Thinking of making my own trans carrier need input

[warriorway]

I'm planning on making my own transdermal carrier, I want to offset the costs a little by offering up some on the auction page. I'm just looking for some input to see if anyones interested, and if I should order extra bottles.
I can get the two main ingredients that's found in most of the commercial brands, the other ingredients I don't think are all that necessary, I will substitute them for something I think will be better. I'm leaning towards apricot oil, it's used mainly in massage oils.
It will be nonscented and usp grade. So let me know what yall think.

This is mainly an experiment for entertainment purposes and not a business venture. I read the rules before I posted this and I think I'm okay.

Thanks!

[dsade]

What would make you think the other ingredients are not necessary?

For an increase in cost of a few dollars you get enhanced absorption of the precious active ingredients.

Don't skimp on carrier quality..it makes no sense.

[warriorway]

Well, From what I've looked at I don't think a chemical that's used mainly in sunscreens for uv protection is necessary,and I think the triglyceride complex is some kind of vegetable oil, which I feel a quality oil would be a little nicer hence the apricot kernel oil, and I don't think a lemon scent is really all that necessary. That's my reasoning.
I was thinking of adding an aroma therapy essential oil for a nice scent but then I thought nawh.

[warriorway]

You actually gave me a super good idea dsade! I shouldn't skimp out on carriers or enhancers. I should try and improve on the product.
I really liked t-gel but the problem was the thickeners retarded the solvents ability to dissolve the powder added. But a thicker gel has many advantages with absorbtion and keeping the powder on your skin.
What if a thickening agent was included that you could add after you dissolved the powder in the carrier?
Sometimes the powder crystalizes and feels gritty what if I added something that prevented that? What's funny though is that's what chemical is used in regular antifreeze for your car so I don't know how safe that would be. More research is needed.
Thanks!

[jonny21]

Well, From what I've looked at I don't think a chemical that's used mainly in sunscreens for uv protection is necessary,and I think the triglyceride complex is some kind of vegetable oil, which I feel a quality oil would be a little nicer hence the apricot kernel oil, and I don't think a lemon scent is really all that necessary. That's my reasoning.
I was thinking of adding an aroma therapy essential oil for a nice scent but then I thought nawh.

If you refer to the D-limonene it is not just for a lemon scent. It is an excellent penetration enhancer. Maybe you should do some research on each ingredient and find out what its function is. don't try to recreate the wheel.

[warriorway]

Yes I will keep looking. I just want to use the best products that we have available.
Researching d-limolene I see the key words are penetration enhancer.

I did find one study with a chart that showed d-limolene worked well but only half as well as this patented stuff azone, which is the enhancer in most prescription transdermals. Then I found the book Transdermal and Topical Drug Delivery By Adrian Williams which had some info on azone saying it was made of some fatty acids. Then it said the most potent straight chain fatty acid enhancer appears to be lauric acid. Which is coconut oil.
So I think I will use that and the d-limolene.

Maybe tomorrow I will be ready to order some of my raw materials, and then try and make a good gel formula.

[jonny21]

Yes I will keep looking. I just want to use the best products that we have available.
Researching d-limolene I see the key words are penetration enhancer.

I did find one study with a chart that showed d-limolene worked well but only half as well as this patented stuff azone, which is the enhancer in most prescription transdermals. Then I found the book Transdermal and Topical Drug Delivery By Adrian Williams which had some info on azone saying it was made of some fatty acids. Then it said the most potent straight chain fatty acid enhancer appears to be lauric acid. Which is coconut oil.
So I think I will use that and the d-limolene.

Maybe tomorrow I will be ready to order some of my raw materials, and then try and make a good gel formula.

If you are making your own blend oleic acid is also something to consider. DMFA, is yet another penetration enhancer/solvent. One that is difficult to find but is probably the best is Diethylene glycol monoethyl ether(DGME)

I've had some extensive experience with Transdermals ;-)

[jminis]

DMFA is probably the best PE you can use, it's just hard to get. As for Tgel with the proper techniques I could easily dissolve 15gs of a powder in 8oz's. The problem most have with trying to make a gel rather then a liquid is find the proper ratio of thickening agents.

[warriorway]

If you are making your own blend oleic acid is also something to consider. DMFA, is yet another penetration enhancer/solvent. One that is difficult to find but is probably the best is Diethylene glycol monoethyl ether(DGME)

I've had some extensive experience with Transdermals ;-)

Don't know if I want to use stuff that's hard to find but thanks, I will look into it.

I read earlier today that oleic acid wasn't a good penetrater, but more a permeater, it was ideal for massage oil because it just spreads around and stays on the surface.

[jonny21]

I read earlier today that oleic acid wasn't a good penetrater, but more a permeater, it was ideal for massage oil because it just spreads around and stays on the surface.

https://www.aapspharmaceutica.com/se...w.asp?ID=75370

http://www.crodausa.com/datasheets/F...leicAcidNF.htm

Here are some other recipes from Basskiller's website:


http://www.basskilleronline.com/tran...l-recipe.shtml

[warriorway]

I think I found that dmfa it doesn't look too terribly expensive either.
Dimethylformamide
500ml $16.35
1 liter $24.21

[jonny21]

I think I found that dmfa it doesn't look too terribly expensive either.
Dimethylformamide
500ml $16.35
1 liter $24.21

Just do some reading up on it. If I remember correctly there are some issues with carcinogens. I can't remember the details but it kept me from use it it after I read it.

Besides, like i stated earlier the DMGE is probably a more efficient PE/Solvent. I used it for a Test base TD and it was perfect.

[warriorway]

https://www.aapspharmaceutica.com/se...w.asp?ID=75370

http://www.crodausa.com/datasheets/F...leicAcidNF.htm

Here are some other recipes from Basskiller's website:


http://www.basskilleronline.com/tran...l-recipe.shtml

whoa I haven't looked at bass killer stuff in ages. I couldn't find really any research on dmso as an enhancer so I kind of dismissed that even though it's easy to get.
I see your point about oleic acid too. Now I have alot to look over to decide which enhancer to use.

[warriorway]

Johnny, I did manage to find the dmge from an art suppy place, it's a bit pricey about 40 bucks a liter. But it should make for a pretty rockin' formula.

What do you think is better for a main solvent Ethyl Alcohol or Isopropyl? I think the ethyl might be better but it's hard to find at the stores because people drink it or something. I might try Sams club.

Anyone else that might be interested in trying this out I'm not really sure if I want to spend the extra dough on the gelling agents if I'm gonna spring for a really good penetration enhancer. We shall see.

[jonny21]

Isopropyl. Make sure you get some propylene glycol. It keeps skin moist which is necessary when using chemical such as isopropyl which will dry out skin subsequently reducing aborption.

[warriorway]

Well I've got everything ordered except the dmge, It turns out shipping for that would be around 50 dollars due to to hazard shipping. So I'm not sure if I want to invest that much, because I don't know if anyone would be interested in buying some of my batch on the auction.
My goal was to make something better than at retailers but way cheaper for everybody, but if I used the dmge I think it would be about the same price, and I don't know why anyone would take a chance on mine when the other stuff is proven to be acceptable. So I may just use the limolene instead of the dmge (aka transcutol).
I know my product will be different from the rest. I'm going to try to make it into a lotion like t-gel. But if that doesn't work I will make it a gel.
I can't wait to get my materials and start experimenting with the formula I came up with.

[warriorway]

My first formula hasn't worked. I bought this lotion base and a polymer thickener. But the thickener doesn't seem to work all that well, I doubled the amount that was recommended. There isn't any mention about lowering ph to thicken, that's usually used for a carbomer, which I will look into.

A natural thickener that looks promising is Cetearyl Alcohol
Cetearyl Alcohol is a fatty alcohol derived from natural oils and fats (cetyl and stearyl alcohol) that can be used to thicken and stabilize formulations.

It imparts an emollient feel to the skin. It can be used in water-in-oil emulsions, oil-in-water emulsions, and anhydrous formulations-----cream, lotion, ointment, body butter, salt scrubs. It is in the form of white flakes. Recommended usage level: 1-25%.

The key word for me is anhydrous- without water for that's what I'm working with.

If the lotion base and polymer thickener don't work, that's cool because I can make 2.5 gallons of regular lotion with it.

I like that you can use your limonene for a natural cleaner-degreaser as well.

[warriorway]

I think I've got this figured out a little more. The polymer thickener I had only works with water, no problem, its no good.

My two options are to use an emulsifying wax which is mainly that Cetearyl Alcohol I mentioned earlier. This I believe will make my product a lotion. It's usually used in a ratio up to 5% It's pretty cheap and should be easy to work with.

I found a good recipe for a carbomer gel. That stuff costs about the same as the emulsifying wax but is only used in a ratio up to 1%. So basically it's 5 times cheaper to use. But you do need to adjust ph which shouldn't be to hard with the basic formula. But I'm not sure how hard it would be to do that with all the limonene, and lauric acid that's in my formula.

Simple hand sanitizer recipe
http://www.snowdriftfarm.com/form_handsan.html

I may just go the route of easier.

[dsade]

I'd probably be interested in buying some of the DMGE from you.

[jonny21]

I'd probably be interested in buying some of the DMGE from you.

It's worth it. I used it to fix a few experimental batches of Test TD and Bold TD. It was the only thing that resolved problematic grittiness in AAS TD compounds with concentrations at or above 100mg/ml in my experiments

Just play with it in a well ventilated area, lol