Thinking of making my own trans carrier need input
- 03-19-2008, 12:02 PM
- 03-19-2008, 06:50 PM
After some trial and error, I've got a really good formula now. This stuff is thick! It still feels like your rubbing grease all over yourself, much like penetrate. I got it in a 50% ratio- 50mg per ml. Basically I put 3g each 1t and 4ad in 4oz of product. I'm not gonna lie there's a few grits in it. I think part of that is my 1t is getting old and there's some rubbery chunks in it where moisture got in, so it won't completely dissolve, you can just kind of squish those chunks and then throw them away. Other than that it absorbed well, no powdery residue, no irritation, it dried fast, there were maybe 4 little grain of sand size crystals left on my skin from 2ml of product. It also smells like coconut.
- 03-20-2008, 10:07 AM
Tried it at 40% and that stuff turned out perfect. I also heated it more than before, maybe that was the key.
03-20-2008, 01:36 PM
I just hit the jackpot guys! This news is huge! I got my powder in the formula at 100% ratio, that's 100mg per ml. It seemed to completely absorb into my skin, it went on smooth as silk and wasn't greasy at all. My skin is feeling a bit irritated though so perhaps increasing my oil and prop gly a bit might help with that.
Anybody that thinks you might need a better penetration enhancer could pretreat the skin with dmso, or limonene for that extra edge.
The only way to get the ratio that high, you have to homebrew it yourself, but I will share my method of brewing for all of you AMers out there.
Here are the ingredients and the ratio's they are at. I am just tweaking them by a fraction to help the skin not feel as irritated as I mine is now.
91% isopropyl alcohol 40%
emulsifying wax 10%
polymer sp thickner(sodium polyacrylate) 5%
extra virgin organic cocounut oil 3%
propylene glycol 2%
03-20-2008, 01:53 PM
1. Gel phase
I measure out the water in a glass jar, add my polymer sp thickener, stir for a minute until you get a thick gel. I add my propylene glycol and limonene to it, mix then set it aside.
2. Solvent phase
I measure out the alcohol in a seperate jar, heat it in the microwave, don't let it boil but warm it up. Add the powder, seal the jar and shake for up to 5 minutes until everything is dissolved.
While I am shaking the alcohol, I measure out my emulsifying wax and coconut oil in a new container and melt that down in increments of 30 seconds in the microwave.
3. Emulsion phase
Re warm the alcohol and then slowly stir the wax into it. Then add it to your gel and fully mix, funnel it into a jar, then pop it in the freezer until cool.
The emulsion is what holds everything together, usually you just let it sit and cool on it's own, but I was worried the powder would start to crash out of the solvent, so I threw it in the freezer to cool it faster and speed up the process. It worked like a charm.
03-20-2008, 01:56 PM
Another note on the gel phase. I used the sp thickener because you simply mix it with water and it thickens. You could also use carbomer which is cheaper and probably works better but you have to mess with ph to get it to thicken. I will probably use that if I ever run out of the sp.
03-20-2008, 05:15 PM
03-22-2008, 08:39 PM
Here is an old recipe from CHEMO that I copied from basskillers site
Simple Transdermal Recipe
I've heard a couple requests recently for an easy to make transdermal carrier. Phlojel Ultra is an excellent commercial product, but if you're chemically inclined, and you'd like to save a few bucks, here is an old recipe, that's just about as good as it gets for your traditional alcohol-based carriers. From our friends at AM, scrubbed up, and hopefully coherent enough to follow.
It is developed mainly for base hormones (Test Base, Boldenone Base, Nandrolone Base, etc.), but will work for many compounds to provide reasonably effective systemic delivery. The absorption rate is estimated to be around 40% with the 10% DMSO version listed below. The final product is a liquid, and while it's possible to add carbomers and thickeners to form a lotion or gel, it is considerably more involved and probably not worth the effort. Additionally, the liquid form is easier to compound - you can make it ahead of time, and just add your hormone powder and shake. Or you can dissolve the hormone earlier in the process, as described below.
40% Isopropyl Alcohol (91% or better)
15% Isopropyl Myristate
15% Isopropyl Palmitate
10% Oleic Acid
10% Propylene Glycol
10% DMSO (99% Technical Grade or better recommended)
Don't feel like doing math? Whitey's got you covered.
For a 240ml (8 oz) batch:
40% Isopropyl Alcohol = 96ml
15% Isopropyl Myristate = 36ml
15% Isopropyl Palmitate = 36ml
10% Oleic Acid = 24ml
10% Propylene Glycol = 24ml
10% DMSO = 24ml
How Does It Work?:
40% Isopropyl Alcohol - Solvent for the compound, with moderate penetration capability
15% Isopropyl Myristate - Lubricates and softens the skin to enhance penetration
15% Isopropyl Palmitate - Same as IM, but oilier
10% Oleic Acid - Penetration enhancer works by disrupting the lipid layer of the skin
10% Propylene Glycol - Seals moisture in to aid in penetration
10% DMSO - The most powerful penetration enhancer available; drawbacks - garlic and sulfur smell/taste (less pronounced in higher purity DMSO), irritates and dries out the skin
Preparation (2 easy steps):
1. Dissolve your compound in the isopropyl alcohol. You can experiment (and it will vary from compound to compound), but don't expect to get more than 50mg of compound dissolved per ml.*
--DMSO is a good solvent also, so you may want to add it in first with the isopropanol to help dissolve the compound.
2. Add the other ingredients, mix, and you're done.
--Alternative (easy) method: just pour all ingredients into a beaker, mix, pour into bottle with your compound powder and shake intensely. If necessary, soak in hot water bath, and shake again.
Dosing and Administration:
The easiest way to apply is to use a spray bottle to apply, and then just rub it in vigorously. You can measure the output of your sprayer yourself to find out how many pumps/sprays equal a ml, and calculate your dosing from there. Thin patches of skin, like the tops of your feet work best. Keeping skin moisturized and rotating application sites can boost absorption by ~15%. Apply to clean, exfoliated skin, and don't forget to remove hair in the area you apply, or you will be wasting a tremendous amount of your carrier and compound.
--DMSO changes - I would go with 10% DMSO if you can handle it, maybe 5% less, if you have sensitive skin. 10% is better for absorption, 20% is even better, of course - but anything at 15% or higher will probably destroy your skin. You may be able to mitigate this by using aloe vera gel, but make it 100% pure, with no additives, because some of what you apply will get through the skin. Let your skin and yuck factor be your guide. To keep things simple, if you add/cut DMSO, you can just add back to/take from the isopropyl alcohol.
--If you don't want to buy isopropyl palmitate, you can just substitute isopropyl myristate. But it's in there for a reason, so leave it in if you can.
--If you decide to increase the concentration and use DMSO to counter the penetration problem, you should use another solvent to dissolve the compound before adding it to the mix. PEG is an excellent solvent which you can substitute up to 10% of the isopropyl alcohol portion in order to get more compound in. Other solvents like guaiacol and benzyl salicylate may be useful as well.
*You can get more compound in the mixture, depending on how aggressive you want to be. However, you will reach diminishing returns quickly in trying to get a high concentration past the skin barrier. For best results, you need to expose as much skin as possible to a reasonable concentration of hormone/compound. In other words, less is more. If you did increase the concentration significantly, you'd need extra DMSO to pull the compound through the skin, and would have to deal corresponding irritation and stench issues.
--Respect to curt2go for the original recipe & Chemo at AM for much of the info in this post.
03-23-2008, 04:26 PM
Uhh, Big gains, that's just a recipe for the watery oily crap. No good! Well it will work if you can get in on yourself before it runs off your hand, mine stay's on and goes on! Plus I would go so far as to say it's working better than phlogel. From what I read on Jonnys thread when he tried to get it at 100mg per ml it was leaving a white flakey residue on his skin. I got that dose with mine with no flakey residue left on your skin.
Now I don't want to make Jonny mad because he did get his phlogel to work at that dose but he had to add some crazy industrial chemical to it, which I just did not want to pay a hazard shipping fee of 60 dollars to obtain.
03-23-2008, 04:36 PM
Don't worry, you won't get me mad. Mine worked perfectly. I eventually got it perfect without any grit. Phlojel never had any residual layer but the Penetrate (old avant) formula did @ 100mg/ml.
Don't forget, gettting it into solution is one thing and through the epidermis is another.
Glad you are feeling comfortable with yours. That is what is important anyway.
Last edited by jonny21; 03-23-2008 at 04:57 PM.
Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for life. Lao Tse 6th century BC
03-23-2008, 04:45 PM
03-23-2008, 06:24 PM
Thanks for showing me a place to find dmge, I've been looking over my research and am thinking of tweaking the formula some more. Pretty much experiment and see what else will work.
03-25-2008, 09:18 AM
One thing I've found out and want to try is Forskolin, Here is why:
Source of Cellular Activation Energy
"The process by which transdermal drug delivery operates involves moving molecules across chemical and electrical gradients. Under ordinary tonic conditions, the introduction of materials through the skin results in chemical cascades that consume relatively large amounts of energy as the body seeks to defend itself against the challenge. Therefore, the topical transdermal delivery system of the present invention, according to one preferred embodiment, includes a substance which brings stored energy or the stimulus for release of stored energy on a cellular level, thereby minimizing energy- negative reactions, which could lead to sensitization, ACD or anaphylaxis. By including such stored energy substance, there is a multiplied net increase in available cellular energy and, accordingly, the potential acceleration of those reactions which result in the active agent ultimately reaching its target and being effectively utilized by the body.
While the composition may be formulated to utilize adenosine diphosphate (ADP) or nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide (reduced form) (NADH) or flavin adenine dinucleotide (reduced form) (FADH 2 ) such compounds tend to be unstable and, therefore, are often not preferred.
There has been identified a group of botanical compounds which, due, apparently, to so-called signaling mechanisms, induce high concentrations of enzyme-substrate complexes to be formed, such as by activation of the N S (stimulatroy) protein of adenylate cyclase, thereby resulting in cellular levels of adenosine 3′,5′-cyclic monophosphate (cAMP) approaching the maximal limits of cellular cAMP concentration.
In particular, extracts of the plant Coleus Forskholi, and especially, Forskolin, a labdane diterpenoid, have been found to have a particular ability to stimulate the production of cAMP in cells (Refs. 14 and 15). Other extracts of Coleus Forskohli, such as, Colforsin or coleonol, for example, may also be used."
Compositions for rapid and non-irritating transdermal delivery of pharmaceutically active agents and methods for formulating such compositions and delivery thereof - Patent 6787152
After further researching Forskolin, there are other benefits I like Besides being a fat burner and possibly anabolic. Using it topically it is a natural acne fighter, and it makes the skin tan without uv light. Users of it topically have reported being able to tan better outside without burning and getting a darker tan as well.
I just wish I could get the 95% forskolin but it seems nobody was buying it and everybody quit carrying it. If you search by popularity on CNW's site, the 20% stuff is listed second to last of all the bulk products. That's a shame because I really like that stuff, I still have a bottle of Camph and C2 in my box of supps that I'll get around to using someday.