Thinking of making my own trans carrier need input
- 03-03-2008, 06:50 PM
I think the place I got it was Chemsavers.com. Found them on e-bay: http://cgi.*********/Diethylene-glyc...QQcmdZViewItemGive a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for life. Lao Tse 6th century BC
- 03-03-2008, 07:02 PM
Wow, I didn't know DMSO came in a gel also. That can be useful.Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for life. Lao Tse 6th century BC
03-05-2008, 04:27 AM
wow this is getting interesting..glad to see there are at least a few TD people out there in this day of orals vs. injectables
03-16-2008, 09:19 PM
Well I finally found a formula that works. After 4 failed attempts I finally succeeded. I pretty much knew a minute after I was stirring it that it worked, it became thick and white, just how I wanted it. Right now it is just a thin lotion, but I will know just how thick it will get once it finishes cooling.
It actually felt pretty good on my hands, it feels like there's a soft protective layer over them and they have coconut-lemony smell.
My formula is-
Hand sanitizer 65%
propylene glycol 10%
organic coconut oil extra virgin 10%
emulsifying wax 5%
The reason I chose to use hand sanitizer was that it was the missing key I needed, and it was easier for me to just use that than it was to make my own hand sanitizer with the formula I put a link too already.
I have some 4ad and 1t powder to mix in, I will let you know how much I get in and how well it works. This product should be about the same as t-gel or phlogel. I think it's much better than the non lotion products which need shaking because the ingredients seperate. This stuff will not separate because of the emulsifiers and will keep the powders suspended because of the thickeners.
I can't wait to whip up a big batch and see if I can auction some off! I think I will call it tranny-gel.
03-16-2008, 09:43 PM
I may have spoke too soon, my other formula which I made before the one I wrote about gelled up quite nicely too, with that stuff I did not use hand sanitizer I used.
isopropyl alcohol 85grams
water 71 g
Lotion base 10%
polyacrylate thickener .03%
emulsifying wax 10%
coconut oil .03%
propylene glycol .03%
This stuff seems thicker in consistency, more gel like but not as smooth, more bubbly than lotion, like the earlier formula. It also seems like the alcohol content is much too high. I think it needs less alcohol and water and more glycol, limonene, and coconut oil.
I honestly think I like the feel and look of the hand sanitizer one better. The lotion base and thickener are meant for water based lotions, it just doesn't seem to work quite right with an alcohol base.
03-16-2008, 10:41 PM
03-16-2008, 11:38 PM
Now that my other formula's settled they both actually look about the same. The hand sanitizer one looks thinner but cleaner, I don't know why you think it would be poor it's 65% ethyl alcohol which is the primary solvent in some of the script formulas I looked at.
I haven't decided which formula I want to use yet, but I'm going to rework the second one, I think that's the one I want to use.
03-16-2008, 11:43 PM
The hand sanitzier is useless. It was never meant to penetrate. Just work topically on bacteria.
Last edited by jonny21; 03-17-2008 at 06:28 PM.
Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for life. Lao Tse 6th century BC
03-17-2008, 01:43 AM
Why does hand sanitizer seem so interesting to so many people, I don't get it?
Last edited by fatsuperman; 03-17-2008 at 04:03 AM.
03-17-2008, 03:59 AM
If anything Id just get something like Penetrate then add DMSO or something it doesnt have to make it all that much better. JMO.
03-17-2008, 05:09 PM
03-17-2008, 05:16 PM
Penetrate doesn't seem that cheap to me, and I don't like it. It's oily, runny, it separates and all the powder falls down to the bottom. The stuff I'm making is like t-gel, which used to cost me 20 bucks for 4 ounces. I was thinking of offering up 10 oz for about 12 bucks.
03-17-2008, 05:37 PM
Pasted from Hormone replacement therapy drug formulations for topical application to the skin
SUMMARY OF INVENTION
The present invention has as a principal object to provide stable topical compositions effective for the transdermal application of testosterone, estradiol, or other hormone compounds by the application of the composition to the skin.
The above and other objects of the invention, which will become more apparent from the following more detailed description and preferred embodiments is achieved, according to a first aspect of the invention, by an hormonal drug containing alcoholic or aqueous alcoholic composition which comprises, on a weight basis, of the total composition:
a therapeutically effective amount of hormonal drug;
a skin penetration enhancing effective amount, in the range of from about 0.5 to 25%, of a C 7 to C 14 -hydrocarbyl substituted 1,3-dioxolane, 1,3-dioxane or acetal (which may hereinafter be collectively referred to as SPE);
0 to about 30% of 1,2-diol having from 3 to 6 carbon atoms;
at least about 35% of volatile alcohol selected from the group consisting of ethanol, propanol and mixture thereof;
0 to about 40% water; and,
optionally, a gelling agent effective to thicken the composition to avoid or minimize run-off when applied to the skin.
In preferred embodiments of this aspect of the invention the ingredients are included in the formulation in the following ranges:
from about 0.01 to 10%, preferably 1 to 6%, especially preferably 1.0 to 4% hormone;
from about 2 to 15%, preferably 5 to 10% of SPE wherein the hydrocarbyl group substituent has from about 7 to 10 carbon atoms;
from about 5 to 30%, preferably 5 to 20% propylene glycol;
from about 35 to 70% ethanol, isopropanol or mixture thereof;
from about 0 to 35% water; and,
up to about 4% of cellulosic thickener.
03-17-2008, 05:48 PM
If you read the link it states that they add a Chemical Penetration Enhancer (CPE) to increase penetration: ...have enhanced penetration through skin by including in the formulation 2-n-nonyl-1,3-dioxolane or other hydrocarbyl derivative of 1,3-dioxolane or 1,3-dioxane or acetal, as skin penetration enhancing compound
Honestly, I really do not want to argue with you. You sound pretty set in your mind so have a ball. Rub as much hand sanitizer on as you like.
03-17-2008, 06:05 PM
I'm trying one more formula here without the hand sanitizer, or the lotion base/acrylate thickener. This one should be it, I think I've got the hang of this now. Before when I was having trouble it was because I was leaving out the water.
03-17-2008, 06:11 PM
03-17-2008, 06:28 PM
03-17-2008, 07:05 PM
I can only speculate the ammounts of the ingredients that's in penetrate. I'm more or less copying the ratio's for prescription test gel. While I don't have the chemical penetration enhancer available due to high cost of hazard shipping, I can use limonene at the same ratio the test gel would use for it's enhancer, which is 10% So I'm using the proper ratio's is what I'm saying.
There are also advantages to using a gel base, which I've already listed but are, a gel base product spreads the hormone more evenly and holds it on the skin better. That alone more than makes up for anything my stuff might be lacking, you know? You get even distribution for proper absorbtion, and not nearly as much product loss due to it flaking off as you would with a watery base product.
03-17-2008, 08:42 PM
I use phlojel with d-limonene and dmge and can get 100mg/ml without residual and i would venture to guess a much higher absorption rate than your formula. Granted, phlojel costs more but when you factor in absorption, concentration and ease of application I think the cost is insignificant.
03-17-2008, 11:32 PM
I'm not mad at you, but this is my thread and I will defend it. I have researched tons, I know how to make this stuff, believe it or not, I don't care. I've been on this board longer than you by the way.
03-17-2008, 11:55 PM
Im sorry that was about the most immature thing Ive seen posted on these boards when coming from a guy who is saying hes done so much research claiming intelligence right before it.
I agree you may know what your doing and have the right to defend your thread but that was just silly sir. Good luck with your transdermal but I think Ill stick to what I know to work for a few more bucks.
03-18-2008, 12:04 AM
03-18-2008, 12:46 AM
lets just simma down now... SIMMA DOWN NOW!!!!
cant even remember whats that from but its awesome....
theres one for you too then
03-18-2008, 06:37 AM
There is a difference between solvent and penetration enhancer.
Your time on the forum means what? I'll tell you, nothing.
I have been walking the planet longer, does that mean anything? No
I have read what you have been posting. I just disagree. I'll unsubscribe now. You do realize that with a .5% compound you will probably have to apply close to 20ml a day? Oh wait of course you do, you have been on the board longer than I
Last edited by jonny21; 03-20-2008 at 08:12 PM.
03-18-2008, 03:20 PM
The formula I tried out yesterday didn't seem to work that well, it's a wonder I even did anything spending all my free time answering redundant questions yesterday. Being ganged up on got me really TO'd by the end of the night.
03-18-2008, 04:48 PM
8ml per day would last 37 days, that would have me on a dose of 372.8mg per day, which I think is more than adequate.
Hopefully my math is correct, I think it is, but when I'm wrong I will admit to it.
03-18-2008, 06:09 PM
Its actually my fault. I should have tried to explain that a compound like Androgel, which you are mimicking your carrier, only delivers 5mg Testosterone per 5 grams (http://www.androgel.com/hcp/benefits_androgel.html). Now, when you work with gel you have to figure ~1g:1.1ml, at least that is what pharmacists do for phlojel ultra. Do the math 5.5ml=5mg. When I wrote 5% I think it should have been .5% since Androgel is labeled as 1% but only delivers 5mg per 5g which is actually .1%
Really, all I am saying is there is better ways and premade carriers that surpass the efficay of products like Androgel.
03-18-2008, 06:49 PM
Ok I get it 1ml to 50mg ratio=50% That seems like a strange way of putting it. I would be perfectly happy with that ratio and who knows, maybe I can get it higher than that.
That seems like a bold statement about being better carriers than what's in androgel, you simply cannot compete with the money and resources pharmaceutical companies have. You seem to prefer your phlogel, what makes it so different? I can't find anything on it, it's made by avant labs correct?
03-18-2008, 06:56 PM
jarpharma2007 - Products)
This is what some pharmacists use for compounding transdermal products.
The original Avant formula is now Dermabolics transport matrix and the same formula as Penetrate.
03-19-2008, 10:36 AM
That looks cool, but it's not for me. I don't have health insurance and it costs like 150 dollars just to see a doctor.