Transdermal Adrenosterone (11-oxo)

johnfaceman

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So I have some adrenosterone to mess with. I remember PA saying that he felt as if adrenosterone would be good topically but couldn't market it as a transdermal. It also seems as if the MW is 300.4. I am wondering what kind of carrier, and what dose regimine would be neccessary for this. Any suggestions welcome.

Also I need a new place to buy D-limonene, I posted in the supps forum and no one has responded. Thanks in advance for the help. I am very willing to post my impressions and results here for those interested! :dance:
 

warnerve

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personally, i would just get penetrate from nutraplanet. i had plans to do the same thing and run the adreno at ~300 mg split up into two applications a day, but it was all sold out before i could buy any :(

since no one has told us what the oral bioavailability is, you are gonna kinda have to go by feel/results with the dosing. it could be similar to 4ad, where you are getting far more active, or it could be like 1,4ad, where transdermal is kinda a waste

good luck with it
 
T-Bone

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I am interested in this as well. If it is ever available again I may try this. Glad I'm not the guina pig though.
 
fatsuperman

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Ditto on the Penetrate recommendation

Its cheap and it has a good amount of D-limonene in it as well, I can smell it.
 
johnfaceman

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Thanks for the recommendations guys :clap2: . I have some penetrate on the way. I will give it a go and just hope I do not waste it. Any other tips are more then welcome :dance:
 
johnfaceman

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Ok guys I am mixing 10 grams into penetrate as we speak:

10,000mg adreno/240ml of Penetrate = 41.7mg/ml

I will likely dose 450mg a day so:

1 squirt equals 1 ml.... 450 divided by 41.7 = 10.8 squirts a day.

How does my math look.
 
jef2007

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Ok guys I am mixing 10 grams into penetrate as we speak:

10,000mg adreno/240ml of Penetrate = 41.7mg/ml

I will likely dose 450mg a day so:

1 squirt equals 1 ml.... 450 divided by 41.7 = 10.8 squirts a day.

How does my math look.
this is what i want to learn to do, i know theres starter kits,need to mill around, any advice in helping a new bro, be appriciated
 
jmh80

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Ok guys I am mixing 10 grams into penetrate as we speak:

10,000mg adreno/240ml of Penetrate = 41.7mg/ml

I will likely dose 450mg a day so:

1 squirt equals 1 ml.... 450 divided by 41.7 = 10.8 squirts a day.

How does my math look.
Did you take into account the added volume of the powder? Should be around 10 mL's or so.


BTW - I'm going to try 250 mgs/day transdermally, I think.
 
johnfaceman

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Did you take into account the added volume of the powder? Should be around 10 mL's or so.


BTW - I'm going to try 250 mgs/day transdermally, I think.
Good to know. Let me know how it does for you. So far nothing way out of the ordinary in the past 2 days.
 
jef2007

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what phs that give you strenght can you break down into a TD? i heard you can use bold, but what else?and if you bought the 8 0z kit how much powder do you use?
 
jmh80

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Jef,
No idea what you are saying. You have to use a non-alkylated hormone (I.E. test or bold base) to keep the molecular weight small enough to allow for absorption.


John,
Did you have trouble getting 10 grams of the adreno into Penetrate without chunks? I've got maybe a quarter of a gram or so that WILL NOT go into solution. I've heated it 3 or 4 times, added a nut to help with mixing (need to get a magnet and take that out).

I started it today. What I could get into solution went on fine. Didn't notice anything today.
 
johnfaceman

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Jef,
No idea what you are saying. You have to use a non-alkylated hormone (I.E. test or bold base) to keep the molecular weight small enough to allow for absorption.


John,
Did you have trouble getting 10 grams of the adreno into Penetrate without chunks? I've got maybe a quarter of a gram or so that WILL NOT go into solution. I've heated it 3 or 4 times, added a nut to help with mixing (need to get a magnet and take that out).

I started it today. What I could get into solution went on fine. Didn't notice anything today.
It seemed to get in there sans chunks. I did have it well heated though.
 
motiv8er

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Good work men, keep us posted.
 
johnfaceman

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Ok guys. I am feeling and looking a bit leaner (especially upon just waking up). Diet is steady though appetite is rather high. Only time will tell.
 
jmh80

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I noticed a bump up in my appetite also - thought it was an anomaly. We'll see.

John - where are you applying?
I'm using biceps and forearms - and tri's/delt's as needed to absorb all of the Penetrate.

I'm probably going to bump the dose up to 400 mgs/day - to finish this in a month.

Oh - I added some DHEA to this - just for the hell of it. I've got a bunch of DHEA powder and since it's worthless orally figured what the hell - might as well dermal it. I think I got 5 grams or so in - that went in fine.
The adreno has been an issue - may need to heat it up more than I already have.
 
thebigt

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i just bought 20gms of this, will be watching carefully. trying to learn how much to add to penetrate-10gm seems to be what everyone is going for. at this ratio what results could i expect at 5 sprays 2xday?
 
johnfaceman

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i just bought 20gms of this, will be watching carefully. trying to learn how much to add to penetrate-10gm seems to be what everyone is going for. at this ratio what results could i expect at 5 sprays 2xday?
Still trying to find out for myself. I had an amazing chest day at the gym yesterday so I do think this is effective. Appetite is still up.
 
drksun

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i read PA saying you can actually spot reduce with a transdermal 11-oxo
 
neoborn

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/subbed. More more more details!!!! :thumbsup:
 
jmh80

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I had to stop the dermal. It irritated my biceps.

Not sure if it was the adreno or the Penetrate.
 
jonny21

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I had to stop the dermal. It irritated my biceps.

Not sure if it was the adreno or the Penetrate.
If you are looking for good application sites do not overlook your upper chest/clavicle as well Quads & calfs.

With Penetrate, I usually get a slight irritation that presents as "flushing" in my upper chest/clavicle but only when I apply there.
 
wojo

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did this dissolve easily? i have 10 grams bulk and a bottle of penetrate just sitting around..may try this
 
getswole

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Don't get all mad and stuff but can I ask you guys why mess with transdermal anything?
 
motiv8er

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Don't get all mad and stuff but can I ask you guys why mess with transdermal anything?
Your typical oral conversion rate is quite low. As long as the MW is permiable to the skin, you get so much more bang for your buck with a td. IE: 450 mgs orally a day needed for 3-ad, but I imagine quite a bit less for td. SO two cycles with a better conversion rate td, or one cycle oral. Pretty cleay to me.

Umm, growl?
 
getswole

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I guess what I'm asking is this cause you can't get ahold of real EQ or TEST?that you would mess with 3-ad and such analogs...or is there another reason,price?I just never did anything TD,never had a reason too...I was just curious,I mean I've even head of peeps making 1-cyp or whatever it is into injectable...now that makes sense to me.Everytime I've messed w/ any designers I've always been dissappointed.Maybe its just me ...seems like alot of you guys like this stuff
 
motiv8er

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I have plenty of g's of test laying around. :) For me this one is cool for three reasons. 1) legal. 2) I have cortisol issues 3) Superdrol changed my religion. So I am open to new Un-methylated ideas.
 
getswole

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Yeah I've ben meaning to cap some adrenosterone,see if it helps pre/post workout..I guess I'm just not much on rubbin' smelly crap all over me,just reminds me of back when everybody was converting cattle pellets into TD fina and stuff...Even then I never tried it.I can see how the adrenosterone is beneficial though...
 

shanebee

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Could the pH be off?, maybe that what's causing the irritation..
 

login211

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bulk 11-oxo will be available soon

any more for past users to add to this thread?

bump
 
MAxximal

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I wish to make a blend of 7-Oxo + 11-Oxo TD and i got 6-Oxo Transdermal already so I will destroy the world!

:sgrin:
 
MAxximal

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i thought 11 oxo and 7 oxo have similar effect on cortisol
yeap!

Andrenosterone as an 11b=HSD1 inhibitor,has the potential to lower your blood sugar and increase insulin sensitivity.


narraboth i can put 10g of Andrenosterone in 8oz. Penetrate?
 

narraboth

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yeap!

Andrenosterone as an 11b=HSD1 inhibitor,has the potential to lower your blood sugar and increase insulin sensitivity.


narraboth i can put 10g of Andrenosterone in 8oz. Penetrate?
Oh, sorry I didn't see your question.
well, you asked the wrong one, this is the first time I got this bulk powder and i have never used penetrate.

The only thing I found today is, it even dissolved less well than formenstane. Formestane is already a pain if you want to put it in anything with water, but at least it's quite soluble in DMSO and the DMSO solution can be added in 98% ethanol or oil without any precepitation.

I tried to mix 1 gram of 11 oxo into 5ml of DMSO today, it's not good. Even dilute that with 20 times pure alcohol, it's still not dissolved well. This dilution is already too big volume thus not practical in sense of 200mg/day dosage.

DHEA is much much easier to handle.
 

kvothe

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narrabooth, it is isoc, cant pm yet, try adding dmso, little by little to aid in the dissolving, anyone else with any other ideas please chime in, thanks.
 

narraboth

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narrabooth, it is isoc, cant pm yet, try adding dmso, little by little to aid in the dissolving, anyone else with any other ideas please chime in, thanks.
Lab log update:
1g 11-oxo can dissolve in 15ml DMSO, if you heat up to 70'c
and after it cools down, not many particles appear. So I got a room-temperture-stable 67mg/ml solution.
However it's pure DMSO and I can't apply it on my skin directly; I got to dilute it at least 3 times in 70% alcohol, which means in the end i need to put on 9ml of final solution to get 200mg of 11-oxo, and there would be 3ml DMSO total in that shot.
The feeling of applying such a big volume of DMSO liquid on skin is not so great. After alcohol vaporized all the rest sticky thing on your skin would be DMSO+water.

I will try to make a 100mg/ml solution in DMSO and see if I can put in pure alcohol when it's still hot (I don't think it will be stable in room temperture but lots of alcohol diluting might help).
 

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I did not realize that it was that hard to dissolve, sounds like form, the only time I used form myself I was gritty constantly. I have never used td 11-oxo, the only td's I used have been test base, form and tren pellets. the test and tren I used straight dmso if I remember right and that was harsh, I remember smoke coming off my skin and under black lights you could see where it was applied, I do not recommend, I was young and dumb.

To be honest, if this was me, I would scrap the transdermal idea and use it orally. Somewhere there has risen a myth of transdermal 11-oxo being great. On another forum PA stated he thought it was maybe twice as powerful mg for mg, so 200 mgs would yield around same gains as 400-500 mgs orally (somewhere people have begun believing this would equate to about a gram orally, or people think about spot fat loss, imho neither of which is true), for the hassle and the cost not a good return. Also, to high dose with transdermal you have limiting factor of obvious solubility and then application area, whereas you dont have those with the caps. I dont think $$ you would come out much ahead. For cort reduction PA said that some of the metablites of 11-oxo made in the liver are also strong cort reducers. To sum this up, orally is the best way to go. I have seen old logs on td 11-oxo, and never saw anything much different than oral and dosage used was anywhere from 100-300mgs daily. Bulk 11-oxo is great product, glad it is around, but think people will be disappointed at transdermal use, you may use less 11-oxo, but when you factor in cost of carriers, etc, oral is way to go.

I dont like transdermals except for those rare things where oral absorption is horrendously low (11-oxo does not really fit this), and/or pinning is too painful (1-test, bold prop/ace, even test base for some people). These are just my opinions, I could be wrong, as I have never used it transdermally.
 

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strangely, 11-oxo is even harder to dissolve than form in sense of using DMSO. my current maximum conc of 11-oxo in DMSO is about 70mg/ml, while formestane I can do about 150mg/ml. The only difference is 11-oxo tolerate water slightly better: the 11-oxo/DMSO solution can be diluted in 70% alcohol, while form/DMSO one can only do in ~96% alcohol.

pure DMSO is harsh because when pure DMSO mix with water, it generates heat, so pure DMSO can burn your skin. As long as there are some water in it (even 80% DMSO) it won't burn. DMSO will be absorbed and give you garlic odor in big dose, but there is no evidence suggesting it's harmful. For my own experience, 25% DMSO in pure alcohol won't burn me at all (unlike some commercial TD base), although i am not sure how effective it is. I won't know exactly anyway unless I can test my urine on mass spectrometry.

The only problem is DMSO increase skin permeability, so one should avoid using any chemical skin product after applying DMSO. Other than that, DMSO is a bit sticky-gross on skin when there is water.

For the bioavailablity of 11-oxo, I think it's a bit tricky. People say it works at the dose of 300mg or more. I have seen a paper (as I posted in supplement article sub-forum) analysing the urine of someone who took only one capsule (75mg). There is no quantity analysis in that paper though.
However, you just need to think the fact: it almost doesn't dissolve in water, you would know the bioavailability can't be high. Someone suggested taking oilly food at the same time, but my experiment shows that the solubility in food oil is not that high either. (at most 10mg/ml after I heat the mixture to frying temp)
We all know that our guts can't absorb something not dissolved. So those who orally took 11-oxo and saw effects could react to just low dose of 11-oxo; otherwise the company made another form of 11-oxo to increase the solubility?


I did not realize that it was that hard to dissolve, sounds like form, the only time I used form myself I was gritty constantly. I have never used td 11-oxo, the only td's I used have been test base, form and tren pellets. the test and tren I used straight dmso if I remember right and that was harsh, I remember smoke coming off my skin and under black lights you could see where it was applied, I do not recommend, I was young and dumb.

To be honest, if this was me, I would scrap the transdermal idea and use it orally. Somewhere there has risen a myth of transdermal 11-oxo being great. On another forum PA stated he thought it was maybe twice as powerful mg for mg, so 200 mgs would yield around same gains as 400-500 mgs orally (somewhere people have begun believing this would equate to about a gram orally, or people think about spot fat loss, imho neither of which is true), for the hassle and the cost not a good return. Also, to high dose with transdermal you have limiting factor of obvious solubility and then application area, whereas you dont have those with the caps. I dont think $$ you would come out much ahead. For cort reduction PA said that some of the metablites of 11-oxo made in the liver are also strong cort reducers. To sum this up, orally is the best way to go. I have seen old logs on td 11-oxo, and never saw anything much different than oral and dosage used was anywhere from 100-300mgs daily. Bulk 11-oxo is great product, glad it is around, but think people will be disappointed at transdermal use, you may use less 11-oxo, but when you factor in cost of carriers, etc, oral is way to go.

I dont like transdermals except for those rare things where oral absorption is horrendously low (11-oxo does not really fit this), and/or pinning is too painful (1-test, bold prop/ace, even test base for some people). These are just my opinions, I could be wrong, as I have never used it transdermally.
 
MAxximal

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Protoype 11-KT Spray (11-Ketosterone Topical)
 

kvothe

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[


11-keto is the target hormone of 11-oxo, so effects will be very similar as 11-oxo, reminiscent of how related the effects of 1-ad and 1-t are to eac other.

PA did theorize that the 11-kt spray would be about 3x's as potent mg for mg to oral 11-oxo. For what its worth, I have never heard PA talk about topical 11-oxo, I have only heard of him personally using it orally, although he did say that he uses topical 11-t.
 

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On oral vs. transdermal 11oxo, keep in mind that the pharmacokinetics will be different. Pat Arnold has guesstimated that 11oxo has a half-life of three hours -- so very short. Taking a single oral dose will spike up body levels, and then they will pretty quickly diminish. Transdermal will give you a slow release.

Does the slow release give you an added benefit? I'd just be guessing, but it might make the anti-catabolic part more effective. But if you are timing your dose around a workout, the pulse might be better.

I remember that PA said that transdermal 11oxo should work and might be a good idea, but that he had never personally got around to it.
 

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