Vat Attack! By USPowders, Get Super Lean for Super Cheap! Write up and Q&A.

[Guest]

USPowders Q & A: VAT Attack!​

VAT attack! is without a doubt one of the most innovative powders to hit the weight loss scene. USPowders, a subsidiary of USPlabs is the forefront of the innovative side of the bulk powder game. It’s rarely seen in our industry that a company releases innovation at an economical and cost effective way.

I’m about to tell you why you need VAT Attack! the ONLY Non-Hormonal way to combat visceral adipose tissue (VAT). VAT is the "blubber" deep down that when reduced is the only way to get the deep ripped defined physique!

Glucocorticoids are recognized as stress hormones that mediate a myriad of physiological pathways that are implicated in inflammatory, metabolic, and cardiovascular processes. An excessive expression of glucocorticoids can lead to obesity, hypertension (and other cardiovascular dysfunctions), dyslipidemia, impaired insulin metabolism, and other inflammatory states.

Now, cortisol (corticosterone), a catabolic hormone released in the adrenal cortex, is the main (active) glucocorticoid form in humans. Two proteins are known to mediate glucocorticoid action. One is corticosteroid-binding globulin (CBG), and the other is 11ß-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase. The protein, 11ß-HSD has two isoenzymes that regulate the interconversion of cortisol and cortisone at the endoplasmic reticulum.

These two isoenzymes, 11ß-HSD type 1 and 11ß-HSD type 2, are not only produced by different genes, but also have different tissue distribution. More specifically, 11ß-HSD1 is primarily distributed in the liver, the kidneys, the brain, and in adipose cells; while 11ß-HSD2 is mainly found in the kidney and the salivary glands. In humans, 11ß-HSD1 is responsible for the conversion of inactive cortisone to cortisol, while 11ß-HSD2 is mediates the catalysis of the opposite reaction. Cortisol is primarily converted into the inert glucocorticoid, cortisone, in the kidney. Cortisol accumulation occurs via a combination of tissue 11ß-HSD1 activity and plasma diffusion. Plasma glucocorticoid levels are mediated by the activity of the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal (HPA) axis, and can be triggered by stress, both physical and psychological.

The glucocorticoid receptor mediates glucocorticoid action and, consequently, activates or deactivates target genes involved in such physiological processes as adipocyte differentiation, inflammation, and gluconeogenesis. Examples of these target genes include glucose-6-phosphatase [G6Pase], tyrosine aminotransferase (TAT), leptin, hormone sensitive lipase (HSL), lipoprotein lipase (LPL), corticotrophin-releasing hormone (CRH), interleukin 6 (IL-6), prolactin, and so on.

Clearly, 11ß-HSD1 activity is important for the regulation of cortisol levels. In particular, 11ß-HSD1 inhibition leads to a series of effects including increased fat loss, reduction in hyperglycemia and hepatic glucose output (via reduced expression of glucose-6-phosphatase [G6Pase] and phosphoenolpyruvate carboxykinase [PEPCK], the rate-limiting enzymes in gluconeogenesis), reduced hepatic fat accumulation (via reduction in the differentiation of pre-adipocytes to adipocytes, reduction of the activities of enzymes involved in fatty-acid synthesis and triglyceride accumulation), improved peripheral insulin sensitivity (via reversal of glucocorticoid antagonism of insulin-stimulated glucose disposal), reduction of visceral adipose tissue fat accumulation, and favorable changes in other metabolic indicators. Note that fat accumulation can occur either via increase in the size of individual adipocytes (large adipose cells are more insulin insensitive), or an increase in the number of adipocytes (via adipose differentiation from pre-adipocytes to adipocytes). Or both!

We have seen that cortisol management is desirable to mitigate metabolic disturbances. We have also established that 11ß-HSD1 is the key regulatory enzyme for cortisol synthesis, and that the inhibition of this enzyme, in the presence of physiological and psychological stress stimuli, will favorably induce a myriad of beneficial results, including improved (visceral) fat loss, improved insulin sensitivity, improved cardiovascular state, and enhanced lean mass preservation.

But how can we achieve 11ß-HSD1 via non-hormonal means?

Enter VAT Attack! Contained in VAT Attack!, Coffee (Coffea Arabica L.) extract is known to support lipid and glucose metabolism via selectively inhibiting the action of 11ß-HSD1 (but not that of 11ß-HSD2), leading to physiological processes enumerated earlier. Elevated cortisol levels are known to induce breakdown of muscle tissue.

Essentially, cortisol exerts a metabolic action by elevating glucose levels during exercise, for instance, via inducing protein (amino acid) and lipid mobilization in adipocytes and skeletal muscle cells. Beyond this, cortisol stimulates hepatic production of enzymes that mediate gluconeogenic, glycogenetic, and related pathways.

This leads to conversion of amino acids and glycerol into glucose and glycogen. In this instance, cortisol acts much like insulin as a non-discriminatory storage hormone. Clearly, the metabolic action of cortisol ultimately leads to adipose-cell accumulation, especially of the visceral-adipose-tissue type.

What can you expect from VAT Attack!?

• Significant and noticeable reduction in elevated cortisol levels via selective 11ß-HSD1 inhibition.
• Dramatic increase in lipolytic action within the deep visceral-adipose-tissues (VAT), leading to a significant trimming of VAT accumulation, inducing noticeable fat loss, and bringing you closer to your desired six-pack.
• Enhanced “burning” of subcutaneous adipose tissue (SCAT), triggering a cascade of events that ultimately deliver noticeable fat loss.
• Preservation of lean mass by reducing the action of the catabolic hormone, cortisol.
• Enhanced cellular insulin sensitivity, leading to the breakdown of another supportive factor in weight gain.
• Elevation of the markers of optimal cardiovascular and endothelial functions.
• Improvement in the testosterone:cortisol ratio, following the strong negative correlation between testosterone (total and free) and cortisol.

By selectively inhibiting the action of 11ß-HSD1, VAT Attack! supports a significant reduction in cortisol levels, leading to such favorable outcomes as generalized and abdominal (visceral-adipose-tissue and subcutaneous-adipose-tissue) fat loss, improved insulin sensitivity, and increased testosterone:cortisol ratio, and an enhancement in markers of cardiovascular and endothelial functions.

But what is abdominal obesity and how is it connected to visceral adipose tissue and cortisol?

Abdominal obesity is a function of the accumulation of visceral adipose tissues (VAT) and subcutaneous adipose tissue (SCAT). Accounting for up to a fifth of total fat in men, VAT is distributed in the deep cavity beneath abdominal muscles. Its location makes it very difficult to target and detonate.

VAT has a very powerful impact on abdominal obesity. On its part, SCAT is located on top of abdominal muscles, right beneath the skin, and is consequently easier to reach and trim than VAT. VAT accumulation is known to not only be positively correlated with, but also sustains the development of, such metabolic abnormalities as hyperlipidemia, cardiovascular disorders (including endothelial dysfunction, insulin disturbances, and so on. VAT accumulation is not just a problem for obese individuals. Even lean individuals with elevated VAT accumulation are equally susceptible to the problems outlined earlier. Consequently, and as VAT adipocyte is more sensitive to lipolysis, even a modest (5-10 percent) body weight loss can preferentially produce a greater reduction in VAT deposits compared to SCAT.

Based on the earlier discussion, this reduced concentration in the VAT depot can trigger dramatic improvements in pro-inflammatory and pro-atherogenic markers, including reductions in insulin insensitivity, improved fat oxidation, and markers of cardiovascular function.

So, what are the key differences between VAT and SCAT, and why is reduction of VAT depots significantly more beneficial?

1. VAT adipocytes are more sensitive to lipolysis, and produce more inflammatory cytokines such as IL-6 and plasminogen activator inhibitor-1 (PA-1). VAT supports the increased transport of glycerol and free fatty acids to the liver, leading to a stimulation of hepatic glucose production, and ultimately insulin abnormalities.
2. VAT adipocytes have a higher GLUT-4 expression than SCAT adipocytes, leading to a higher level of insulin-triggered glucose uptake, ultimately inducing preferential triglyceride stores in VAT.
3. VAT is strongly negatively correlated with plasma levels of total testosterone, free testosterone, and sex-hormone binding globulin levels.
4. VAT possesses more glucocorticoid receptors than SCAT, making 11ß-HSD1 especially active in VAT. As 11ß-HSD1 activity is significantly higher in VAT adipocytes than in SCAT ones, a much higher amount of cortisol is produced in VAT, leading to further VAT accumulation, and metabolic abnormalities.

VAT is the site of significantly more glucocorticoid receptors than SCAT, making the VAT an important center for 11ß-HSD1 activity, and thus, cortisol concentrations. So, by inhibiting the action of the 11ß-HSD1 enzyme, VAT Attack! not only reduces global cortisol action, but also cortisol concentrations in the VAT, thus inducing lipolysis and visceral fat loss (as well as SCAT fat loss), improved insulin sensitivity, and cardiovascular function.

To note, besides inducing fat accumulation, cortisol would also initiate and sustain the systematic breakdown of muscle tissue. But, by inhibiting 11ßHSD1 activity, VAT Attack! down-regulates the conversion of cortisone to metabolically active cortisol, leading to a reduction of skeletal-muscle and adipose-tissue glucocorticoid levels. This supports effective protein synthesis and shunts fat accumulation. Furthermore, considering the existence of a positive relationship between high levels of circulating cortisol and insulin insensitivity, reductions in cortisol levels induce improvements in cellular insulin sensitivity with benefits for blood-glucose optimization, diabetic states, and fat loss.

So, VAT Attack! is a simple-but-potent product that has a myriad of benefits including supporting the reduction in cellular visceral-adipocyte content and body weight via 11ßHSD1 inhibition; inducing favorable changes in lipid levels, thus providing considerable cardiovascular support; improving insulin sensitivity, thus providing diabetic-amelioration support; preservation of muscle mass via its anti-catabolic action induced through cortisol down-regulation; supporting the management of obese states; and so on.

Whether you are dieting, whether you want to preserve muscle mass, or you simply wish to reduce cortisol levels to reap the associated string of benefits, whether you wish to enrich your current fat-loss stack, or whether you are in PCT (there appears to be a significant associative negative relationship between testosterone and cortisol), VAT Attack! is one non-hormonal-but-potent agent that can help you reach your goals smarter.

Expect VAT Attack! Expect fat loss! Expect abdominal fat loss! Finally expect true (abdominal) lean mass exposure! Expect improved cardiovascular function! Expect unparalleled value for money! Get ready for a mind-blowing summer!

 

[Guest]

USPowders Q & A: VAT Attack!​

What is VAT Attack!?
VAT Attack! is a specifically engineered extract from the Coffea Arabica L., plant, and an ingredient that plays a key role in the formula ReCreate. It is a natural inhibitor of 11ßHSD1 activity that down-regulates the conversion of cortisone to metabolically active cortisol, leading to a reduction of skeletal-muscle and adipose-tissue glucocorticoid levels.


What is the purpose of VAT Attack!?
The purpose of VAT Attack! is to potently and effectively mitigate excessive glucocorticoid levels for the purpose of regulating fat distribution, especially of the visceral adipose type, and promoting lean mass. It does so by preventing the intracellular conversion of inactive glucocorticoids (cortisone, 11-dehydrocorticosterone) to active glucocorticoids (Cortisol, corticosterone). Consequently, VAT Attack! also induces an improvement in the testosterone:cortisol ratio.


What is Cortisol?
Cortisol, as mentioned above, is known as a corticosteroid or glucocorticoid, and is the body’s primary glucocorticoid. While often referred to as the “stress hormone” – because of its propensity to increase during stressful periods as a reaction to mobilize energy stores – it can be altered by changes to diet and exercise as well. Cortisol’s actions are primarily controlled via three major pathways: modulation of total serum (blood) levels by the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal complex; by activation/inactivation in target tissues by local enzymes, or; by antagonizing the GR (glucocorticoid receptor).

Cortisol has myriad roles in metabolically active tissues, and carries out these actions through a process known as “destructive metabolism” – i.e., ‘catabolism’. Cortisol plays an important role in the regulation of glucose homeostasis, for example, by degrading serum amino acids to raise blood glucose, as well as activating glycogenolysis in the liver – both of these actions are considered ‘catabolic’. For these and other reasons, Cortisol is highly implicated in the distribution of fatty tissue, fuel metabolism, and glucose regulation; as such, it has also been implicated in regulating body composition and the maintenance in lean mass. As a result of these implications, supplements are often sought to control Cortisol levels from reaching excess levels.


Which one of the major pathways described above does VAT Attack! work through?
As stated above, there are three major pathways to inhibit Cortisol: reducing serum levels through the HPA-axis (by affecting the CRH - > ACTCH pathway, for example), controlling Cortisol’s activation of the GR (by competitive binding, for example), or by inhibiting localized conversion of the inert glucocorticoid Cortisone to the active glucocorticoid Cortisol. VAT Attack! prevents the activation of the glucocorticoid Cortisol by selectively inhibiting an enzyme known as 11ß-HSD1 [1].


Why is local inactivation preferable to systemic methods of Cortisol inhibition?
The recent push toward selective Cortisol modulators has been made due to some of the inherent issues with systemic Cortisol regulation. Mitigating the serum production of Cortisol at the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal level, for example, may have unintended consequences on the greater processes of steroidogenesis, and also interfere with Cortisol’s other, vital physiological roles in the body (regulation of blood pressure, bone physiology, fuel metabolism and so on). At the receptor level, the binding of Cortisol to the GR leads to what are known as “conformational changes” to the GR, and its translocation to the cell nucleus, from the cell cytoplasm; this activation is then also responsible for Cortisol-dependent regulation of glucocorticoid receptor gene-response elements (GREs) that cause an alteration in gene expression/action; these genes, in turn, regulate Cortisol’s vital physiological functions mentioned above. The disruption of GREs, like the disruption of serum Cortisol production, can have unintended physiological and metabolic consequences. As a result of these possible consequences, the pursuit of extra-adrenal, tissue-specific methods of Cortisol regulation have been explored; 11ß-HSD1, being the predominant catalytic enzyme for GC activation, has been one such exploration.


What is “11B-HSD1”?
11B-HSD1 is what is known as a “local enzyme” (meaning it locally inhabits the metabolically active tissue in question – therefore, its actions are not necessarily ‘systemic’) that is, as stated, responsible for activating the inert glucocorticoid Cortisone into the active glucocorticoid Cortisol. It has two forms: an oxidase (oxidative) form and a reductase (reductive) form in metabolically active tissues. The reductive activity of 11ß-HSD1R is what we commonly refer to as “activating” Cortisol, while the oxidative role is the less-commonly known role of 11ß-HSD1, as it “inactivates” Cortisol in certain tissues. While this bi-directional enzyme predominantly (2:1 ratio) exists in the reductive capacity, and therefore inhibiting it is beneficial, its oxidative role is carried out in certain tissues such as the Testes! This essentially means that an effective 11ß-HSD1 inhibitor is known as “selective”.


Is VAT Attack! “selective”?
The [albeit limited] research on VAT Attack! does seem to suggest that its actions are not only selective to tissue-type [inhibition in both adipocytes and myotubes was seen] but also for isomers [1]. 11ß-HSD has both a 1 and 2 isomer, with only the 1 isomer being bi-directional. 11ß-HSD2 is exclusively oxidative in action, and its down regulation would have certain, adverse, and tissue-specific consequences.


Is VAT Attack! hormonal?
No, it is not. Other selective 11ß-HSD1R inhibitors are sex-hormones and/or sex-hormone derivatives in-and-of themselves, and operate by serving as direct substrates for the 11ß-HSD1R, thereby occupying the enzyme and making it unavailable to Cortisone. The nature of these inhibitors as sex-hormone (derivatives) can lead to possible suppression when used in high enough dosages. (Though suppression is not likely when used in suggested dosages.) VAT Attack!, on the other hand, is not an 11ß-HSD1R substrate or sex-hormone (derivative), but rather, works by lowering 11ß-HSD1R mRNA [1].


Is VAT Attack! safe, and does it require support supplements?
There is nothing in VAT Attack!'s pharmacological profile that would suggest outward adverse reactions of any kind. As a result, support supplements will not be necessary when using VAT Attack!


Can VAT Attack! be used in P.C.T.?
Yes. As stated, it is not a sex hormone or sex hormone derivative, and does not convert to any androgens, estrogens or progestin. Seeing as it has no hormonal action, it is perfectly suited for use in P.C.T. where Cortisol-suppression is paramount to prevent excessive destructive metabolism.


What is an optimal dose of VAT Attack!?
An optimal dose of VAT Attack! is 3-6 grams, depending on the purpose. In a P.C.T. environment, a maximum dose of 6 grams should be considered, due to heightened GR sensitivity to Cortisol. (Sex steroids block the GR.) For everyday use, 3 grams will suffice.


Will I experience a “Cortisol rebound”?
As VAT Attack!'s effects are both localized and tissue-specific, a “rebound” effect is highly unlikely. As no conformational changes of the GR, and no competitive binding to the GR occur, it is highly unlikely that an outward Cortisol rebound effect would occur through negative feedback of any kind.


How long should I use VAT Attack!?
8-12 weeks is the optimum time of use.


Can I stack VAT Attack! with other Cortisol-inhibitors?
As stated above, Cortisol plays certain necessary roles in the body. One should seek to regulate, but not decimate, its action. As such, the combination of VAT Attack! with one or more potent Cortisol-regulators may be excessive, and it is not recommended.


Is VAT Attack! better for cutting or bulking?
While the preservation of lean muscle tissue via localized Cortisol inhibition is where VAT Attack! will shine, it is certainly useful in a hyper caloric environment to regulate efficient fuel metabolism and regulate fat deposition.


Can I stack VAT Attack! other USPlabs and USPowders products?
Yes! Some useful combination's are below.

P.C.Triple Your Gains Stack:
This stack, consisting of PRIME, PowerFULL, and Vat Attack! is designed for a dual purpose in the P.C.T., environment: sustain the maintenance of newly acquired muscle mass, and lead to the rejuvenation of natural testosterone production. In regard to the first role, each compound “in the mix” plays a unique part. The potent and effective Cortisol mitigation of Vat Attack! alone would surely prove a formidable way to maintain newly acquired mass, based on the virtue of its ability to normalize blood glucose levels and mitigate excess Cortisol levels – avoiding the unwanted degradation of amino acids [muscle tissue] for glucose provision. One adds in both PRIME and PowerFULL, each with their own potent means of lean mass provision, and P.C.T. is complete!
In the second role, again we see considerable synergy – specifically, the synergy between the Cortisol-mitigating properties of Vat Attack! and the natural testosterone-enhancing capacities of both of PowerFULL’s ingredients. It is well known that suppressing either Cortisol or Prolactin alone can lead to substantial increases in natural Testosterone, though through obviously different pathways – combining these effects [Cortisol inhibition of Vat Attack! and Prolactin inhibition from the L-DOPA found within PowerFULL] is sure to produce rapid rejuvenation of the H.P.G.A “post-cycle”.

USPlabs P.C.Triple Yo' Gains Dosing Protocol:
Training Days:
USPlabs PRIME (PRIME 69 Protocol) = 3 capsules with food (a.m. dose), 2capsules with another meal, 2 capsules 35-45 minutes pre workout, 2 capsules with last meal of the day.
USPlabs PowerFULL = 3 capsules 30 minutes prior to training, 2 capsules 30 minutes prior to bedtime on an empty stomach.
USPowders VAT Attack! = 3g split over 2-3 doses per day. Typical dosing times would be Morning Cardio, Pre-Workout and Pre-Bed to correlate with typical times of cortisol release.
One may increase daily dose by one gram each week to experiment with higher dosages, upper end being ~6g/day.

Non-Training Days:
USPlabs PRIME (PRIME 69 Protocol) = 2 capsules with food 3 times a day.
USPlabs PowerFULL = 3 capsules 30 minutes prior to training, 2 capsules 30 minutes prior to bedtime on an empty stomach.
USPowders VAT Attack! = 3g split over 2-3 doses per day. Typical dosing times would be Morning Cardio, Pre-Workout and Pre-Bed to correlate with typical times of cortisol release.
One may increase daily dose by one gram each week to experiment with higher dosages, upper end being ~6g/day.

Take one day off per week of PRIME and PowerFULL.

Six Pack Vat Attack! Stack
As you may well know, the Six Pack Stack [comprised of Anabolic Pump and ReCreate] is one of the most popular stacks on the market, for several reasons – most notably, the ability of Six Pack Stack to directly regulate fuel metabolism; specifically, the sustaining of normalized blood glucose levels, the regulation of triglyceride and fatty acid synthesis, storage, and expenditure [through both the actions of AP-dependent AMPk, and the regulation of enzymes such as glycerol-3-phosphate dehydrogenase by ReCreate], and the regulation of the body’s key hormones for catabolic fuel metabolism [epinephrine/norepinephrine and T3]. Now, imagine adding in a compound that not only assists in the maintenance of blood glucose and the improvement to Insulin sensitivity, but also contributes to regulation of lipid metabolism and lean mass maintenance! With Vat Attack! and the Six Pack Stack, one essentially regulates every major pathway of fuel metabolism.

USPlabs Six Pack VAT Attack! Stack:
Training and Non-Training Days:
USPlabs Anabolic-Pump = 1 capsule, 3 times per day 20 minutes prior to carbohydrate containing meals. Prioritize your pre-workout dose.
USPlabs Recreate = 2 capsules 30 minutes prior to breakfast, 1 capsules 30 minutes prior to training on an empty stomach.
USPowders VAT Attack! = 3g split over 2-3 doses per day. Typical dosing times would be Morning Cardio, Pre-Workout and Pre-Bed to correlate with typical times of cortisol release.
One may increase daily dose by one gram each week to experiment with higher dosages, upper end being ~6g/day.

How much is it?
Vat Attack! will be $19.99 at Nutraplanet, and this will last approximately 30 days.
USPowders at Nutraplanet.com

How can you stack VAT Attack! ???

Contest coming soon!!!​

 

[rob561]

i know im ready!

 

[borobulker]

i know im ready!

Are you?

 

[eatingisfun]

Nice writeup

 

[benj851]

Good writeup but when will it finally be at np?

 

[mrlargecalves]

when will it be available at the planet? u posted a link but there was nothing

 

[Kc2554]

Give it to us NOW!!!!!
Sorry...got a little too excited...

 

[Steveoph]

when will it be available at the planet? u posted a link but there was nothing

It shipped to us Tuesday; I would imagine by tomorrow. Perhaps today if we're lucky.

 

[Steveoph]

I saved my two questions for the Q & A;

1. You mention that "11ß-HSD2 is exclusively oxidative in action, and its down regulation would have certain, adverse, and tissue-specific consequences." However the only literature that I can find relating to this, points out that only roasted and not native coffee beans have a selectivity for the 1 isomer over the 2nd isoform. Is your extract using roasted beans? Otherwise I would be concerned with potential B-HSD2 inhibition, as you also noted the dangers.

You referenced [1] but the reference list at the end is missing.

2. Do you have any human bloodwork on your extract VAT Attack showing it decreases serum cortisol levels? Just as a confirmatory measure.

 

[Kc2554]

Would this product be better suited for transdermal delivery?

 

[dmillz224]

It shipped to us Tuesday; I would imagine by tomorrow. Perhaps today if we're lucky.

sweet getting ready for an order looks like I'll have to wait a day or so

 

[snagency]

oooooo when will I have it my mailbox?? :lick:

 

[borobulker]

when will it be available at the planet? u posted a link but there was nothing

The link is to our USPowders page at Nutraplanet. It will be there as soon as NP gets it.

 

[MAxximal]

When is out?

 

[benj851]

I saved my two questions for the Q & A;

1. You mention that "11ß-HSD2 is exclusively oxidative in action, and its down regulation would have certain, adverse, and tissue-specific consequences." However the only literature that I can find relating to this, points out that only roasted and not native coffee beans have a selectivity for the 1 isomer over the 2nd isoform. Is your extract using roasted beans? Otherwise I would be concerned with potential B-HSD2 inhibition, as you also noted the dangers.

You referenced [1] but the reference list at the end is missing.

2. Do you have any human bloodwork on your extract VAT Attack showing it decreases serum cortisol levels? Just as a confirmatory measure.

???

 

[eatingisfun]

2. Do you have any human bloodwork on your extract VAT Attack showing it decreases serum cortisol levels? Just as a confirmatory measure.

Since it's targeted and not systemic reduction of cortisol, would you expect to see a decrease in serum cortisol levels?

 

[DreamWeaver]

Ok when Nutra starts selling the larger Prime dosing will be adding this to my order. I will be running it with AP and Prime. Maybe some other goodies just added to my stash recently. I'm getting excited!!

 

[Steveoph]

Since it's targeted and not systemic reduction of cortisol, would you expect to see a decrease in serum cortisol levels?

Part of the reason I asked; I know they did beta testing with Prime, and was interested to see if they had used beta-testers with this herb and did blood abstracts. Otherwise you, the customers, would be the first people to try this.

As for the decrease in serum cortisol levels, it`s unclear which is why I was interested in seeing some bloodwork. If you decrease the amount of cortisol in visceral tissue, you might cause more to be removed from the blood and enter those tissues. Or, on the other hand, bloodwork could verify that there is no systemic lowering of cortisol. Useful either way.

 

[eatingisfun]

Part of the reason I asked; I know they did beta testing with Prime, and was interested to see if they had used beta-testers with this herb and did blood abstracts. Otherwise you, the customers, would be the first people to try this.

As for the decrease in serum cortisol levels, it`s unclear which is why I was interested in seeing some bloodwork. If you decrease the amount of cortisol in visceral tissue, you might cause more to be removed from the blood and enter those tissues. Or, on the other hand, bloodwork could verify that there is no systemic lowering of cortisol. Useful either way.

This is the same stuff that's in Recreate so it's not completely untested. I think the only real untested part is the higher doses people will be taking.

 

[mrlargecalves]

is there really larger dosed prime coming out?

 

[strategicmove]

I saved my two questions for the Q & A;

1. You mention that "11ß-HSD2 is exclusively oxidative in action, and its down regulation would have certain, adverse, and tissue-specific consequences." However the only literature that I can find relating to this, points out that only roasted and not native coffee beans have a selectivity for the 1 isomer over the 2nd isoform. Is your extract using roasted beans? Otherwise I would be concerned with potential B-HSD2 inhibition, as you also noted the dangers.

You referenced [1] but the reference list at the end is missing.

2. Do you have any human bloodwork on your extract VAT Attack showing it decreases serum cortisol levels? Just as a confirmatory measure.

The quote "11ß-HSD2 is exclusively oxidative in action, and its down regulation would have certain, adverse, and tissue-specific consequences" is meant to underline earlier statements that preferential isoform-enzyme inhibition is crucial. More specifically, corticosterone (cortisol) is known to inhibit the steroidogenic acute regulatory protein (StAR), steroidogenic enzymes, and other proteins involved in testosterone biosynthesis in Leydig cells. But, 11ß-HSD2 is crucial for the reduction of intracellular cortisol levels in Leydig cells, such that 11ß-HSD2 inhibition would induce undesirable effects on testosterone synthesis. In effect, 11ß-HSD2 protects against high corticosterone levels by inactivating physiologically active glucocorticoids to their inert metabolites.

Furthermore, given that 11ß-HSD2 is mostly highly expressed in the kidney (coexpressed with the mineralocorticoid receptor) and the colon, its inhibition would produce tissue-specific effects. In particular, the reduction of the renal expression of 11ß-HSD2 triggers a suppression of the inflammatory enzyme, cyclooxygenase 2 (COX-2), that produces prostaglandin E2. To continue, a distinction should be made between 11ß-HSD2 inhibition and 11ß-HSD2 deficiency. 11ß-HSD2 deficiency is a genetic disorder technically referred to as Apparent Mineralocorticoid Excess (AME) Syndrome. 11ß-HSD2 deficiency and/or acute inhibition can induce sodium retention (due to the binding excess cortisol to the mineralocorticoid receptor), hypertension, renal disease, low serum potassium levels, and liver cirrhosis. The effects of the inhibition (not deficiency), while serious in themselves, are not as global as those triggered by Non-Steroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drugs (NSAIDs) and selective COX-2 inhibitors, such as enhanced carcinogenesis, compromised immune-system integrity, and cardiovascular dysfunction.

Our extract is a selective 11ß-HSD1 inhibitor.

 

[benj851]

is there really larger dosed prime coming out?

wrong thread but yes... they said soon. I would imagine that they have to sell the old out first though. out with the old in with the new.

 

[strategicmove]

is there really larger dosed prime coming out?

Yes. The original PRIME contained 600mg actives per capsule and 120 capsules per bottle. The NutraPlanet version of the new PRIME will contain 800mg actives per capsule and 120 capsules per bottle. That translates to a whopping 33% more active ingredients per capsule (and per bottle)! Absolutely insane! But the jaw-dropping news is that this new version of PRIME, with 33% more actives per bottle, will sell for exactly the same price as the original PRIME! :jaw: You are getting 33% more value! For free!! :jaw: Absolutely unprecedented in this industry!!!

Put differently, three bottles of the new PRIME are equivalent to four bottles of the original PRIME. But, because there would be no price increase, buying three bottles of the new PRIME is equivalent to getting a completely free bottle of the original PRIME for every three bottles of the original PRIME purchased! Don't ask me how USPLabs can make this possible. :dunno:

In any case, the new PRIME is USPLabs' way to, not only express appreciation to PRIME users for their loyalty and support, but also to respond positively to requests of a larger-count size PRIME bottle (remember that a 120-count bottle of the new PRIME is equivalent to a 160-count bottle of the original), and offer current and potential PRIME users a unique and economical way to experiment with different PRIME doses to find their optimum.

Stay PRIMEd! :thumbsup:

 

[MAxximal]

This is te same stuff of PP Endoamp Max or this best?

 

[strategicmove]

This is te same stuff of PP Endoamp Max or this best?

EndoAmp Max is a combination of highly-dosed Phosphatidylserine and Alpha-GPC, while ours is a completely different compound. Both are great products.

 

[MAxximal]

EndoAmp Max is a combination of highly-dosed Phosphatidylserine and Alpha-GPC, while ours is a completely different compound. Both are great products.

Can be combined with other products without problems?

 

[Steveoph]

I understood the mechanism of action of the 2 isoforms Ike. My two questions still remain; How do we know it is specific for the 1st isoform? The study I cited showed that only roasted coffee beans showed specificity, unlike unroasted coffee beans. I ask for clarification what type of coffee beans VAT Attack uses, and if there are any studies I missed to show selectivity. Inhibition of 11-BHSD 2, as can be seen with liquorice overdoses, is medically referred to as Pseudohyperaldosteronism

Also UPS Labs (Jacob) may have some more information about the testing done on this product pre-release which I hope he can share. I just want to make sure this product is tested and safe, which I trust it is, I'm just seeking clarification. :thumbsup:

 

[Pirate!]

The amount in Recreate is just enough to make my joints a bit stiff. Wouldn't the dose you recommend me be way higher than what is in Recreate? If the effective dose is 3-6 grams, why so little in Recreate? Has anyone used these large doses for a period of time that can report on joint health and similar sides? I know some people have problems sleeping on large amounts of cortisol blockers, as well.

 

[Mulletsoldier]

I saved my two questions for the Q & A;

1. You mention that "11ß-HSD2 is exclusively oxidative in action, and its down regulation would have certain, adverse, and tissue-specific consequences." However the only literature that I can find relating to this, points out that only roasted and not native coffee beans have a selectivity for the 1 isomer over the 2nd isoform. Is your extract using roasted beans? Otherwise I would be concerned with potential B-HSD2 inhibition, as you also noted the dangers.

You referenced [1] but the reference list at the end is missing.

The Coffea Arabica L., extract contained in the specific literature we refer to, and by extension the extract contained in our product, is from an Italian Espresso [southern Italy roast; dark, most likely]. This being said, the specific structure in question is as important as the parent plant - i.e., being an extract, it is entirely possible the same compound could be extracted from either Coffee Bean source.

2. Do you have any human bloodwork on your extract VAT Attack showing it decreases serum cortisol levels? Just as a confirmatory measure.

No, and aside from work done in relevant pathological states [see: Metabolic Syndrome, NIDDM, Cushing's Syndrome, etc.,] you are unlikely to see it. However, to my knowledge, Coffea Arabica L., extracts are currently in pre-clinical phases of development, in regard to potential NIDDM adjuvants. At that point, you would certainly see human-trial evidence.

 

[Silver3CSRT8]

Sounds intriguing. I am subbing so that I will know when it is available.

 

[Steveoph]

Voila: VAT Attack

 

[Kc2554]

Voila: VAT Attack

You f**kin rule!

 

[Silver3CSRT8]

I ordered. I have been happy with every other purchase I have made with USP. What is the recommended way to dose this? I saw how much to take, but at what time should I take it? Also should I be taking it with my fish oil caps or not?

 

[Kc2554]

Order is in!

 

[MgoBlue]

like someone else asked, what times of the day should this be taken? If it's a form of coffee, will it keep me up @ night? Would this powder mix in my morning coffee, or is that a little too much?

 

[snagency]

^^^
OMG does ANYBODY read thru threads anymore before they post???

2nd post in the thread:

USPowders VAT Attack! = 3g split over 2-3 doses per day. Typical dosing times would be Morning Cardio, Pre-Workout and Pre-Bed to correlate with typical times of cortisol release.One may increase daily dose by one gram each week to experiment with higher dosages, upper end being ~6g/day.

Do you really think that something that is directed to be taken before bed is going to be done if it will cause sleep issues?
Man, feels like I'm in grade school sometimes.

 

[Silver3CSRT8]

^^^
OMG does ANYBODY read thru threads anymore before they post???

2nd post in the thread:

Do you really think that something that is directed to be taken before bed is going to be done if it will cause sleep issues?
Man, feels like I'm in grade school sometimes.

I was not trying to be a dumbass and read through the FAQ and found:
What is an optimal dose of VAT Attack!?An optimal dose of VAT Attack! is 3-6 grams, depending on the purpose. In a P.C.T. environment, a maximum dose of 6 grams should be considered, due to heightened GR sensitivity to Cortisol. (Sex steroids block the GR.) For everyday use, 3 grams will suffice.

However, I didn't read the part thouroughly enough when it was talking about stacking with other USP products and it mentioned the dosing protocol. My bad!:thanks:

 

[snagency]

Nah Silver, the bad is mine..
My patience has been run thin lately by an influx of stupid, silly posts that show obvious obliviousness to even a cursory glance thru the thread..yours (well and Mr. Magoo's up there) was just like the little feather landing on the pile that knocked the whole shebang down..compared to what I've been seeing elsewhere, you guys don't even come close to the posts I'm really referring to.
My apologies for the brusqueness. I need to temper my temper! :biglaugh:

 

[MgoBlue]

^^^
OMG does ANYBODY read thru threads anymore before they post???

2nd post in the thread:

Do you really think that something that is directed to be taken before bed is going to be done if it will cause sleep issues?
Man, feels like I'm in grade school sometimes.

Dude, lighten up, obviously I missed that.. But just for you, I'll try to read every single thread that much closer...:hail:

 

[MgoBlue]

My apologies for the brusqueness.

apology accepted.. I'm running on 4 hours of sleep (shiftwork) & missed that. I try to come here w/ more intellect but right now I'm beat.
:wave2:

 

[rob561]

apology accepted.. I'm running on 4 hours of sleep (shiftwork) & missed that. I try to come here w/ more intellect but right now I'm beat.
:wave2:

:sleeping::sleeping::sleeping:

 

[Guest]

apology accepted.. I'm running on 4 hours of sleep (shiftwork) & missed that. I try to come here w/ more intellect but right now I'm beat.
:wave2:

I would eliminate the pre bed dose. I'm going to edit that part out.

 

[Kc2554]

"Can I stack VAT Attack! with other Cortisol-inhibitors?
As stated above, Cortisol plays certain necessary roles in the body. One should seek to regulate, but not decimate, its action. As such, the combination of VAT Attack! with one or more potent Cortisol-regulators may be excessive, and it is not recommended."

I am currently trying Alpha-GPC....500mg active twice a day.
Should I maybe take 2 grams of VAT Attack, and also lower my Alpha-GPC dose?

 

[strategicmove]

...
I am currently trying Alpha-GPC....500mg active twice a day.
Should I maybe take 2 grams of VAT Attack, and also lower my Alpha-GPC dose?

No need to alter your Alpha-GPC dose. Alpha-GPC, as an acetylcholine precursor, should modulate muscle coordination, sleep, cognition, and the resynthesis of phospholipids in the brain, as well as the related central-nervous system signal transduction. So, no concerns about stacking it with VAT Attack!

 

[Kc2554]

ahh..thanks...for some reason, I got it in my head that Alpha-GPC affected Cortisol.
Really excited for the VAT Attack!

 

[Steveoph]

The Coffea Arabica L., extract contained in the specific literature we refer to, and by extension the extract contained in our product, is from an Italian Espresso [southern Italy roast; dark, most likely]. This being said, the specific structure in question is as important as the parent plant - i.e., being an extract, it is entirely possible the same compound could be extracted from either Coffee Bean source.

So double checking I understand, your coffee beans are roasted? Then we're good to go

 

[Pirate!]

The amount in Recreate is just enough to make my joints a bit stiff. Wouldn't the dose you recommend me be way higher than what is in Recreate? If the effective dose is 3 grams, why so little in Recreate? Has anyone used these large doses for a period of time that can report on joint health and similar sides? I know some people have problems sleeping on large amounts of cortisol blockers, as well.

Bump for my questions.

 

[Guest]

Bump for my questions.

I'm stacking 750 with each recearte dose and I'm fine. We are reducing cortisol specifically so joint pain should not be an issue.

 

[Guest]

love how this has negative reviews already...I call these folks losers, haters and envious, but I love that they follow me every little foot step. We must be doing something right.

These dummies just do not understand they are only feeding our popularity.

http://www.nutraplanet.com/product/uspowders/vat-attack-100-grams.html