[SD Nat Muscle]

I always thought that one of the main reasons bodybuilders ate so many meals a day was to maintain insulin levels. My understanding is that when insulin levels are elevated your body is in an anabolic state. When insulin levels are low it triggers catabolism and the body begins to break apart muscle tissue for consumption.

This being said why would it be advantageous to take a supplement that lowers insulin levels when trying to gain muscle mass? Wouldn't this put the body into a fasted and catabolic state and cause just the opposite?

I'm not trying to trash the supplement I'm just trying to understand how it may help someone attempting to build LBM.

[papagunz]

The point of insulin is the drive glucose and aminos into muscle cells to provide fuel for growth. It's namley the action of the substance, not the substance itself. (generally speaking)

With AP, you can increase musclular sensitiy to insulin, casuing less release, but still forcing the needed nutrients into muscle cell.

So, less insulin can also mean more fat lipolysis/oxidation, and you still get needed nutrients to your muscle cells. Win win.

[Mulletsoldier]

Originally Posted by papagunz

The point of insulin is the drive glucose and aminos into muscle cells to provide fuel for growth. It's namley the action of the substance, not the substance itself. (generally speaking)

With AP, you can increase musclular sensitiy to insulin, casuing less release, but still forcing the needed nutrients into muscle cell.

So, less insulin can also mean more fat lipolysis/oxidation, and you still get needed nutrients to your muscle cells. Win win.

Very well said!

[papagunz]

Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier

Very well said!

Coming from you that's an uber compliment. Just fyi, I'm a few days into AP, seems promising, but too early to tell. Definetly makes me feel hypo after 20 mins, and my blood sugar seems stable after a larger carb meal (no crushing appetite or headrush)

[Mulletsoldier]

Originally Posted by papagunz

Coming from you that's an uber compliment. Just fyi, I'm a few days into AP, seems promising, but too early to tell. Definetly makes me feel hypo after 20 mins, and my blood sugar seems stable after a larger carb meal (no crushing appetite or headrush)

Well, it would be a compliment coming from anybody. Great understanding there.

Anyway, give it some time; I'm sure you will be patient enough!

[eatingisfun]

Also, the point of the many meals is to keep insulin levels *stable*, not elevated. If you eat 3 large meals your insulin spikes much more after those meals even if the total carb load is the same with 8 smaller meals.

[SD Nat Muscle]

Originally Posted by papagunz

The point of insulin is the drive glucose and aminos into muscle cells to provide fuel for growth. It's namley the action of the substance, not the substance itself. (generally speaking)

With AP, you can increase musclular sensitiy to insulin, casuing less release, but still forcing the needed nutrients into muscle cell.

So, less insulin can also mean more fat lipolysis/oxidation, and you still get needed nutrients to your muscle cells. Win win.

I can see how the philosophy behind AP can help someone attempting to lose weight but it seems counterintuitive for someone attempting to gain LBM.

Once the body enters into "fat lipolysis/oxidation" it is in a catabolic state and feasting on your muscle cells as well as your fat stores. It seems that entering this state more quickly (as AP is supposed to do) would actually hinder your progress towards building muscle. The idea behind eating many meals a day containing low GI carbs is to avoid this catabolic state.

Am I missing something?

[papagunz]

Yes, it's catabolic to fat. Because beta oxidation occurs, doesn't mean you are feasting on muscle as well.

The premise behind AP is to create an anabolic environment for muscle cell (max glucose/amino uptake into muscle tissue) and a catabolic environment for fat (via antagonizing glut4 in fat tissue and insulin management).

Whether or not it will work out that way depends on a few factors including body type and total caloric intake. Make no mistake, I'm not pimping or shilling, just giving my understanding of the product. I've just started using it myself and will make up my mind in due time.

[SD Nat Muscle]

Originally Posted by papagunz

Yes, it's catabolic to fat. Because beta oxidation occurs, doesn't mean you are feasting on muscle as well.

The premise behind AP is to create an anabolic environment for muscle cell (max glucose/amino uptake into muscle tissue) and a catabolic environment for fat (via antagonizing glut4 in fat tissue and insulin management).

Whether or not it will work out that way depends on a few factors including body type and total caloric intake. Make no mistake, I'm not pimping or shilling, just giving my understanding of the product. I've just started using it myself and will make up my mind in due time.

I still don't see how it is anabolic or muscle building. Low insulin levels cause the release of Glucagon. Glucagon breaks down muscle cells to release glucose back into the blood. It would be great if low insulin levels only cause the breakdown of fat cells but it just doesn't work that way.

I'd be interested to know how the supplement works for you. What are your goals?

[eatingisfun]

Glucagon is released when blood sugar is low and afaik, not when insulin is low.
Stolen from wikipedia:
Increased secretion of glucagon is caused by:
Decreased plasma glucose
Increased catecholamines - norepinephrine and epinephrine
Increased plasma amino acids (to protect from hypoglycemia if an all protein meal is consumed)
Sympathetic nervous system
Acetylcholine
Cholecystokinin

So if you are taking enough carbs you should be protected from glucagon being released.

[SD Nat Muscle]

Originally Posted by eatingisfun

Glucagon is released when blood sugar is low and afaik, not when insulin is low.
Stolen from wikipedia:
Increased secretion of glucagon is caused by:
Decreased plasma glucose
Increased catecholamines - norepinephrine and epinephrine
Increased plasma amino acids (to protect from hypoglycemia if an all protein meal is consumed)
Sympathetic nervous system
Acetylcholine
Cholecystokinin

So if you are taking enough carbs you should be protected from glucagon being released.

I was using Insulin and Blood Sugar somewhat analogously. When Blood Sugar is low Insulin is low and the body is catabolic. Glucagon is released to get glucose back into the blood stream and unfortunately a large part of it comes from the muscle cells.

[eatingisfun]

But I think the trigger is much different biologically. If you eat enough carbs your blood sugar will not drop any more than it normally would through regular insulin secretion. Since AP is fairly targeted towards GLUT-4 in muscle cells only, the fat cells don't really get much glucose. They still get some of course because it's pretty hard to fight them off completely. You blood sugar still drops to normal if you don't take AP so this is not really any different except you are bypassing the insulin pathway which in turn bypasses the fat cells somewhat.

[eatingisfun]

Many pro bodybuilders take insulin with huge amounts of carbs. Yes your blood sugar drops but if you are taking in enough carbs then it's not dropping to hypoglycemic levels.

[papagunz]

It was my understanding that glucagon is primarily aimed at liver glycogen.

[papagunz]

Originally Posted by SD Nat Muscle

I'd be interested to know how the supplement works for you. What are your goals?

Straight recomp/lean bulk. We'll see, I'm fairly skeptical. 4 days in and the pumps are better and vascularity is more prevalent. Again though, we shall see. I have 3 bottles total which I picked up on sale. Either I strike gold or never buy USP again, it's that simple, but time will certainly be given to make a fair judgement.

[grexx]

Plain and simple, I love AP because it is the perfect supp for gaining lean muscle mass and dropping bodyfat

[snagency]

Originally Posted by grexx

Plain and simple, I love AP because it is the perfect supp for gaining lean muscle mass and dropping bodyfat

x2!

Originally Posted by papagunz

Straight recomp/lean bulk. We'll see, I'm fairly skeptical. 4 days in and the pumps are better and vascularity is more prevalent. Again though, we shall see. I have 3 bottles total which I picked up on sale. Either I strike gold or never buy USP again, it's that simple, but time will certainly be given to make a fair judgement.

I'm a natural skeptic as well, but your post confounds me. 4 days, and you're realizing those effects - yet you sound antagonistic towards the product & the company..

I was a diehard keto dieter for 4 years till AP made me a believer in the power of utilizing carbs!