Tren using Penetrate

[pinch yves]

Bear with me guys, as I am fairly new to transdermals. I am one of those old time pinners who sadly can't pin anymore because of an infection and it's ensuing affects. Anyway, by no means will I stop cycling.
Suppose I am looking to use tren transdermally. Can I use ace or eth, or must it be base? Also, assuming I get the tren powder what would I do then? How would I dose it if I were to use the NutraPlanet Penetrate product? Or would use guys recommend phlojel? I would prefer the Penetrate as it seems very simple to use.

 

[fatsuperman]

I recommend phlojel, but I don't have any experience with penetrate (so i can't really speak)

Basically the smaller the molecule you attempt to use transdermally the better it will work. So Tren base would be ideal.

Basically the only reason one would use an ester would be because you were using cattle pellets or you just had a butt load of powder left over from home brew.

Tren Ace will work though in a pinch.

From the research I have read, most of the esters are lost in the transdermal absorbtion process, so all you really get systematically is the base hormone anyway. Applications are 2x a day so the ester is pointless.

 

[pinch yves]

Do you dare to guess the average absorption rate?

 

[B5150]

There is much speculation on absorption rates. Personally using PhloJel, AvantLabs and T-Gel I would still seriously not estimate for more than 25%. I would rather anticipate less and absorb more than anticipate more and not. I have always dosed assumming the lesser absorption rate.

Penetrate and DermaBolics is the old AvantLabs formula without the carbomer, so it is the same as the trusted AvantLabs solution, less the thickening agent to make it a gel.

IMO, base would be best so as not to be dealing with 30% ester weight that may or may not be getting absorbed or lost in solution.

 

[pinch yves]

30% would be a safe estimate then, correct?

 

[fatsuperman]

The debate on absorbtion rate is an on going never ending one on this topic. Thirty percent is a common figure. You can work with it and adjust the your estimate with experience.

Everyone is different, skin thickness, subdermal fat, skin dryness, and application differences. All of these affect transdermal applications. Estimating dosages is the BIGGEST drawback to using them IMO.

With that being said, IMO (again) the BIGGEST reason people complain that transdermals don't work is because they over estimating of absorbtion. The second being poor application procedures.

 

[pinch yves]

I am wondering superman, how have your experiences been with transdermals?

 

[fatsuperman]

I would say postive, so far. I've done a two and I am planning a third.

The first one was on par with injectables, on the second I don't think I got the particles small enough in the powder so the absorbtion rate seemed lower, and there was some powder residue. I ended up having to increase dosages.

As I stated before predicting your absorbtion rate is the tricky aspect. Attention to detail on compounding, and application is the key to optimization of the transdermal cycle.

BTW, sorry for repeating this link but it is helpful for TD newbies.

Here is a podcast from "super human radio" concerning the use of transdermals, the person being interviewed is the doctor who invented phlo jel. It brings up the some interesting information about used of transdermals to facilatate drug absorbtion. I loaded it up on my website.

www.myfatspouse.com/shr.wma

 

[pinch yves]

Sorry for the endless questions. Let's say I have some tren base powder and the penetrate product. The main idea here is to mix the tren power with the penetrate and apply pumps, as it were, to the skin using a latex glove. I understand that. What I don't understand is, how throwing X grams of power into the penetrate will consistently yield X mgs of power each time I pump.

 

[B5150]

Volume of liquid solution
plus
Volume of powder into solution
equals total volume

------------------------------
Powder weight/volume
divided by
Total Volume
equals mg/ml

Dispense X ml's to achieve desired mg's

Oral syringe is accurate. Pumps are metered but I don't know the metered rate.

 

[thesinner]

Volume of liquid solution
plus
Volume of powder into solution
equals total volume

Though an often safe assumption, that's not always true.

 

[jonny21]

Though an often safe assumption, that's not always true.

explain please.

 

[B5150]

Though an often safe assumption, that's not always true.

Certainly. Yes it is a rough estimate of weight to volume, but it is a factor to be included when calculating actives dispensed mg/ml . In most cases a very reasonable variation from nominal and rather negligible when you consider all other aspects of precision in the matter. Close enough for the girls we date.

 

[thesinner]

explain please.

Quite simply volume of solution does not equal both components. It's sometimes more, but more often less, depending on your choice of solute and solvent.

Like I said, it is a generally safe assumption to make. I just feel it's important to realize that it's a rough estimate. If you try to extrapolate outwards to see how much you've got, you're gonna come up short every time.

For more accurate results, you can simply use a graduated cylinder so you can note the finished volume to dissolve a certain amount of base.

 

[jonny21]

For more accurate results, you can simply use a graduated cylinder so you can note the finished volume to dissolve a certain amount of base.

I thought that was what we all did already. I start with my base powder and add solvent as needed to make desired total volume.

Carriers like phlo-jel ultra can be weighed out by the gram for more accurate final concentrations. I believe that it is something like a 1.03:1 ml to gram ratio.

 

[thesinner]

I thought that was what we all did already. I start with my base powder and add solvent as needed to make desired total volume.

Carriers like phlo-jel ultra can be weighed out by the gram for more accurate final concentrations. I believe that it is something like a 1.03:1 ml to gram ratio.

From the above posts, I was under the impression that they were just going to dump the powder in the carrier and say {[bulk density]*[weight]}+[volume of carrier]= [final volume]. I'm sure we can both agree that this is not very accurate. That's why we need to add solvent to the base as we go for best results.

 

[pinch yves]

So if I am reading the posts correctly, the Penetrate won't suffice? I have heard from others that the Penetrate will yield 25-30% absorption.

 

[B5150]

Penetrate will work just fine.

This other stuff that we are talking is formulating a compounded formula.

You should try out penetrate first.

No more than 50mg/ml would yeild its best absorption. 12.5grams in a 240ml bottle will yield you 50mg/ml.

 

[pinch yves]

-final question -penetrate or t-gel?

 

[B5150]

Can you get T-Gel?

 

[pinch yves]

Yes.

 

[B5150]

Thats the preferred route IMO.

 

[Kristofer68SS]

is t-gel still for sale?