- 08-15-2010, 04:33 PM
Before i begin...I could sound harsh but my questions must be answered..
I was considering to buy jack3d and PowerFULL untill i read about the ingredients.. I aint sure about the safety of the products. I mean why put a partydrug in a pre workout? (1,3 dimethylamylamine) or ''schizandrol a''. I've heard people saying jack3d feels just like a amphetamine. Someone even said his heart ****ed up and went into hospital.
Clorophytum borivilanum (Active Ingredient : Saponins)
Velvet bean (bean)
''Sapogenins are the aglycones, or non-saccharide, portions of the family of natural products known as saponins. Sapogenins contain steroid or other triterpene frameworks as their key organic feature. For example, steroidal sapogenins like tiggenin, neogitogenin, and tokorogenin have been isolated from the tubers of Chlorophytum arundinacelum. Some steroidal sapogenins can serve as a practical starting point for the semisynthesis of particular steroid hormones.''
I have read that some people got gyno from powerFULL on this forum!
USPlabs homepage looks like the classical scamsite made in paint.. Guys i am extremly unsure about usplabs right now. Can someone with great knowledge have guarantee their products are safe?
- 08-15-2010, 04:44 PM
- 08-15-2010, 04:44 PM
08-15-2010, 04:44 PM
08-15-2010, 04:52 PM
To be fair, this guy wants to hear that their products are safe, not that they work and they have good customer service. More people, myself included, ought to research what they're putting into their bodies before trusting supplement companies.
That being said, all the ingredients OP mentioned are safe. Obviously 1,3-Dimeth needs to be taken in moderation and according to the Jack3d product label.
08-15-2010, 04:57 PM
08-15-2010, 11:03 PM
08-15-2010, 11:47 PM
08-16-2010, 01:21 AM
Jack3d and PowerFULL, and the ingredients in them, are totally safe for use in healthy individuals. PowerFULL is not giving anybody gyno. Every time I have seen someone make that claim, it turns out that they've used PHs/steroids in the past and didn't run a full PCT.
08-16-2010, 01:55 AM
08-16-2010, 05:59 AM
08-16-2010, 11:45 AM
and you guys wonder why I'm worried? duuh
08-16-2010, 12:07 PM
As for trusting supplement companies , i think its naive to do that. Supplement companies are out to make a profit and out to outsell their rivals in a comparable product. Package the product in such a way its distinctive and with clever advertising , you hopefully have a sale Now USP Labs seem good at that , and their products work but not for everyone.However they have built up a following.
Whether supplement companies are concerned about the safety of the product . im not too sure . Acting sensibly and within the guidelines laid down on the product label, is the responsibilty of the consumer.However what is questionable is how these instructions have been arrived at and seem consistent regardless of weight and size of the individual.Unfortunately studies are not made public and it is hoped that these products are tested on an athlete before making them available for general consumption
08-16-2010, 12:20 PM
LOL, your not serious bro, you have to be a troll. You dont trust them? Their supps are dangerous? They look like a scam? All these comments and you expect someone to think your serious and answer your questions?
Oh, did you know you dont have to take them? Duuhh
08-16-2010, 04:21 PM
08-16-2010, 04:44 PM
Most people here have a much larger knowledge of supps then you, so please save the advice.
Its nice you want to know what your putting in your body but that does not excuse your poor attitude and calling them a scam with no proof but your opinion, that appears to be childish.
It surpises me just how uneducated people can be about how to act like an adult, respect it not that hard for the common man with normal brain function to employ.
08-16-2010, 05:07 PM
In terms of somebody being "****ed up and going to the hospital," you will have to qualify that statement somewhat.
What portion of the quoted text indicates that Chlorophytum is dangerous?''Sapogenins are the aglycones, or non-saccharide, portions of the family of natural products known as saponins. Sapogenins contain steroid or other triterpene frameworks as their key organic feature. For example, steroidal sapogenins like tiggenin, neogitogenin, and tokorogenin have been isolated from the tubers of Chlorophytum arundinacelum. Some steroidal sapogenins can serve as a practical starting point for the semisynthesis of particular steroid hormones.''
Link?I have read that some people got gyno from powerFULL on this forum
That is a highly subjective opinion at best, and our track record would certainly disagree with your assessment. Very few, if any, companies who run their operation via "scam sites" achieve the level of legitimate success that USPlabs is now experiencing.USPlabs homepage looks like the classical scamsite made in paint.. Guys i am extremly unsure about usplabs right now. Can someone with great knowledge have guarantee their products are safe?
08-16-2010, 05:33 PM
I said their homepage have the LOOKS of a traditional scam site, not that usplabs are scam, capish?. It would be great if they could change the scamy design to a more neutral mode without those heavy advertisements.
lol americans are so...exotic to discuss with sometimes
08-16-2010, 05:56 PM
08-16-2010, 06:04 PM
08-16-2010, 06:12 PM
''What portion of the quoted text indicates that Chlorophytum is dangerous?''
I just mention the saponins of Chlorophytum
Steroidal saponins, according to the Southwest School of Botany, are a plant constituent or a secondary metabolite that helps the body create steroids to stimulate muscle growth and raise testosterone levels.
Athletes and body builders have stated performance increases due to steroidal saponins. It also has noted applications in erectile dysfunction
natural steoroids may produce many of the same side effects as synthetic hormones, including impaired bone-lenght growth, liver damage and increased risk of hormone-related cancers. such as prostate and breast cancer later in life.
Dr. Mitchell Harman, a growth hormone researcher, says that use of human growth hormone in large doses is "clearly toxic," and that high HGH doses can cause the development of acromegaly, a condition in which the hands, feet and forehead become enlarged, bones grow abnormally, and arthritis and heart problems develop.
''In all the data I have seen, there were no serious adverse responses in the, and the most common side effects of excitability and sleeplessness occurred in only a small proportion (<3%) of subjects. This holds true for geranium extract as well.''
08-17-2010, 10:53 AM
And?Steroidal saponins, according to the Southwest School of Botany, are a plant constituent or a secondary metabolite that helps the body create steroids to stimulate muscle growth and raise testosterone levels.
Interesting. I would love to see some evidence for this claim, despite the fact you are speaking in wildly general terms about a specific plant.natural steoroids may produce many of the same side effects as synthetic hormones, including impaired bone-lenght growth, liver damage and increased risk of hormone-related cancers. such as prostate and breast cancer later in life.
"Clearly toxic" is an entirely irrelevant term. "Clearly toxic" in what doses, in what tissues, and in what delivery routes? Without those qualifiers, the statement is irrelevant. This is also an attempt to directly analogize the side effects of a purely synthetic compound - despite the fact your listed side effects come associated with no evidence, and are dubious at best - to a plant product which is intended only to increase its natural counterpart.Dr. Mitchell Harman, a growth hormone researcher, says that use of human growth hormone in large doses is "clearly toxic," and that high HGH doses can cause the development of acromegaly, a condition in which the hands, feet and forehead become enlarged, bones grow abnormally, and arthritis and heart problems develop.
Again, as with your comments on Safed Musli, drawing conclusions as to the safety of Mucuna pruriens from gross speculation on the effects of synthetic drugs that the plant does not even contain is hardly a reasonable basis for your argument. The Mucuna pruriens plant does not contain growth hormone as is, but instead contains a natural source of L-DOPA, and any debate in terms of its safety would need to be debated on those grounds.
Besides this, you have yet to produce a single piece of evidence which links any of these adverse health consequences to the plants themselves, in animal or human models, which would be the gold standard with regard to verifying your claims. In addition, the fact that both of these plants have been used safely for centuries in Aryuveda, Unani and other traditional medicinal systems almost completely belies your claims. If these were "cancer causing, liver destroying" toxic herbs as you imply here, this extensively detailed traditional history would not exist.
The following are some choice references which detail the safety parameters of MP, CB, synthetic L-DOPA:
Katzenschlager R, et al. “Mucuna pruriens in Parkinson's Disease: A Double Blind Clinical and Pharmacological Study.” Journal of Neurosurgery and Psychiatry, 2004: (75). 1672-1677
Chihara et al. “L-Dopa Stimulates Release of Hypothalamic Growth Hormone- Releasing Hormone in Humans.” Journal of Clinical Endocrinology and Metabolism, 1986: (62) 3. 466-473
Mitsuhashi, S et al. “Effect of Oral Administration of L-Dopa on the Plasma Levels of Growth Hormone-Releasing Hormone (GHRH) in Normal Subjects and Patients with Various Endocrine and Metabolic Diseases.” Nippon Naibunpi Gakkai Zasshi. 1987: (63) 8.934-46.
Mahajani, S.S, et al. “Bioavailability of L-DOPA from HP-200 - A Formulation of Seed Powder of Mucuna pruriens (Bak): A Pharmacokinetic and Pharmacodynamic Study.” Phytotherapy Research, 1996: (10). 245-256.
Sabbe B, et al. “Psychomotor, Neuroendocrine and Behavioural Effects After Oral Administration of Levodopa in Normal Volunteers.” Psychiatry Research, 2004: (128) 1. 128-136.
K.K., Shukla et al. “Mucuna pruriens Improves Male Fertility by Its Action on the Hypothalamus-pituitary-gonadal-axis.” Fertil Steril. 2008 Oct 28. [Epub ahead of print]
Greenspan SL, et al. “Dopaminergic Regulation of Gonadotropin and Thyrotropin Hormone Secretion is Altered With Age. Hormonal Research, 1991: (36) 1-2. 41-46.
Lin, T and Tucci, JR. “Provocative Tests of Growth-Hormone Release. A Comparison of Results With Seven Stimuli. Annuls of Internal Medicine,1974: (80) 4. 464-9
Shukla KK, et al. “Mucuna pruriens Reduces Stress and Improves the Quality of Semen in Infertile Men.” Evidence Based Alternative and Complimentary Medicine, 2007: Dec 18. [Epub ahead of print]
Thakur M, et al. “A Comparative Study on Aphrodisiac Activity of Some Ayurvedic Herbs in Male Albino Rats.” Archive of Sexual Behavior, 2009 Jan 13. [Epub ahead of print] DOI 10.1007/s10508-008-9444-8.
Ahmad, Mohammed-Kaleem et al. “Effect of Mucuna pruriens on Semen Profile and Biochemical Parameters in Seminal Plasma of Infertile Men.” University of Lucknow, India. 2009.
Adepoju, GKA and Odubena, OO. “Effect of Mucuna pruriens on Some Haematological and Biochemical Parameters.” Journal of Medicinal Plants Research, 2009. 3(2). 73-76.
Libert, Mary-Anne. “An Alternative Medicine Treatment for Parkinson's Disease: Results of a Multicenter Clinical Trial HP-200 in Parkinson's Disease Study Group.” Journal of Alternative and Complementary Medicine, 1995. (1) 3. 249-55.
Nikam and Chavan. “Chlorophytum borivilianum (Safed musli): A Review.” Pharmacognosy Review, 2009. (3) 5. 154-169.
Thakur, Mayank et al. “Immunomodulatory Activity of Chlorophytum borivilianum Sant. F.” Evidence Based Alternative and Complementary Medicine, 2007. (4) 4. 419-423.
NP Visavadiya and AVRL Narasimhacharya. “Ameliorative Effect of Chlorophytum borivallanum Root on Lipid Metabolism in Hyperlipaemic Rats.” Clinical and Experimental Pharmacology and Physiology, 2007. 34. 244–249
It is interesting to note that these data collectively fail to suggest the serious adverse events you list here as possible side effects of these plants.
Very ironic. At any rate, the following review should serve as a good start.''In all the data I have seen, there were no serious adverse responses in the, and the most common side effects of excitability and sleeplessness occurred in only a small proportion (<3%) of subjects. This holds true for geranium extract as well.''
Your references are one unverified instance, five years ago, and another post which vaguely alludes to it.''Link?''
08-19-2010, 10:48 PM
As a side note - if you create a brand new account and in your first dozen posts you attack a company and imply they are scammers.... it just doesn't lend credibility to your otherwise reasonable questions.
If you really wanted answers then posting something to the effect that you were considering purchasing the product but didn't understand one or more of the ingredients and were looking from some insight and/or medical references might have gotten you a much better response from all parties involved.
08-19-2010, 11:16 PM
08-25-2010, 01:01 PM
Anyway..intressting reading what ppl think of jack3d for example
08-25-2010, 01:52 PM
As for your link - I read it. Interesting? Maybe. Good? Who knows. I clicked on the author's page.
Here is a snip:
So you think that having a supplement "review" done by a graphic designer is laughable. Most of the ingredient information is copied directly from wiki. There isn't a single source posted for any of her information.I’m a graphic designer turned web entrepreneur.
This sponge scours the internet, absorbs and spins out articles intended to amuse just as much as inform. Finishing up edgy commentary makes me feel a glow of accomplishment. Given that you read one of the better articles here, I hope you feel it too.
Having some random chic telling you that X compound is good/bad/neutral/useless doesn't help at all. How could you make an informed decision on any of that. Where does she talk about dosage? How much of each ingredient do I need for maximal effect? When does it go toxic or overdosed? There is NOTHING here.
Sure, Jack3d might be death incarnate. Its probably not since I've taken it quite a few times and I'm still here but, hey, things change. But one thing I do know is that I won't take some random webpage as even a hint of truth when I'm trying to determine what to put in my body.
08-25-2010, 02:44 PM
Except shizandrol A and the dangerous DMAE its a pretty simple product. With regular creatine mono, beta alanin, arigine and caffeine. This pwo focus on energy sure.. in my opinion there's much better and more complete pwos for a lower price out there with scientific safe ingredients.
08-25-2010, 03:07 PM
08-25-2010, 03:12 PM
It is not FDA approved because a supplement company has not sought approval for this dietary food supplement - it has nothing to do with research. Again, no sources are indicated.Geranamine (1,3-Dimethylamylamine or Methylhexamine)
This psychoactive drug is not FDA approved due to lack of research. It has adverse effects when safe usage is exceeded, including headache, nausea, and even stroke.
Whether this comment is borne from sheer ignorance or lack of ability, it is entirely incorrect.Schizanadrol A
This is one of the effective components in the dried Schizandra fruit native to China and Korea. There is very little information available about Schizandrol A and only a few lab studies have been conducted. Botanists’ claim the fruit itself can increase in the speed of reflex nervous responses.
JACK3D no longer contains Theophylline.Methylxanthines (Caffeine & Theophylline)
Jack3d supporters claim that it gives them energy without “the crash” and yet pretty much anyone will agree that caffeine is a temporary fix. Theophylline is very similar in structure to caffeine. Due to its numerous side-effects, the drug is rarely administered for clinical use.
If this article and page contained any research, I would gladly assess it and rebut; however, like your posts so far, it contains absolutely none.Conclusion
Hopefully the research contained herein helps you to make an informed decision about Jack3d and if it is right for your workout routine.
08-25-2010, 05:12 PM
so you really think that some random blog comment zone is the place to go for "research." Whew. Brother you need help. I can recommend some trainers for ya.patrick w 7 months ago
i have been using it for 3 weeks now, i am 43 years old-with a great sex drive-i have gained 2" of muscle in my bicept-and this is going to sound weird-but it has made my sex tool grow 2" in length and gives me a powerful rock hard erection
In your defense, I did go back to the USP site to recheck the ingredient list.
Yeah, this page does look a bit amateur-ish. I won't say scammer but I do see where you are going. Some of the magazine ads have this look as well. I assume they are trying to go for the edgy underground vibe but, to me, it comes off as more of a fly-by-night operation. Luckily, I've done my research. I've used their stuff for years. I've check the COAs when posted. I've looked at this forum and many others. So I don't have a single doubt as to the integrity of the operation or the people running it.
Again, I'll reiterate my first post. If you have concerns there are good ways to go about posting them. Creating an account and then using your first post to blast a respected company and call their project "dangerous" and the website a "classical scamsite" (your words directly) isn't going to get you the information you want nor will you be taken seriously.
There are much smarter and more professional ways to get your point across. Unless you are a troll in which case you need to try much harder because your hype level was about a 4 and you need to turn it up to 11.
08-25-2010, 06:50 PM
The whole point of this thread was to gain some value information about some dangerous ingredients. But since americans are so bloody sensitive when it comes to critique and discussionso the thread quickly evolved to another point ''do people realy care what things they are getting into their body?'' I guess not, until its to late.
I wish more people would check the ingredients of a supplement before buying it. Either its simply good scientific engineered ingredients or some mumbo jumbo **** that gives placebo and some serious side effects only... just like the most of usplabs.
Scientists have tried making steroids without side effects for many years. They have failed EVERYTIME. Most of USPlabs products trying to mimic steroids. They claim their products have no side effects wich is wrong. Designer steroids HAVE side effects. I aint saying their products not working. They might work a little bit. The most of the effects would be placebo.
however I might explain myself.. In my opinion there's to little information about the company itself. I can't hardly find something.. Wich regular big supplements company have.. Where they produce there products, where the headquarters is, have they an own factory?, how does it look inside the factory etc etc etc... But the big question is the man of mystery the founder and owner ''jacob geissler'' is.. The ****in man are like .. gone.. there is no information about him.
08-25-2010, 07:35 PM
I have not experienced any negative side effects from USPLabs at all, and in fact I have communicated with Jacob via email on a few occassions, and like the products they put out.Either its simply good scientific engineered ingredients or some mumbo jumbo **** that gives placebo and some serious side effects only... just like the most of usplabs.
Reading an advertisement from ANY company promoting a product is not research, looking up the specified extracts that come from the plants in journals and books and understanding how how it affects the body, and how long it has been used is a starting point.
Your ad hominem is linking usplabs with mumbo jumbo,placebo, serious side effects coupled with a mystery man has no premise whatsoever.
If you use the search function, and see the logs on peoples results it will give you a starting point.
On a side note I do find your post entertaining, Europeans have such a knack for the melodramatic
08-26-2010, 01:16 PM
You do realize your body is producing these "dangerous steroid hormones" as we speak right? PM can increase the amount of testosterone your body produces as well as increases in LH, FSH etc. The changes are not anywhere near what you get with exogenous steroid use so there's no reason to worry about dangerous side effects like increased cholesterol, BP, liver enzymes etc.
The ingredient Massularia acuminata which is part of PM is also known as african chewing sticks which people have been chewing on for hundreds of years.
It seems that you are trying to compare designer steroids to PM and natural testosterone for some reason. You can't compare it to designer steroids which are NOT naturally found in your body. They are artificial, usually methylated, androgens which are usually more powerful than testosterone and your body does not produce these molecules.
You still haven't given any valid reason or evidence that the PM ingredients are dangerous. Here, I will help you out and let you know the only real situation that it may be dangerous. If you have prostate cancer, then elevated androgen levels can make it worse. This is the only situation where having higher natural levels of testosterone could hurt you.
08-31-2010, 02:58 PM
You "aint "so sure it's safe. Learn some proper grammar bonehead. Something is strange about this guy,and i've been noticing quite a bit lately more and more on here is that all of these "strange" questions are coming from guys that haven't been on here that long and maybe have less than 10 posts.
I agree with the fellow who made reference to this as"a wolf in sheep's clothing".You want to see inside of the factory..? Can you see inside of Muscletech's factory or BSN,etc...no. Maybe Jacob would like to remain the man behind the scene,maybe he doesn't want the spotlight...who cares.
This post was lacking validity from the start.
09-09-2010, 08:07 PM
09-09-2010, 08:10 PM
Thread starter is definitely a planted troll.. Us Americans are exotic enough to figure that out. His arguments and accusations have no validity.
Plz close this thread mods. It's worthless.
09-11-2010, 01:11 PM
09-11-2010, 01:27 PM
09-11-2010, 03:00 PM
09-11-2010, 03:19 PM
"what you have just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
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