BDC Needs Beta Testers for New Formula!

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  1. Originally posted by pjam76
    I don't know much about this guys company, but i do know, if you are TESTING a product, you don't charge people for it. it's called fair business practice, or did you miss that one in business 101.

    Its what most pharmacetical companies do.
    Last time I checked, BDC nutrition is not a pharmaceutical company. How many other supp companies test their products on a publicly open forum? And furthermore, one that allows all opinions (good or bad). This discussion should be a great example. Some, but not may. BTW, I thumbed through the index of my college business text and marketing books. No mention of any preferred methods for testing products.


    Originally posted by pjam76
    But the problem with all these supplement companies is that guys like you kiss these companies asses, whomever company you use. Its ridicuolous that there isn't ever an honest opinion.
    I have never purchased a BDC Nutrition product. Why, because I am a home brewer of supps. I support Chemo because he shares his methods with homebrewers such as myself. How may pharmaceutical companies would do the same?


    Originally posted by pjam76
    And what's up with you throwing out some other companies name and claiming they are worse then you. I don't care. When your defense is to claim some other company is worse then yours or the one you use, that makes the whole argument biased.
    First off, I am not in any way associated with BDC Nutrition. But allow me to rephrase. Show me a supplement company with a higher standard of doing business? How may supp companies share their formulas, test their products on open and unedited forums, and allow any competing company to market their own supps on their forum? Not many. Is your only beef the fact that he charged $40 bucks for a beta test? In the grand scheme of company ethics, how major of an infraction could that be?


    Originally posted by pjam76
    Tell me why aren't the supplemental companies products approved and tested by the FDA like the pharmacetical industry is?

    Explain that one to me ?
    Because the lobbyists for the pharmaceutical companies have yet to make it happen. But, they have the money and they will probably eventually prevail. But, then did the consumer really win?
    Last edited by Alpha Dog; 07-18-2003 at 12:54 PM.


  2. Again, I'm not one for having everything banned or overpriced because of the government and the FDA and other orginizations, but many of the supplemental companies are nothing more then big scams.


    Why should they be allowed to claim "patent pending" products, when in fact, they don't even have to really reveal whats in their products.


    As i said i don't know this company, but charging for beta-testing is somewhat ridiculous to me, even though its only 40 bucks.


    I've known people who beta-tested other supplemental products as well as pharmacetical products.

    Many of the pharmacetical companies actually pay the beta-testers to test their products.

    When your charging a consumer to test one of your products, how is that beneficial to anybody but the company?

    For all intensive purposes, maybe the product is the best supplement ever created, but he is testing it for a reason. And he's making money on just testing the product.

    maybe it works, maybe it has side-effects, but thats what testing is for. If he's making money off of testing, why should i trust him to be honest.

    And all this mumbo jumbo about you don't want it, don't buy it is bullcrap. He and many other companies know most bodybuilders and many young high schoolers and college kids, especially athletes will go to the extreme to find an edge.

    And if it's not steroids, and somebody claims, it won't show up in a althletic test, they will jump on the bandwagon. Maybe it's not smart of them, but thats the way it is.

    it seems he's just jumping on the bandwagon, just like everbody else.

    Just like most of these new Ephedra free products that are on the market, most of them are nothing more then caffine pills claiming they'll help you lose weight.

    The problem isn't that the governent is after the supplemental industry, the pharmacetical companies aren't gonna be coming after, the issue is,

    most supplemental companies practice bad ethics and sell nothing more then spruced up products that really do nothing for you.

    If most companies weren't all about greed, it would be different, but that's all it's about.

    And this guys company, being i've seen him post or at least somebody else post about beta-testing on numerous boards and sites, if he's so honest, why not say it in his original posting that he's charging for beta-testing.

    he's leading people here, they get the info, are despearte to get bigger, esp the younger generations, and they try to volunteer. (it's only 40 bucks)

    Yeah he claims he needs only 20 people, but why post on like 10 sites, if not more.

    Kind of fishy to me.

    is he the same guy who has the website legalsteroids.com, and the same guy who defended the name of his site, claiming it's not about that.

    Come on now, thats the biggest load of crap i ever heard in my life. You know what you were doing, stop lying about it.
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  3. Originally posted by pjam76
    You know what you were doing, stop lying about it.

    Yea, you got me pegged there pal. Enough said, I will no longer highjack Chemo's thread until he has a chance to respond.

  4. PJam, so whats your motivation? You sound like a mole working for a company to me. So far you have made 3 posts and all to discredit respectable buisness people. Consider yourself warned. Contribute, leave, or be banned for posting more "smear" posts. It's up to you.....

  5. "discredit respectable buisness people"


    Yeah that leaves you out then I guess.. What somebody does not kiss your ass and you ban them..

    Yeah that makes the whole supplemental industry honest now doesn't it.

    I haven't discredited anybody, all i was interested in were some answers. And so far nobody answers anything. Only thing people do is either kiss one companies ass, tear down another company, or tear down those that don't kiss the ass of the products they use.

    Give me a break. WHy has the supplemental industry gotten such a bad rap, it's not because of outsiders, it's because of unethical treatment of their own customers.

    A little honesty goes a long way.

    Hey go out and make money, thats what business is for, but don't go and try to scam people for that extra buck. That's what most supplemental companies are doing. they try to make it seem like "hey our products are just as good as steroids, without the side effects"

    and you know you've heard these lines before, and we all know it's not true. Get over yourself and get your nose out of this guys ass.

    Good day.
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  6. You obviously are extremely ignorant on this subject. If you were a member here for any amount of time you would understand exactly where I am coming from. I agree that most supplement companies are scum but BDC is not one of them. I can't think of a more straightforward and upstanding guy in the business. For Christ's sakes he lists his homebrew ingredients right in his signature of every post and recommends that people learn to homebrew. Take your garbage elsewhere. You are way out of line.

  7. WERE THE BEANS SPILLED?

    DEFINITELY in new brew
    -Octyl Salicylate
    -Dimethylformamide (DMFA)

    In brew, but not sure if it's one of the big 3
    -PS-20(not sure on this one)

  8. Originally posted by pjam76
    "discredit respectable buisness people"


    Yeah that leaves you out then I guess.. What somebody does not kiss your ass and you ban them..

    Yeah that makes the whole supplemental industry honest now doesn't it.

    I haven't discredited anybody, all i was interested in were some answers. And so far nobody answers anything. Only thing people do is either kiss one companies ass, tear down another company, or tear down those that don't kiss the ass of the products they use.

    Give me a break. WHy has the supplemental industry gotten such a bad rap, it's not because of outsiders, it's because of unethical treatment of their own customers.

    A little honesty goes a long way.

    Hey go out and make money, thats what business is for, but don't go and try to scam people for that extra buck. That's what most supplemental companies are doing. they try to make it seem like "hey our products are just as good as steroids, without the side effects"

    and you know you've heard these lines before, and we all know it's not true. Get over yourself and get your nose out of this guys ass.

    Good day.
    cough; cough; Avant spy; cough. What a dick. stfu...... bdc is one of the coolest guys I've ever encountered. He has shown people how to make there own products. How is that a rip off? You sound like a ****ing idiot. Iím surprised Iím even responding to this.

    Wait, wait, wait. I figured it out. Youíre BDCís old college roommate. He banged your girlfriend, ate your chips and borrowed your shirt. All without asking. Way to get your ultimate revenge professor chaos.
    Last edited by destro19; 07-18-2003 at 02:55 PM.

  9. pjam76
    I have to say for a freaking newbie on this board you are one total ass of a person.. I have know Chemo for a while and he is a standup guy and an honest businessman. Now why don't you take your little bit of garage you have tried to start and get your ass out of here and don't let the door to hit you in the ass on your way out.. and btw, where in the hell do you get your infromation?
  10. What the hell is going on


    Hey! That pjam guy actually has some "Karma"!...haha

    I think we should move this whole supplement scamming thing to another thread. Whatever Pjam needs to get off his chest about all the mean supplement companies could be brought somewhere else. Nuff said.

    Back to the new cool formula, I was trying to find the connection between this new BDC formula and the Avant formula that has been available for quite some time. As I said Avants PH lotion has the Octyl-Salicylate in it.

    Not that anything is wrong here but are we borrowing Avants formula? -Your Endo

  11. PJam, I will personal respond to your assertions. I am the Vice President of BDC Nutrition and part owner of this message board.

    1st, You should know that ALL beta testers have been supplied free bottles thus far. No one has paid a cent for it.

    2. Any beta testing where people are actually charged is done at cost or even below sometimes. Why are people charged? I'll use UCP-1 for an example. We ran initial beta testing with a small group of people to assess effectiveness through alterations of certain variables. These people were provided bottles free of charge. In the case where people had to pay, we had over 300 people use the product to test for effectiveness. Clearly we were not going to supply 300+ people with free bottles. Rather, we sold them at a very low price and received quality feedback from a good group of bros.

    3. Please don't spout off your mouth about our business practices and products without doing research, and clearly you haven't done any research because you said it yourself, "As i said i don't know this company". While I won't go into it in depth, nearly all members who make their way here are aware of BDC and what goes on here. The fact that you made your way to this board and then into the new formula section, with your only posts being bashes on something you are clearly ignorant about is a tad ironic. I will leave it at that.

    4. While we are at it, I want to address some of your other assertions made just for fun.

    "And when most supplement companies claim to hire or be the best Chemist and have these patent pending ingredients, I think some fair honest practices should be used."

    Reponse: Actually, the president of the company is a chemist and finalizing a PhD as well. In addition, we have yet to claim or file any patents for our formulas. In case you missed the idea of the board, we supply people with the information and sources to make their own homebrews. If they don't want to do it themselves, they can purchase our brew, which has the exact same ingredients.

    "For all intensive purposes, maybe the product is the best supplement ever created, but he is testing it for a reason. And he's making money on just testing the product. "

    Response: Once again, no one is making money, just not LOSING any...and often the bottles are supplied for free, so we end up losing a bit anyway.


    "He and many other companies know most bodybuilders and many young high schoolers and college kids, especially athletes will go to the extreme to find an edge. "

    We are very strict about this and have a wonderful group of moderators who help us try to keep PH products out of the hands of kids. In fact, the president of the company once, after finding out someone not of age had purchased a PH product, called the person's mother and informed her of the issue.

    "Just like most of these new Ephedra free products that are on the market, most of them are nothing more then caffine pills claiming they'll help you lose weight."

    Reponse: Yeah, for the most part you are right. It's not that they AREN'T effective for fat loss, rather, just that most aren't nearly as effective as a tradition ECA, like they claim to be. I recommend you try out San's TIGHT. Seems to be an excellent blend with great feedback thus far.

    "If it's really such a potent drug, or really almost a steroid, it wouldn't be legal now, would it."

    Actually, they are extremely potent through hundreds, if not thousands by now, of feedback from BDC, Avant, Ergo, Molecular, etc etc etc. As far as the "really almost a steroid" comment... go research something called 1-testosterone.


    "Tell me why aren't the supplemental companies products approved and tested by the FDA like the pharmacetical industry is?

    Response: Go read this.... it will answer alot of your questions:

    http://www.fda.gov/opacom/laws/dshea.html


    Questions? Feel free to respond.

    -Matt

  12. As far as what the second PE could be, I'd guess maybe Azone (1-dodecylazacycloheptan-2-one).

    Seen some good stuff about it in my pubmed searches on dmfa and other PEs

  13. Originally posted by Chemo
    I need twenty volunteers to test the new recipe.  The formula is COMPLETELY re-engineered for MAXIMUM effectiveness.  I have included two penetration enhancers that exceed or meet the increased absorption that is realized by accidental spills of other solvents into the bottle!  Unfortunately, they also meet or exceed the skin irritability as well.

    So, I need the volunteers to provide feedback with respect to the original recipe.  Areas of particular interest are skin irritation and effectiveness when compared to the original line of products.

    I will be offering 4 oz. versions of T-1 PRO (5 grams 1-test/2.5 grams 4-AD in 120 mL lotion) so that most can compare apples to apples.  Even though I would love to offer these free of charge I can't do that...since the new PE's are sold on a gram basis and are more expensive than the current market rate of gold!  The original T-1 PRO member price was ~$70 so this beta will be sold for $35 (half) + $5 for the new PE's = $40 (free shipping though)

    To the bros that want to take that step to a higher level of performance...take a step forward.  Post your reservation in this thread.

    I will need past experience with BDC lotions, current cycle plan, cycle goals, current stats, and diet.

    The beta testers will be briefed as to the new ingredients and recipe with a full explanation of what each does for the formula.  I will also include personal hints, tips, and tricks to increase effectiveness beyond that which is afforded by the new recipe.

    Chemo
    Hey Chemo...glad to meet you! Just curious though...Big Cat (BB.com) has his "Trenabol X" in a lotion base. I've tried it and thought it could have worked better if he had used a delivery medium similar to Avant Labs PH Gel (prop. glycol). If Cat is to have a good transdermal, he's got to change the recipe! But as you state...a lotion with penetration enhancers might just work. Transdermals REALLY tear up your skin! I usually peel for 2 to 3 weeks after a cycle...not to mention the redness and itching (GOD HELP ME!!!!!)
    JT out...

  14. Originally posted by chosen5
    As far as what the second PE could be, I'd guess maybe Azone (1-dodecylazacycloheptan-2-one).
    Azone is a good PE for hydrophillic actives. Not recommended for PH's.

  15. ahh thanks Jack, few posts back I posted least ONE of Chemo's new PEs:


    DMFA - dimethylformamide

    Found it at www.sciencelab.com for $20 per 500ml

  16. Also of note, here are a few studies/articles I found on pubmed/ebsco pertaining to DMFA and dermal delivery in general. You'll probably have to look them up at your local university's periodicals section though...




    Percutaneous absorption of drugs.

    Annual Review of Pharmacology and Toxicology Volume 29: Pages 55-69, 1989



    Percutaneous absorption: a personal view.

    Journal of investigative dermatology [J Invest Dermatol] 1974 Oct; 63 (4), pp. 305-8.



    Enhanced percutaneous penetration with 1-dodecylazacycloheptan-2-one.

    Archives of dermatology [Arch Dermatol] 1982 Jul; 118 (7), pp. 474-7.



    Dimethylacetamide (DMAC) and dimethylformamide (DMFA). Effect on percutaneous absorption.

    Archives of dermatology 1965 Nov; 92 (5), pp. 585-6.

  17. Im new to these boards but am interested in trying a BDC product. I have used avants one and one+ to pretty good results, so I am experienced with the topicals. I was wondering if you were still looking for a beta tester. Thanks

  18. Originally posted by pjam76
    How do you charge for a beta tester? That is about the biggest scam I ever heard of in my life.. If you want somebody to test your products, your new product, how can you charge them?


    That makes me think your company is nothing more then ENRON on drugs.



    What a scam, charging beta testers to try out, review and test your NEW PRODUCT........


    That's why supplemental companies get such a bad rap, because of companies like you. Most pharmaceutical companies have to go through tests and the FDA and then get approved.


    Supplements do not. Not always a bad thing, but when you have rip off scam artists like yourself, thats why people start to want supplemental companies banned.

    You lie to consumers and then laugh.

    Well I hope you go down, down hard.

    Charging for beta testers, what a scam.
    Sorry if someone already reamed this guy out later on down the thread, i didn't read through the whole thing. I feel like jumping through this guys computer screen and ripping out his throat. Read the first post you fuk, free of charge for beta testers. Hope someone banned this fuk!
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