Thinking of making my own trans carrier need input - AnabolicMinds.com - Page 2

Thinking of making my own trans carrier need input

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    Quote Originally Posted by fatsuperman View Post
    Why does hand sanitizer seem so interesting to so many people, I don't get it?
    Basically to use carbomer as a thickener, you make hand sanitizer for the first phase of the formula, you do this because the carbomer takes time to swell. So you make that first, then add the other ingredients later. All it is is alcohol, water, carbomer, and the ph adjuster.

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    Poopy
    Penetrate doesn't seem that cheap to me, and I don't like it. It's oily, runny, it separates and all the powder falls down to the bottom. The stuff I'm making is like t-gel, which used to cost me 20 bucks for 4 ounces. I was thinking of offering up 10 oz for about 12 bucks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonny21 View Post
    Ethyle alcohol is a solvent without any penetration capabilites. The d-limonene is the only penetration enhancer in your formula. It is always best to add a few so they can work synergistically.
    The hand sanitzier is useless. It was never meant to penetrate. Just work topically on bacteria.
    I don't know if this helps to explain my reasoning, but all the formulas I've researched places ethylene as preferred over isopropyl, they always list it first anyways. I've also found other research that said alcohol is a penetration enhancer, and coconut oil is pure lauric acid, and that it's the best natural penetration enhancer of all the oils.

    Pasted from Hormone replacement therapy drug formulations for topical application to the skin
    http://www.freepatentsonline.com/5968919.html

    SUMMARY OF INVENTION
    The present invention has as a principal object to provide stable topical compositions effective for the transdermal application of testosterone, estradiol, or other hormone compounds by the application of the composition to the skin.
    The above and other objects of the invention, which will become more apparent from the following more detailed description and preferred embodiments is achieved, according to a first aspect of the invention, by an hormonal drug containing alcoholic or aqueous alcoholic composition which comprises, on a weight basis, of the total composition:
    a therapeutically effective amount of hormonal drug;
    a skin penetration enhancing effective amount, in the range of from about 0.5 to 25%, of a C 7 to C 14 -hydrocarbyl substituted 1,3-dioxolane, 1,3-dioxane or acetal (which may hereinafter be collectively referred to as SPE);
    0 to about 30% of 1,2-diol having from 3 to 6 carbon atoms;
    at least about 35% of volatile alcohol selected from the group consisting of ethanol, propanol and mixture thereof;
    0 to about 40% water; and,
    optionally, a gelling agent effective to thicken the composition to avoid or minimize run-off when applied to the skin.
    In preferred embodiments of this aspect of the invention the ingredients are included in the formulation in the following ranges:
    from about 0.01 to 10%, preferably 1 to 6%, especially preferably 1.0 to 4% hormone;
    from about 2 to 15%, preferably 5 to 10% of SPE wherein the hydrocarbyl group substituent has from about 7 to 10 carbon atoms;
    from about 5 to 30%, preferably 5 to 20% propylene glycol;
    from about 35 to 70% ethanol, isopropanol or mixture thereof;
    from about 0 to 35% water; and,
    up to about 4% of cellulosic thickener.
    •   
       

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    If you read the link it states that they add a Chemical Penetration Enhancer (CPE) to increase penetration: ...have enhanced penetration through skin by including in the formulation 2-n-nonyl-1,3-dioxolane or other hydrocarbyl derivative of 1,3-dioxolane or 1,3-dioxane or acetal, as skin penetration enhancing compound

    Honestly, I really do not want to argue with you. You sound pretty set in your mind so have a ball. Rub as much hand sanitizer on as you like.
    Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for life. Lao Tse 6th century BC
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    I'm trying one more formula here without the hand sanitizer, or the lotion base/acrylate thickener. This one should be it, I think I've got the hang of this now. Before when I was having trouble it was because I was leaving out the water.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonny21 View Post
    If you read the link it states that they add a Chemical Penetration Enhancer (CPE) to increase penetration: ...have enhanced penetration through skin by including in the formulation 2-n-nonyl-1,3-dioxolane or other hydrocarbyl derivative of 1,3-dioxolane or 1,3-dioxane or acetal, as skin penetration enhancing compound

    Honestly, I really do not want to argue with you. You sound pretty set in your mind so have a ball. Rub as much hand sanitizer on as you like.
    I was never set on using hand sanitizer in the first place, if you read what I wrote in the next post after I posted a pic, I said Oh my other formula gelled up too in which I didn't use any hand sanitizer.
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    Quote Originally Posted by warriorway View Post
    Poopy
    Penetrate doesn't seem that cheap to me, and I don't like it. It's oily, runny, it separates and all the powder falls down to the bottom. The stuff I'm making is like t-gel, which used to cost me 20 bucks for 4 ounces. I was thinking of offering up 10 oz for about 12 bucks.
    I dont know what your relatively thinking but 12 bucks for 8oz penetrate isnt much, the DMSO in gel form would thicken it up as well and keep it from crashing so much..... JMO but how do you know youll even get close to the same absorption rate with your formula considering your not using nearly the same amount of stuff in a penatrate DMSO combo for pure penetration.
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    Quote Originally Posted by poopypants View Post
    I dont know what your relatively thinking but 12 bucks for 8oz penetrate isnt much, the DMSO in gel form would thicken it up as well and keep it from crashing so much..... JMO but how do you know youll even get close to the same absorption rate with your formula considering your not using nearly the same amount of stuff in a penatrate DMSO combo for pure penetration.
    12.00 for penetrate+7.00 shipping, 8.00 dmso plus 6.00 shipping = kinda spendy

    I can only speculate the ammounts of the ingredients that's in penetrate. I'm more or less copying the ratio's for prescription test gel. While I don't have the chemical penetration enhancer available due to high cost of hazard shipping, I can use limonene at the same ratio the test gel would use for it's enhancer, which is 10% So I'm using the proper ratio's is what I'm saying.

    There are also advantages to using a gel base, which I've already listed but are, a gel base product spreads the hormone more evenly and holds it on the skin better. That alone more than makes up for anything my stuff might be lacking, you know? You get even distribution for proper absorbtion, and not nearly as much product loss due to it flaking off as you would with a watery base product.
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    Quote Originally Posted by warriorway View Post
    12.00 for penetrate+7.00 shipping, 8.00 dmso plus 6.00 shipping = kinda spendy

    I can only speculate the ammounts of the ingredients that's in penetrate. I'm more or less copying the ratio's for prescription test gel. While I don't have the chemical penetration enhancer available due to high cost of hazard shipping, I can use limonene at the same ratio the test gel would use for it's enhancer, which is 10% So I'm using the proper ratio's is what I'm saying.

    There are also advantages to using a gel base, which I've already listed but are, a gel base product spreads the hormone more evenly and holds it on the skin better. That alone more than makes up for anything my stuff might be lacking, you know? You get even distribution for proper absorbtion, and not nearly as much product loss due to it flaking off as you would with a watery base product.
    I would hope that you also considered what the maximum concentration of your carrier will be to provide maximum absorption. Now I know for sure that Penetrate will hold up to a 50% final concentration (50mg/ml) of test. I would assume that since you are modeling your gel off of commercial Test gels it would achieve similar concentrations (1%) for maximum efficacy. Do you have any idea how many ml of gel you will need to apply to reach a decent dosage? do you actually think you are going to recreate the wheel with your carrier?

    I use phlojel with d-limonene and dmge and can get 100mg/ml without residual and i would venture to guess a much higher absorption rate than your formula. Granted, phlojel costs more but when you factor in absorption, concentration and ease of application I think the cost is insignificant.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonny21 View Post
    I would hope that you also considered what the maximum concentration of your carrier will be to provide maximum absorption. Now I know for sure that Penetrate will hold up to a 50% final concentration (50mg/ml) of test. I would assume that since you are modeling your gel off of commercial Test gels it would achieve similar concentrations (1%) for maximum efficacy. Do you have any idea how many ml of gel you will need to apply to reach a decent dosage? do you actually think you are going to recreate the wheel with your carrier?

    I use phlojel with d-limonene and dmge and can get 100mg/ml without residual and i would venture to guess a much higher absorption rate than your formula. Granted, phlojel costs more but when you factor in absorption, concentration and ease of application I think the cost is insignificant.
    It should be similar to penetrate. What are you trying to get at about recreating the wheel? I'm not trying to recreate anything! I'm just defending my thread. You tell me ethylene sucks, when I have tons of research where ethylene is the ideal solvent. You haven't even read half the things I wrote in this thread. If you did you would know I had more than one formula for a t-gel that worked, and you would know I haven't tried to see how much 1t-4ad powder I can get in it yet. It should be up to 5% with 4 being ideal.
    I'm not mad at you, but this is my thread and I will defend it. I have researched tons, I know how to make this stuff, believe it or not, I don't care. I've been on this board longer than you by the way.
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    Quote Originally Posted by warriorway View Post
    It should be similar to penetrate. What are you trying to get at about recreating the wheel? I'm not trying to recreate anything! I'm just defending my thread. You tell me ethylene sucks, when I have tons of research where ethylene is the ideal solvent. You haven't even read half the things I wrote in this thread. If you did you would know I had more than one formula for a t-gel that worked, and you would know I haven't tried to see how much 1t-4ad powder I can get in it yet. It should be up to 5% with 4 being ideal.
    I'm not mad at you, but this is my thread and I will defend it. I have researched tons, I know how to make this stuff, believe it or not, I don't care. I've been on this board longer than you by the way.
    WOW!!! did you just pull rank of 5 months on a guy whos been here a total of almost 3 years himself??? you also shoot yourself in the foot with that one since you dont even have 1/4 the posts this gentleman has. Most of which are all very informative and show how muck knowledge he has regarding anabolics and their use. How do you know how many years he may have lurked before that and how many other boards that he may have been part of that might of been shut down without you ever knowing they exists???

    Im sorry that was about the most immature thing Ive seen posted on these boards when coming from a guy who is saying hes done so much research claiming intelligence right before it.

    I agree you may know what your doing and have the right to defend your thread but that was just silly sir. Good luck with your transdermal but I think Ill stick to what I know to work for a few more bucks.
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    Well he needs to lay off and the smiley guys mean it was a joke, duh?
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    lets just simma down now... SIMMA DOWN NOW!!!!

    cant even remember whats that from but its awesome....

    theres one for you too then
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    Quote Originally Posted by warriorway View Post
    It should be similar to penetrate. What are you trying to get at about recreating the wheel? I'm not trying to recreate anything! I'm just defending my thread. You tell me ethylene sucks, when I have tons of research where ethylene is the ideal solvent. You haven't even read half the things I wrote in this thread. If you did you would know I had more than one formula for a t-gel that worked, and you would know I haven't tried to see how much 1t-4ad powder I can get in it yet. It should be up to 5% with 4 being ideal.
    I'm not mad at you, but this is my thread and I will defend it. I have researched tons, I know how to make this stuff, believe it or not, I don't care. I've been on this board longer than you by the way.
    Why are you defending your thread? Ethylene or ethyl alcohol?

    There is a difference between solvent and penetration enhancer.

    Your time on the forum means what? I'll tell you, nothing.

    I have been walking the planet longer, does that mean anything? No

    I have read what you have been posting. I just disagree. I'll unsubscribe now. You do realize that with a .5% compound you will probably have to apply close to 20ml a day? Oh wait of course you do, you have been on the board longer than I
    Last edited by jonny21; 03-20-2008 at 06:12 PM.
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    The formula I tried out yesterday didn't seem to work that well, it's a wonder I even did anything spending all my free time answering redundant questions yesterday. Being ganged up on got me really TO'd by the end of the night.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonny21 View Post
    Why are you defending your thread? Ethylene or ethyl alcohol?

    There is a difference between solvent and penetration enhancer.

    Your time on the forum means what? I'll tell you, nothing.

    I have been walking the planet longer, does that mean anything? No

    I have read what you have been posting. I just disagree. I'll unsubscribe now. You do realize that with a 5% compound you will probably have to apply close to 20ml a day? Oh wait of course you do, you have been on the board longer than I
    I don't know why he's trying to make me look bad? In 10oz of gel 5%= roughly 14 grams of powder, not too shabby. We'll see how much more I can get into it later once I've decided on the best formula. Anyways at that ratio I would have 46.6mg per ml in a 300 ml batch.
    8ml per day would last 37 days, that would have me on a dose of 372.8mg per day, which I think is more than adequate.

    Hopefully my math is correct, I think it is, but when I'm wrong I will admit to it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by warriorway View Post
    I don't know why he's trying to make me look bad? In 10oz of gel 5%= roughly 14 grams of powder, not too shabby. We'll see how much more I can get into it later once I've decided on the best formula. Anyways at that ratio I would have 46.6mg per ml in a 300 ml batch.
    8ml per day would last 37 days, that would have me on a dose of 372.8mg per day, which I think is more than adequate.

    Hopefully my math is correct, I think it is, but when I'm wrong I will admit to it.
    I am not trying to make you look bad. Just trying to explain and show that some of your logic is flawed.

    Its actually my fault. I should have tried to explain that a compound like Androgel, which you are mimicking your carrier, only delivers 5mg Testosterone per 5 grams (http://www.androgel.com/hcp/benefits_androgel.html). Now, when you work with gel you have to figure ~1g:1.1ml, at least that is what pharmacists do for phlojel ultra. Do the math 5.5ml=5mg. When I wrote 5% I think it should have been .5% since Androgel is labeled as 1% but only delivers 5mg per 5g which is actually .1%

    Really, all I am saying is there is better ways and premade carriers that surpass the efficay of products like Androgel.
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    Ok I get it 1ml to 50mg ratio=50% That seems like a strange way of putting it. I would be perfectly happy with that ratio and who knows, maybe I can get it higher than that.

    That seems like a bold statement about being better carriers than what's in androgel, you simply cannot compete with the money and resources pharmaceutical companies have. You seem to prefer your phlogel, what makes it so different? I can't find anything on it, it's made by avant labs correct?
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    Quote Originally Posted by warriorway View Post
    Ok I get it 1ml to 50mg ratio=50% That seems like a strange way of putting it. I would be perfectly happy with that ratio and who knows, maybe I can get it higher than that.
    No, that was my error. 5% is 50mg/ml. My concern was that you will get much less than that, hopefully I am wrong.


    Quote Originally Posted by warriorway View Post
    That seems like a bold statement about being better carriers than what's in androgel, you simply cannot compete with the money and resources pharmaceutical companies have. You seem to prefer your phlogel, what makes it so different? I can't find anything on it, it's made by avant labs correct?
    No, it is made by JAR pharmaceuticals (jarpharma2007 - Products)

    This is what some pharmacists use for compounding transdermal products.

    The original Avant formula is now Dermabolics transport matrix and the same formula as Penetrate.
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    That looks cool, but it's not for me. I don't have health insurance and it costs like 150 dollars just to see a doctor.
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    Quote Originally Posted by warriorway View Post
    That looks cool, but it's not for me. I don't have health insurance and it costs like 150 dollars just to see a doctor.
    You do not need a physician's order to get phlojel. PM me if you would like a link.
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    After some trial and error, I've got a really good formula now. This stuff is thick! It still feels like your rubbing grease all over yourself, much like penetrate. I got it in a 50% ratio- 50mg per ml. Basically I put 3g each 1t and 4ad in 4oz of product. I'm not gonna lie there's a few grits in it. I think part of that is my 1t is getting old and there's some rubbery chunks in it where moisture got in, so it won't completely dissolve, you can just kind of squish those chunks and then throw them away. Other than that it absorbed well, no powdery residue, no irritation, it dried fast, there were maybe 4 little grain of sand size crystals left on my skin from 2ml of product. It also smells like coconut.
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    Tried it at 40% and that stuff turned out perfect. I also heated it more than before, maybe that was the key.
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    I just hit the jackpot guys! This news is huge! I got my powder in the formula at 100% ratio, that's 100mg per ml. It seemed to completely absorb into my skin, it went on smooth as silk and wasn't greasy at all. My skin is feeling a bit irritated though so perhaps increasing my oil and prop gly a bit might help with that.

    Anybody that thinks you might need a better penetration enhancer could pretreat the skin with dmso, or limonene for that extra edge.

    The only way to get the ratio that high, you have to homebrew it yourself, but I will share my method of brewing for all of you AMers out there.

    Here are the ingredients and the ratio's they are at. I am just tweaking them by a fraction to help the skin not feel as irritated as I mine is now.

    91% isopropyl alcohol 40%
    water 38%
    emulsifying wax 10%
    polymer sp thickner(sodium polyacrylate) 5%
    extra virgin organic cocounut oil 3%
    propylene glycol 2%
    d-limonene 2%
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    1. Gel phase
    I measure out the water in a glass jar, add my polymer sp thickener, stir for a minute until you get a thick gel. I add my propylene glycol and limonene to it, mix then set it aside.

    2. Solvent phase
    I measure out the alcohol in a seperate jar, heat it in the microwave, don't let it boil but warm it up. Add the powder, seal the jar and shake for up to 5 minutes until everything is dissolved.
    While I am shaking the alcohol, I measure out my emulsifying wax and coconut oil in a new container and melt that down in increments of 30 seconds in the microwave.

    3. Emulsion phase
    Re warm the alcohol and then slowly stir the wax into it. Then add it to your gel and fully mix, funnel it into a jar, then pop it in the freezer until cool.

    The emulsion is what holds everything together, usually you just let it sit and cool on it's own, but I was worried the powder would start to crash out of the solvent, so I threw it in the freezer to cool it faster and speed up the process. It worked like a charm.
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    Another note on the gel phase. I used the sp thickener because you simply mix it with water and it thickens. You could also use carbomer which is cheaper and probably works better but you have to mess with ph to get it to thicken. I will probably use that if I ever run out of the sp.
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    Here is what 1ml looked like @100mg per ml.
    Attached Images Attached Images  
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    Here is an old recipe from CHEMO that I copied from basskillers site
    Simple Transdermal Recipe
    I've heard a couple requests recently for an easy to make transdermal carrier. Phlojel Ultra is an excellent commercial product, but if you're chemically inclined, and you'd like to save a few bucks, here is an old recipe, that's just about as good as it gets for your traditional alcohol-based carriers. From our friends at AM, scrubbed up, and hopefully coherent enough to follow.

    It is developed mainly for base hormones (Test Base, Boldenone Base, Nandrolone Base, etc.), but will work for many compounds to provide reasonably effective systemic delivery. The absorption rate is estimated to be around 40% with the 10% DMSO version listed below. The final product is a liquid, and while it's possible to add carbomers and thickeners to form a lotion or gel, it is considerably more involved and probably not worth the effort. Additionally, the liquid form is easier to compound - you can make it ahead of time, and just add your hormone powder and shake. Or you can dissolve the hormone earlier in the process, as described below.


    Ingredients:
    40% Isopropyl Alcohol (91% or better)
    15% Isopropyl Myristate
    15% Isopropyl Palmitate
    10% Oleic Acid
    10% Propylene Glycol
    10% DMSO (99% Technical Grade or better recommended)


    Don't feel like doing math? Whitey's got you covered.
    For a 240ml (8 oz) batch:
    40% Isopropyl Alcohol = 96ml
    15% Isopropyl Myristate = 36ml
    15% Isopropyl Palmitate = 36ml
    10% Oleic Acid = 24ml
    10% Propylene Glycol = 24ml
    10% DMSO = 24ml


    How Does It Work?:
    40% Isopropyl Alcohol - Solvent for the compound, with moderate penetration capability
    15% Isopropyl Myristate - Lubricates and softens the skin to enhance penetration
    15% Isopropyl Palmitate - Same as IM, but oilier
    10% Oleic Acid - Penetration enhancer works by disrupting the lipid layer of the skin
    10% Propylene Glycol - Seals moisture in to aid in penetration
    10% DMSO - The most powerful penetration enhancer available; drawbacks - garlic and sulfur smell/taste (less pronounced in higher purity DMSO), irritates and dries out the skin


    Preparation (2 easy steps):

    1. Dissolve your compound in the isopropyl alcohol. You can experiment (and it will vary from compound to compound), but don't expect to get more than 50mg of compound dissolved per ml.*
    --DMSO is a good solvent also, so you may want to add it in first with the isopropanol to help dissolve the compound.

    2. Add the other ingredients, mix, and you're done.
    --Alternative (easy) method: just pour all ingredients into a beaker, mix, pour into bottle with your compound powder and shake intensely. If necessary, soak in hot water bath, and shake again.


    Dosing and Administration:
    The easiest way to apply is to use a spray bottle to apply, and then just rub it in vigorously. You can measure the output of your sprayer yourself to find out how many pumps/sprays equal a ml, and calculate your dosing from there. Thin patches of skin, like the tops of your feet work best. Keeping skin moisturized and rotating application sites can boost absorption by ~15%. Apply to clean, exfoliated skin, and don't forget to remove hair in the area you apply, or you will be wasting a tremendous amount of your carrier and compound.


    Modifications:
    --DMSO changes - I would go with 10% DMSO if you can handle it, maybe 5% less, if you have sensitive skin. 10% is better for absorption, 20% is even better, of course - but anything at 15% or higher will probably destroy your skin. You may be able to mitigate this by using aloe vera gel, but make it 100% pure, with no additives, because some of what you apply will get through the skin. Let your skin and yuck factor be your guide. To keep things simple, if you add/cut DMSO, you can just add back to/take from the isopropyl alcohol.

    --If you don't want to buy isopropyl palmitate, you can just substitute isopropyl myristate. But it's in there for a reason, so leave it in if you can.

    --If you decide to increase the concentration and use DMSO to counter the penetration problem, you should use another solvent to dissolve the compound before adding it to the mix. PEG is an excellent solvent which you can substitute up to 10% of the isopropyl alcohol portion in order to get more compound in. Other solvents like guaiacol and benzyl salicylate may be useful as well.


    Cheers,

    -Whitey-

    *You can get more compound in the mixture, depending on how aggressive you want to be. However, you will reach diminishing returns quickly in trying to get a high concentration past the skin barrier. For best results, you need to expose as much skin as possible to a reasonable concentration of hormone/compound. In other words, less is more. If you did increase the concentration significantly, you'd need extra DMSO to pull the compound through the skin, and would have to deal corresponding irritation and stench issues.

    --Respect to curt2go for the original recipe & Chemo at AM for much of the info in this post.
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    Uhh, Big gains, that's just a recipe for the watery oily crap. No good! Well it will work if you can get in on yourself before it runs off your hand, mine stay's on and goes on! Plus I would go so far as to say it's working better than phlogel. From what I read on Jonnys thread when he tried to get it at 100mg per ml it was leaving a white flakey residue on his skin. I got that dose with mine with no flakey residue left on your skin.
    Now I don't want to make Jonny mad because he did get his phlogel to work at that dose but he had to add some crazy industrial chemical to it, which I just did not want to pay a hazard shipping fee of 60 dollars to obtain.
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    Don't worry, you won't get me mad. Mine worked perfectly. I eventually got it perfect without any grit. Phlojel never had any residual layer but the Penetrate (old avant) formula did @ 100mg/ml.

    Don't forget, gettting it into solution is one thing and through the epidermis is another.

    Glad you are feeling comfortable with yours. That is what is important anyway.
    Last edited by jonny21; 03-23-2008 at 03:57 PM.
    Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for life. Lao Tse 6th century BC
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    Well that's mighty kind of you sir, thanks for stopping by!
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    Thanks for showing me a place to find dmge, I've been looking over my research and am thinking of tweaking the formula some more. Pretty much experiment and see what else will work.
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    One thing I've found out and want to try is Forskolin, Here is why:

    Source of Cellular Activation Energy
    "The process by which transdermal drug delivery operates involves moving molecules across chemical and electrical gradients. Under ordinary tonic conditions, the introduction of materials through the skin results in chemical cascades that consume relatively large amounts of energy as the body seeks to defend itself against the challenge. Therefore, the topical transdermal delivery system of the present invention, according to one preferred embodiment, includes a substance which brings stored energy or the stimulus for release of stored energy on a cellular level, thereby minimizing energy- negative reactions, which could lead to sensitization, ACD or anaphylaxis. By including such stored energy substance, there is a multiplied net increase in available cellular energy and, accordingly, the potential acceleration of those reactions which result in the active agent ultimately reaching its target and being effectively utilized by the body.
    While the composition may be formulated to utilize adenosine diphosphate (ADP) or nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide (reduced form) (NADH) or flavin adenine dinucleotide (reduced form) (FADH 2 ) such compounds tend to be unstable and, therefore, are often not preferred.
    There has been identified a group of botanical compounds which, due, apparently, to so-called signaling mechanisms, induce high concentrations of enzyme-substrate complexes to be formed, such as by activation of the N S (stimulatroy) protein of adenylate cyclase, thereby resulting in cellular levels of adenosine 3′,5′-cyclic monophosphate (cAMP) approaching the maximal limits of cellular cAMP concentration.
    In particular, extracts of the plant Coleus Forskholi, and especially, Forskolin, a labdane diterpenoid, have been found to have a particular ability to stimulate the production of cAMP in cells (Refs. 14 and 15). Other extracts of Coleus Forskohli, such as, Colforsin or coleonol, for example, may also be used."

    Compositions for rapid and non-irritating transdermal delivery of pharmaceutically active agents and methods for formulating such compositions and delivery thereof - Patent 6787152

    After further researching Forskolin, there are other benefits I like Besides being a fat burner and possibly anabolic. Using it topically it is a natural acne fighter, and it makes the skin tan without uv light. Users of it topically have reported being able to tan better outside without burning and getting a darker tan as well.

    I just wish I could get the 95% forskolin but it seems nobody was buying it and everybody quit carrying it. If you search by popularity on CNW's site, the 20% stuff is listed second to last of all the bulk products. That's a shame because I really like that stuff, I still have a bottle of Camph and C2 in my box of supps that I'll get around to using someday.
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