A lot have been said about this product. As such I am inclined to give it a test under strict conditions. The reason being - I feel I am the perfect candidate for this job, drug free for live and supplement free for the past one year. In the past I have only taken Creatine, Protein and tried sida cordifolia on an irregular basis. Been training without any supplement aid for the past year. I will only be taking Cissus RX for the duration of this experiment.

The test subject: (as described by the my Oestopath, with minor editing)
Date: 16 Feb 2009
Mr D is a 25 year old PhD student who is an exceptionally active mixed martial artist (kickboxing, karate, Muay Thai and MMA) and weight lifter. He seems to have good systematic health. He came to see me on 11 Feb to discuss two problems. This included a one year history of left anterior knee pain as well as a six month history of anterior left shoulder pain, which was more acute.
Mr D trains heavily in the gym on at least six days a week and he is extremely muscular, if not over developed in the deltoids, chest and other anterior muscles. There are no neurological symptoms and he has no head or next pain.
On examination it seems likely to me that he has bicep tendonitis, particularly affecting the long head (MRI results later revealed that bicep tendon seems normal), and that this is probably due to over use and his anterior shoulder position. Mr D also has an unstable A/C joint which he can sublux easily.
With regard to the left knee, the original injury seems to have been a hyperextension kick, and while he has full range of motion and there is no report of locking or giving way, the history suggests a meniscal problem. On examination, McMurry’s test was negative but there is a palpable lateral anterior horn bulge on full flexion of the knee. In addition there is patella-femoral crepitus and roughness on translation. Meniscus lesions are obviously outside the scope of the osteopath and I would consider sending him for an orthopaedic opinion.

Date : 4 March 2009 AM (as Described by Consultant Orthopaedic Surgeon)
Mr D is a pleasant 25 year old PhD student who has left shoulder pain and left knee pain. His left shoulder pain has been insidious in onset over the last few months whilst he has been doing heavy weight training. He describes pain on overhead activity which limits his movements and he has a dull ache (slight burning or tired sensation) generally within his shoulder. He describes his left knee pain as starting a year ago whilst he was kickboxing. He had an extension type injury and felt immediate pain over the retropatellar area of his knee which took some time to settle down. However it then improved for a while year before there was slight recurrence of his symptoms, again while kickboxing. He does not describe any effusions, instability, hip pain or groin pain.

On examination there is no effusion within his knee. He has tight iliotibial band with poor patellofemoral mechanics. He has some retropatellar tenderness. He has no tenderness over the joint line. Cruciate and collateral ligaments are intact.
Examination of his left shoulder shows a good shoulder countor. There is some minor tenderness over the biceps tendon on deep palpation and some midly positive impingement signs but there is nothing terribly spectacular. Othewhise his shoulder examination shows a full range of movement which is relatively pain free.
I am confident that he has anterior knee pain on the left side but not entirely sure wheather he has true bicep tendonitis or not. We are organizing an MRI scan of his left shoulder and we will see him again once this is done. I will organize physiotherapy for his knee. ( I am still convinced that my knee is not right and I might need the MRI as well which he did not suggest for the knee, but he’s the expert not me)

Date: 4 March 2009 PM (as described by Consultant Radiologist)
MRI on Left shoulder
Clinical details: Painful shoulder, tender biceps ? cause
Findings: The alignment of the glenohumeral joint is within the normal range. The supraspinatus tendon is irregular and atrophic (****! Atrophic!!!) There is little evidence of any significant residual high signal associated with the tendon but the appearances are abnormal and are likely to be consistent with a tear of the supraspinatus tendo. (Does that mean they can’t see my tendon?, is it a full or partial or tear?, where is the tear located? near the humerus? ). The tendon of subscapularis appears within the normal range as does infraspinatus. The signal characteristics at the head of the humerus and glenoid are within the normal range with no evidence of any significant abnoramality. The longhead of bicep is seen to life within normal anatomical position with no detectable abnormality. No other abnormality is seen.

The doc rang me up and said I have a tear on my supraspinatus (rotator cuff), but i forgot to ask him if it is a full or partial tear.

Cissus RX is my last hope before a cortisone shot or surgery. I have tappered down my training since Christmas as the pain gradually got worse. Have not lost a lot of weight but lost a lot of strength probably a few pounds of muscle. Now that I can't train it will be interesting to see how long I can keep my shape. For the past one year I was training hard without breaks and supplements, 6 -7 times a week at the gym, but I am paying the price now. It is depressing as I am lacking the feel good hormones I get everyday when I look forward to a good lifting session

any advise on the dosage? or my shoulder and knee? I have spent well over a thousand dollars in private health care, something which I cannot afford as I am a student but probably only fellow anabolic heads can understand my predicament as we all value our training and performance to the point that it's almost impossible to put a monetary value on it. Any shoulder and knee specialist and radiologist? I have digital copies of my MRI

Will keep you posted,

Originally Posted by dangerousrave

Date: 4 March 2009 PM (as described by Consultant Radiologist)
MRI on Left shoulder
Clinical details: Painful shoulder, tender biceps ? cause
Findings: The alignment of the glenohumeral joint is within the normal range. The supraspinatus tendon is irregular and atrophic (****! Atrophic!!!) There is little evidence of any significant residual high signal associated with the tendon but the appearances are abnormal and are likely to be consistent with a tear of the supraspinatus tendo. (Does that mean they can’t see my tendon?, is it a full or partial or tear?, where is the tear located? near the humerus? ). The tendon of subscapularis appears within the normal range as does infraspinatus. The signal characteristics at the head of the humerus and glenoid are within the normal range with no evidence of any significant abnoramality. The longhead of bicep is seen to life within normal anatomical position with no detectable abnormality. No other abnormality is seen.

The doc rang me up and said I have a tear on my supraspinatus (rotator cuff), but i forgot to ask him if it is a full or partial tear.

Hello Sir,

As you know the supraspinatus and its associated tendon forms part of the glenohumeral structure we colloquially refer to as, "the rotator cuff"; it does so along with the infraspinatus, teres minor, and subscapularis muscles and there associated tendons. While it is unfortunate your supraspinatus has confirmed structural abnormalities [tear], the benefit is that the glenohumeral joint shows no structural abnormalities and neither do the associated flexion, extension, adduction and medial/lateral rotating muscles [biceps brachii, teres minor and so on]; essentially, this equates to your range of motion being limited for particular 'outward' movements on the sagittal plane [bench, for example].

All this being said, liable concerns make it inappropriate for me to suggest a course of action for you in this particular case, as it would constitute medical advice! Please seek the advice of your physician when considering implementing CissusRx as part of a rehabilitation modality.

Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier

Hello Sir,

this equates to your range of motion being limited for particular 'outward' movements on the sagittal plane [bench, for example].

All this being said, liable concerns make it inappropriate for me to suggest a course of action for you in this particular case, as it would constitute medical advice! Please seek the advice of your physician when considering implementing CissusRx as part of a rehabilitation modality.

Can you elabore on that? being limited for particualar... sagittal plane..

I seeing a shoulder specialist in a few hours, Will bring up Cissus with him.
I cannot remember how my tore happen, as I think it prograssively got worse.

Here are a list of 3 - 4 possible things that I can possibliy think of that tore my supra tendon.

I am 5'7 at 155-160 pounds (more on the lower end now) naturally walking around with 8-9% body fat. I was doing weighted dips with over 150 pounds X 6 reps! thats right free weighted dips with 1 X 25kg plate and 2 X 20kg plates.

Pull ups with 50 kgs(120 pounds) I knock 8 out easily with perfect form, wide grip pull ups 25kg (55) 12 reps easy. Normal pull ups (without weights) I hit 25 with perfect form and 20 with wide grips.

I think the reason was I always went for full extension all the way down and all the way up in my pull ups. On the negative phase my elbow fully extended and shoulders as well (to get as low as possible ) in retrospect, with a doggy AC joint.. i think this was stupid and I may pay the price for the rest of my life.

I also train Muay Thai, Kickboxing and MMA and worked my powerful left hook all the time on heavy bags and pads.

I also benched 120 dumbells on each arm for 6 - 8 reps on slight incline. (I only weigh 154 at that time)

Last 2 week I stupidly attempted flys with 100 pound dumbells and felt something gave way in my shoulder ( i didnt know I had a RC problem yet, was thinking bicep tendonitis, hence the flys/chest workout) this could have been the tendon rupturing. I didnt drop the weights or anything no real pain, just wondering if that was then it happen or it was gradually built up coz my MRI report a week later says atrophic supra tendon, how long does it take for a torn supra to become atrophic? if it was already torn prior to my stupid flyer attempt

I first started noticing the pain (front side inside the shoulder joint where the humerus joins the body) ONLY when I was doing wide grip pull ups with my legs held staight up at 90 degree or a higher angle. (sorta like a gymnast on the ring apparatus), This moves my center of gravitiy forward and I probably had to copensate with a 'relatively' weak rotator cuff, at this time i still have no pain whatsoever on any other weights or exercise

That gradually got worse until it affected my other routine and I finally got an MRI, wasted tons of money on physio and osteos before seeing a consultant... my only regret was not taking a break and seeking MRI early enough.

Cissus is not going to repair a tear. This is just wishful thinking and if anything it may provide an analgesic effect and if you train it will become progressively worse.

Cissus will NOT mend a tear that is not possible.

GOOD NEWS (well sorta)
thanks for the reply, lets just say NO PRODUCT will mend a tear,

just been to the consultant, he said the MRI was 'wrong' or over exagerrated, he does not think it is ruptured, he did all the test on me, I still have strenght and good ROM in all direction albiet with slightly less flexiblity, he said he would be very surpised if it was ruptured. I wouldnt be able to move my hand in all those position he placed me in.

He said I have build up or inflammation under the acromion area in the front side ,

Ultrasound with injection and x-ray is next...., in a way i am relieved I was shattered when the MRI result came out, but now I feel much better.

While a lot of people have small Tears to the RC, most do stabilise and are asymptomatic.


this episode is gonna cost me upwards of 1000 pounds

dangerousrave,

I have a suggestion, and it is no way intended to be a criticism. You have impressive strength is the lifts you detailed -- such as the weighted chins. Like you, I have long enjoyed lifting heavy in as many movements as possible. However, while reading your example exercises, it occurs to me that maybe you should only "lift heavy" in the more classical compound movements where your joints are in their strongest position (leverage-wise) and you can really hit the belly of a set of muscle groups with intensity.

With isolation movements such as flys, while I admit it is fun to power those heavy bells, you really can intensely work the pecs with a much lighter set of dumbbells -- let's say 70 to 80% of what your 'max' weight would be for a set of 8 to 10, but with ultra-strict form.

We have a 185 pound dumbbell in my gym (just one) and I used to do one-arm rows with it -- just because I could! Well, now I "only" use a 100 to 120 lb dumbbell with very strict form, pausing for a count of two at the top of each rep and really squeezing my lat. That's because I am now totally pain-free in all my joints (Thanks to Super Cissus Rx) and I want to keep it that way.

The thing is, I'm not telling you anything you don't already know. We just sometimes need little reminders to "save us from ourselves" so to speak.

Good luck, Bro.

thanks buddy, you are right I no longer attempt those anymore but obviously I was silly then, I guess everyone goes through the same learning curve, and it usually takes an injury or something drastic to change our outlook or approach on training.

I found myself employing extremely strict form lifting like 70% of what i use to lift as my injury got worse. (in hindsight I should have stopped training altogether on the first onset of pain/discomfort). But I guess you and probably a lot of other lifters will still contemplate in the back of our minds from time to time ..Can I still lift X amount of weight like i used to? I may have good shape and definition now, do I still have the strength & power I think I have or I know I used to have? and it only takes one ill-attempt to move that weight to get injured..

whilst dipping with somebody clinging on to my back can be quite a spectacle in the gym it sure is no fun when all I can do at the gym now is stretching (on doctor's orders)

The best thing I have learnt from this whole process comes from my doc who treats pro athletes is this. It goes something like this "The best athletes that go on to have a succesful career at the top of their game are not necessary those who are the most talented. It is those who stay injury free for the most part. I have seen many much more talented athletes whose careers ended due to injury and they would probably be at the top of their field if they could continue"

It may sound simple but we dont normally give that much thought until we are sidelined with an injury.

thanks bro, i hope to make a full recovery and get back to training asap, life is too short to be weak

on a side note, not to detract from the title of this topic, I have been taking cissus , will post my result after i finish the bottle