Could you amplify the effects of Bulk 1-C by using adjunct dopamine assistants?

ari4216

ari4216

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So, L-dopa enchances growth hormone release by promoting dopamine release.

But L-dopa is not the only dopamingeric supplement available.

Could you amplify 1-C by using the afforemenetioned supplements and would it have any benefit?
-Tyrosine
-Phenylalanine
-hordenine(but could not take this at night)
-Vitamin C
-Vitamin B6
-Vitex Agnus Cactus
-Theanine
-Pea

Do the effects of gaba related products enchance or disrupt the effectivess of 1-C?

Also would typical arginine/orthinine type product enchance 1-C?
Do they even work?

Melatonin?

Thanks.
 
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MattT

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Here is my best guess:

Go with Tryptophan-GABA combination.

Tyrosine-Phenylalanine are precursors to Tryptophan, so just go with Tryptophan. FYI, Tryptophan's absorption impeded by Tyrosine, Phenyl, BCAAs. B6 is also good. Theanine is good too, but crosses BBB via Leucine pathway (i.e. don't take Theanine with Tryptophan).

I don't know enough about hordenine, Vitex or PEA.

Arginine/Ornithinine. I think Universal Nutrition works with that combo. I'm not sure you'd feel anything. I saw some abstracts on pubmed from '80sand '90s. I'm skeptical you'd feel something.

Melatonin not as good as Tryptophan-GABA combo. You want 5HT synthesis (serotonin). The natural sleep cycle goes like this: Tryptophan--Serotonin--Melatonin--Sleep. No TRP = no serotonin. And GABA needs serotonin (TRP) to function effectively. Several studies on this that I couldn't find readily on my computer. Only one I got from Google is: Serotonin increases GABA release in rat entorhinal cortex by inhibiting interneuron TASK-3 K+ channels

Hope this guess gets you closer to your answer.

FluidEssentials
 
ari4216

ari4216

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Here is my best guess:

Go with Tryptophan-GABA combination.

Tyrosine-Phenylalanine are precursors to Tryptophan, so just go with Tryptophan. FYI, Tryptophan's absorption impeded by Tyrosine, Phenyl, BCAAs. B6 is also good. Theanine is good too, but crosses BBB via Leucine pathway (i.e. don't take Theanine with Tryptophan).

I don't know enough about hordenine, Vitex or PEA.

Arginine/Ornithinine. I think Universal Nutrition works with that combo. I'm not sure you'd feel anything. I saw some abstracts on pubmed from '80sand '90s. I'm skeptical you'd feel something.

Melatonin not as good as Tryptophan-GABA combo. You want 5HT synthesis (serotonin). The natural sleep cycle goes like this: Tryptophan--Serotonin--Melatonin--Sleep. No TRP = no serotonin. And GABA needs serotonin (TRP) to function effectively. Several studies on this that I couldn't find readily on my computer. Only one I got from Google is: Serotonin increases GABA release in rat entorhinal cortex by inhibiting interneuron TASK-3 K+ channels

Hope this guess gets you closer to your answer.

FluidEssentials
So serotonin and dopamine can work together to increase growth hormone levels?

I have scivation knockout coming in, which include tryptophan, so that should work in conuction with l-dopa good
 
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MattT

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Yes, I believe serotonin boosts dopamine, and better/more sleep leads to more growth hormone (Google "Dopamine--Serotonin's Secret Weapon"). But investigate this yourself as I researched this two years ago and don't have those studies. From a practical standpoint, though, serotonin would "have to" boost/affect dopamine as the Tryptophan-GABA combination is effective in combating addictions (i.e. nicotine) that influence dopamine.

Re Phenyl and Tyro, maybe I didn't give that combo enough credit. it's the precursor to dopamine (not serotonin), and has been in formulas around 20-30 yrs. Still, though, I've never heard of someone feel as good (dopamine high) on Pheny/Tyr as Tryptophan (serotonin high). Nor have I ever heard of better sleep with Phenyl/Tyr than Tryptophan.

Bottom line: I'd still side with TRP-GABA combo for growth hormone, serotonin, dopamine.

Re Knockout (Scivation), that's a good formula. The Valerian stinks, but it's a good combo of TRP, GABA, valerian and melatonin. If you want to try our product with TRP, GABA and Magnesium (TotalSleep), email me and I'll send a box.

Cheers,
 
ari4216

ari4216

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Yes, I believe serotonin boosts dopamine, and better/more sleep leads to more growth hormone (Google "Dopamine--Serotonin's Secret Weapon"). But investigate this yourself as I researched this two years ago and don't have those studies. From a practical standpoint, though, serotonin would "have to" boost/affect dopamine as the Tryptophan-GABA combination is effective in combating addictions (i.e. nicotine) that influence dopamine.

Re Phenyl and Tyro, maybe I didn't give that combo enough credit. it's the precursor to dopamine (not serotonin), and has been in formulas around 20-30 yrs. Still, though, I've never heard of someone feel as good (dopamine high) on Pheny/Tyr as Tryptophan (serotonin high). Nor have I ever heard of better sleep with Phenyl/Tyr than Tryptophan.

Bottom line: I'd still side with TRP-GABA combo for growth hormone, serotonin, dopamine.

Re Knockout (Scivation), that's a good formula. The Valerian stinks, but it's a good combo of TRP, GABA, valerian and melatonin. If you want to try our product with TRP, GABA and Magnesium (TotalSleep), email me and I'll send a box.

Cheers,
Thanks again for your input.:thumbsup:

I sent you an AM email.

I wonder if any usp lab reps will chime in?:lol::think:
 
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So, L-dopa enchances growth hormone release by promoting dopamine release.

But L-dopa is not the only dopamingeric supplement available.

Could you amplify 1-C by using the afforemenetioned supplements and would it have any benefit?
-Tyrosine
-Phenylalanine
-hordenine(but could not take this at night)
-Vitamin C
-Vitamin B6
-Vitex Agnus Cactus
-Theanine
-Pea

Do the effects of gaba related products enchance or disrupt the effectivess of 1-C?

Also would typical arginine/orthinine type product enchance 1-C?
Do they even work?

Melatonin?

Thanks.

1-c significantly increase HGH to supraphysilogical levels for a short period of time.

It shown to work better than synthetic L-dopa with levadopa a decarboxylase inhibitor.

I doubt anything will significantly add to the effects and I've tried a huge dose of EGCG over a month period which is a natural decarboxylase inhibitor without much difference quantified by results..ie deeper sleep and quicker fat loss.
 
strategicmove

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So, L-dopa enchances growth hormone release by promoting dopamine release.

But L-dopa is not the only dopamingeric supplement available.

Could you amplify 1-C by using the afforemenetioned supplements and would it have any benefit?
-Tyrosine
-Phenylalanine
-hordenine(but could not take this at night)
-Vitamin C
-Vitamin B6
-Vitex Agnus Cactus
-Theanine
-Pea
...
A lot of these may be useful in fine-tuning metabolic processes or, in some cases, as thermogenic agents, but may not materially influence GH-synthesis in a manner comparable to 1-carboxy.

As you know, neurotransmitters may follow tyrosine- or serotonin-dependent pathways. As you correctly pointed out, 1-carboxy induces a dramatic growth-hormone production via a dopaminergic pathway.

Here is an excerpt from an erlier contribution I made to a similar query in a different thread.

As you know, several classes of agents stimulate or inhibit growth-hormone secretion. In particular, the hypothalamic action of dopamine leads to an inhibition of somatostatin, allowing Growth hormone-releasing hormone (GHRH) to elicit growth hormone secretions (more later). Furthermore, amines, whether catecholamines (for example, dopamine) or indolamines (for example, serotonin), can promote growth hormone secretion via alpha adrenergic stimulation (for catecholamines), beta-adrenergic inhibition (for catecholamines), dopaminergic stimulation (for catecholamines), or serotoninergic stimulation (for indolamines). The reverse cases (beta-adrenergic stimulation, alpha-adrenergic inhibition, dopamine inhibition, and serotonin inhibition) may lead to inhibition of growth-hormone release.

Other factors that may stimulate growth-hormone secretion may include amino acids, the condition of hypoglycaemia, exercise, sleep, certain hormones, and so on. Of course, all these agents do not produce an equal boost in growth hormone. Dopamine, for instance, is known to be a potent growth-hormone agonist. [1-carboxy] uses this mechanism. Taken pre-bed, the potent GH-stimulating effects ensure a deep, restful sleep, and promotes superior repair of cellular damage. Taken pre-workout in a fasted state, growth-hormone release is equally induced, and acts in concert with the growth-hormone produced by exercise.

...As you correctly implied, dopamine is derived from the synthesis of tyrosine. Put differently, dopamine is a tyrosine-derived neurotransmitter. As you also know, tyrosine can be incorporated into proteins, can be broken down for energy production, or can be converted into catecholamines. These catecholamines are neurotransmitters such as dopamine, norepinephrine, and epinephrine. The conversion of tyrosine into catecholamines is made possible by the action of the enzyme, tyrosine hydroxylase. The ensuing reaction produces DOPA (3,4-dihydrophenylalanine). Via the enzymatic action of DOPA decarboxylase, DOPA is converted to dopamine, which is, in turn, converted by dopamine ß-hydroxylase into norepinephrine. Finally, norepinephrine is converted by phenyletanolamine N-methyltransferase into epinephrine. However, the full conversion from tyrosine to epinephrine is only realized in the adrenals. In the brain, the conversion ends at dopamine! Furthermore, catecholamines can exhibit excitatory and inhibitory effects, which is why they can support higher metabolic activity and rest. Dopamine can act as an inhibitory and as an excitatory neurotransmitter. The dopamine receptors determine which pathway to utilize.
Dopamine has been shown severally to support growth hormone secretion via somatostatin secretion. As somatostatin blunts growth hormone secretion, the dopamine inhibition of somatostatin enhances the action of the dipeptide, Growth hormone-releasing hormone (GHRH). This leads to an elevated release of growth hormones.

On its own, serotonin (5-hydroxytryptamine) is a tryptophan-derived neurotransmitter. Although it is a monoamine neurotransmitter like dopamine, it is regarded as an indolamine, and not as a catecholamine (like dopamine). Serotonin is derived from tryptophan via a hydolation reaction (tryptophan hydroxylase) and a decarboxylation reaction (amino acid decarboxylase). Consequently, melatonin (N-acetyl-5-methoxytryptamine) is derived from serotonin in the pineal gland via the actions of the enzymes, serotonin-N-acetyltransferase and hydroxyindole-o-methyltransferase, both of which are most active in the dark. Furthermore, serotonin is primarily found in the gastrointestinal tract. Only small amounts are found in the brain. As tyrosine and tryptophan (as well as methionine, the branched-chain amino acids, and so on) depend on a neutral protein transporter to reach the brain for synthesis, a large amount of one of these can crowd-out the others, favouring its synthesis in the brain.

To summarize, dopamine is a powerful stimulus for growth-hormone secretion, via a series of steps. [1-carboxy]'s impact on growth-hormone secretion is dopaminergic. Taken in a fasted state, [1-carboxy] can induce a significant increase in dopamine, and consequently, growth-hormone, whether pre-workout, or pre-bed.

Do the effects of gaba related products enchance or disrupt the effectivess of 1-C?
Should not be antagonistic. It is questionable or debatable, though, if they are explicitly necessary during a (dose-dependent) 1-carboxy supplementation.

Also would typical arginine/orthinine type product enchance 1-C?
Do they even work?
As far as I recall, the only arginine-related matrix that was truly demonstrated to have GH-boosting properties is a blend of Arginine Pyroglutamate and Lysine in a ratio of 2:1.
 
AK32408

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Subbed for the great info in here :)
 
ari4216

ari4216

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thanks usplabs and strategic move, especially strategicmove for the information.
 
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MattT

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Diddo ari4216. Nice work strategicmove. That was awesome.
 
AK32408

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stag is the man!
Ike is def. the man !

Instead of Googling or looking something up on Wikipedia I ask him :thumbsup: lol
 

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