research was done on fractured bones so it was used for post recovery.
Forskolin will keep you lean by liberating fat, elevating thyroid output while your calorie expenditure is low, and preserving LBM. Green tea has many anti oxidant effects plus will help with weight gain.
02-11-2005, 08:29 AM
I prob will be having surgery here soon to repair my second vericocele (opposite side). I lost quite a bit of size and strength from the last surgery, so I would like to go in prepared for this one.Originally Posted by USPLabs
Thus far, the product has curbed the hell out of my appetite. caMPH combined with high dose lecithin works wonders for appetite suppression.
02-11-2005, 09:59 AM
here is an exert from the article. Curious if it has relieved any pain from your injury?Originally Posted by Max32
"Cissus also possess analgesic properties on a mg per mg basis comparable to aspirin or anti-inflammatory drugs like ibuprofen. Cissus quadrangularis constitutes one of the ingredients of an Ayurvedic preparation, `Laksha Gogglu', which has been proved to be highly effective in relieving pain, reduction of swelling and promoting the process of healing of the simple fractures as well as in curing the allied disorders associated with fractures (7). The mechanism through which Cissus exerts its analgesic and anti-inflammatory properties has not been well characterized. It may act centrally, but the anti-inflammatory features suggest that it acts by preventing the conversion of arachidonic acid to inflammatory prostaglandins."
02-11-2005, 06:41 PM
btw, is the cissus responsible for the pumps I am getting right now?
02-11-2005, 07:43 PM
I am taking pure cissus and getting d-bol like pumps. There been many reports of getting 'PUMPED'
02-11-2005, 07:44 PM
Curious if it has relieved any pain from your injury?
PS--People are getting pumps elsewhere aswell:}
02-13-2005, 03:36 PM
well, I may not have to get this ****in surgery after all . I must say that while working shoulders and bis on friday, my arms could not straighten after literally five minutes. I had no idea this would be one of the effects, but would say it surpasses that of the NO supps out there, with the exception maybe of NO-Xplode after the first 2 hours of ingestion. So, needless to say, the pump effect is not a placebo. I have also noticed no water retention, puffy nips, etc... that was in talks over at avants board due to high forskolin content. Then again, I have never noticed anything of the sort from any forskolin containing prods out there. My face is thinning out along with the waistline right now as well. Good product indeed.....
02-13-2005, 05:47 PM
Forskolin has a vasoladating effect like insulin as stated by nandi. Also why forskolin is good for the man downstairs! When nandi was researching forskolin, he kept finding new great effects that we may do another installement article.
The pump is great and since I been using cissus as a standalone. I been getting a pump so cissus also may contribute to the "PUMP."
Pay close attention to the pain factor from your injury. We are very interested in your feedback!!
02-13-2005, 05:49 PM
post this at avant
Thousands of people have been using forskolin (or forskolin like analogs) along with green tea and this is the first report of nipple enlargement I have heard of. But idiosyncratic reactions do occur in certain individuals from all kinds of drugs and supplements. If in fact it is true gynecomastia developing, there could be a couple of causes. One could be the increased testosterone and hence estrogen from the forskolin. Just as most people who use testosterone never develop gyno, some do. There seems to be a connection between pubertal gynecomastia and the development of the condition later in life. Did you suffer from pubertal gynecomastia?
Green tea could be contributing as well. There are conflicting studies in animals on the effects of green tea on sex hormones, with some studies showing an increase in testosterone, and others a decrease. Several in vitro studies have actually shown that green tea acts as a Type I aromatase inhibitor.
So with all the conflicting studies about green tea and sex hormones in animals, it's possible that certain individuals may experience a net estrogenic effect, while the bulk of users experience the opposite.
In any case, if I were you I would either lay off the cAMPhibolic and see if your condition resolves, or incorporate a proven aromatase inhibitor into your regimen.
BTW, a PubMed search turned up nothing when I searched under green tea and gynecomastia, so it has evidently never been reported in the medical literature. On the contrary, when searching under green tea and estrogen, this study popped up (1). Quoting the relevant passage,
"In addition, EGCG and green tea extract showed inhibitory effects on the growth of lung and mammary cancer cell lines with similar potencies. An experiment using the estrogen-dependent MCF-7 cell line showed the mechanisms of action of these compounds to be inhibiting the interaction of estrogen with its receptors
I would also try to confirm that it is really gynecomastia, and not just chest fat that has become more prominant after losing fat in the rest of your body. For instance, are your nipples tender? Is there any discharge? Can you feel any lumps? All those (not necessarily all together) are indicative of gynecomastia.
(1) Jpn J Clin Oncol. 1993 Jun;23(3):186-90.
Anticarcinogenic activity of green tea polyphenols.
Komori A, Yatsunami J, Okabe S, Abe S, Hara K, Suganuma M, Kim SJ, Fujiki H
02-25-2005, 02:20 PM
The REAL REASON!
Bone and tendon healing... possibly even some increased pumps...
These are all good reasons to be interested in Cissus... BUT
The REAL REASON you want to take Cissus has just been revealed!!
You take it to get HYOOOOOOGE!!
Drum roll please...
THE BEAST presents STEROBOL SUSPENSION
STEROBOL SUSPENSION is a new product from UltraLabâ€™s BEAST Sports Nutrition Line. Their Research & Development team has discovered several unique compounds that enhance muscle mass and strength. The one ingredient in STEROBOL SUSPENSION that will take the sports nutrition and body building world by storm is Cissus Quadrangularis (Cissus). Ultra Lab is the first Sports Nutrition Company to introduce Cissus to the Sports Nutrition market. Most of you have never heard of Cissus , but according to the company, you will. Clinical studies proving its Anabolic effects are forthcoming. This rare herb from Central Asia is actually a phytosteroid rich in ketosterones that exibit a tremendous anabolic effect on the body. The other major components of this powerful non-Andro formula include:
â€˘ Mumie â€“pronounced (moomiyo)- which stimulates the immune system, reduces pain and inflammation, increases endurance and overall health.
â€˘ Cyanotis Vaga (20-hydroxyecdysterone) dramatically increases protein synthesis and reduces catabolism (muscle breakdown).
â€˘ Kre-Alkalyn- Increases ATP uptake in the muscle tissue cells thereby maximizing muscle volume and density. Does not lose its potency in suspension like creatine as it is prepared in a buffered state to prevent breakdown.
â€˘ Mucuna Pruriens- A highly concentrated extract of L-Dopa that initiates the production of Growth Hormone production (GH) for added lean mass and body fat reduction.
â€˘ Vanadium Citrate has the utmost bio-availability to increase nutrient absorption and breakdown within the muscle cells.
STEROBOL SUSPENSION should be used before and after body building. The company claims users will achieve results like never before. Most of the competitors currently working with THE BEAST Sports Nutrition Crew body building with STEROBOL have been placing in the top of their classes. You can be a winner too. Donâ€™t be left behind, join THE BEAST team and look and feel your best ever!
Just got my Cissus from SYNERGY. Move over Ronnie Coleman, I'm about to get my humongous on!
04-06-2005, 04:58 PM
Does Cissus lower cortisol? I am very interseted in taking this supplement post bone surgery but am concerned with it inhibiting recovery like most anti-muscle wasting product which would lower cortisol.
04-06-2005, 07:33 PM
Cissus is VERY ANABOLIC to muscle.Originally Posted by Bigfishy
read the article posted on cissus at synerymuscle.com.
04-09-2005, 07:02 PM
"Green tea has many anti oxidant effects plus will help with weight gain."
USP how will gt help with weight gain?I would have thought otherwise due to its appetite blunting effects seen in many?
And you have not been taking the camp these days and just using cissus alone in the higher 6-8g range per day?Did u do this just to asses the properties of using the cissus alone?The dbol like pump sounds very very good,I cant wait to high dose this stuff.I also have a few clients that are VERY excited to try it for some longstanding injuries.
04-10-2005, 09:56 AM
It should read weight loss:} I was using Cissus as a stand alone at about 6 grams a day but lowered dosage to 4 grams producing the same effects.
04-10-2005, 10:30 AM
The cissus in cAMPHIBOLIC is 400mg, and in Cissus RX it is 550mg. I am curious why you did not use an extract, since this would have cut down the number of capsules people would have to take. Was it unavailable, or would it have made your products too expensive? Or is it much better to have it administered evenly throughout the day, making a reduction in the number of capsules unpreferable? I just noticed that you had recommended to one of your testers to use 6g per day to help heal his serious injury, and since that would be 12 capsules, my question came up. Thanks. The results people are getting from these products are impressive.Originally Posted by USPLabs
Last edited by Strateg0s; 04-10-2005 at 10:49 AM.
04-10-2005, 06:06 PM
Great questions!Originally Posted by Strateg0s
Depending on your cAMP dose the Cissus content varies but in 2 caps, the content is below 300mg.
Its the total content of cissus that makes it unique. The extract would provide a pure Keto-steriod product, but its the whole plant thats medicinal.
I reccomend 4-6 grams for the Serious "Anabolic Effect." The healing phenomenon is around 2-3 grams.
04-10-2005, 06:08 PM
For the record and fortunately, I do not need cissus to heal as all my tendons and joints are healthy. I use it for the anabolic/anticabolic effects.
04-10-2005, 09:01 PM
USPLabs, are you taking both pure cissus and forskolin? Does your Cissus Rx have forskolin in it? On your site it doesnt label the ingredients, but I saw on this thread that it has 550mg of cissus per cap. For the best anabolic effects, what dose do you recommend per day for both the cissus and forskolin?Originally Posted by USPLabs
04-11-2005, 08:01 PM
forskolin has not produced any anabolism with me, even at 1500mg/day @ 10% standardized (BAC brand)
willing to give cissus a try. seen any logs? gotta love an NHA
04-11-2005, 08:08 PM
Originally Posted by USPLabs
DUDE, he isn't lying. I took my first dose of Cissus today about 20 minutes before lifting. After about 30 minutes of lifting I went to do some cardio on the bike, and I got a massive boner. I actually had to go an extra 10 minutes on the bike, to wait for it to go down.
This has never happened to me before, 100% of the time prior to this experience, I've always been totally bored out of my skull while riding the bike and completely asexual feeling.
04-11-2005, 10:34 PM
You got a hard on from riding a bike? Damn Tom you are a lonely man.Originally Posted by TheTom
04-11-2005, 11:41 PM
so....each cissus RX cap has 550mg? or is that per 3 caps?
if that's per 3 caps, then it's $25 for 33g or $.76/g
compared to BAC which is $15.25 for 75g or $.20/g
(or ~ $.30/g from another place - capped)
if that's 550mg per cap, then i'll buy immediately. very curious...
(naturally i didnt include the buy 3 get 1 free deal as i dont intend to get that much until i know it does something)
04-11-2005, 11:49 PM
LOL, well there was a cute chick on the bike next to me!Originally Posted by LCSULLA
and it has never happened before today!
Okay thats it, I never posted that last post. Nothing to see here, move along.
04-12-2005, 12:44 AM
04-12-2005, 02:38 AM
I'm going to employ cissus, forskolin and green tea as part of my endurance supplements within the next week or two during intesive hiking. My goal is to at least retain my lbm during lengthy periods of hypocaloric physical stress.
Burning off some more fat would be cool even though I'm pretty lean already.
As an additional goal/desire, I'm hoping the Cissus will alleviate and heal the various aches and pains I get from overexertion from hiking 30-50 miles a week in steep terrain.
I'll post results or lack there of in a few weeks.
04-12-2005, 04:48 AM
I have been on it for over a month, and I have not been impressed.
04-12-2005, 07:56 AM
Thanks bioman. I'll be watching for this post. I'm interested in the outcome too.As an additional goal/desire, I'm hoping the Cissus will alleviate and heal the various aches and pains I get from overexertion from hiking 30-50 miles a week in steep terrain.
I'll post results or lack there of in a few weeks.
04-12-2005, 11:06 AM
What doses have you been running? Are you taking it for an anabolic aid or for tendon recovery?Originally Posted by Kaboju
04-12-2005, 11:15 AM
As have I... watching the hot lil blond in my gym as she does the stairclimber in front of me.
What was worse is when on the treadmill doing a face paced walk. Sitting down on a bike you can hide it. Standing up... not so much.
04-12-2005, 01:21 PM
Hahaha, classic! I knew I wasn't the only one. And yes, hiding it on a bike is so easy, it feels like a sin.
04-12-2005, 02:22 PM
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