[skull]

I was under the impression that it was more effective to use tren base in my TD -- being that without the ester the tren can get through the skin easier but that would requier multiple dosages throughout the day---where as if you use tren ace once a day the tren ace with the ester would break off at different times thruoughout the day giving you a continuos dose ?

[Heat Miser]

The idea behind using Tren in a TD application is the ability to dose daily without the need to inject daily. Using Tren base is really the way to go. The method of TD in and of itself is a slow release/absorption process. Also, TD's are traditionally dosed twice daily anyway.

[fatsuperman]

The lower the molecular weight the better the absorbion

Tren Base is apx. 270

Tren Ace. is apx. 312


For reference Test base runs around 288

Tren Ace doesn't have too much problem getting through the skin.

From what I understand the esters have a hard time getting through the skin on transdermals, typically you end up absorbing just the hormone base, so I'm not entirely sure if you should dose Tren ace (fina) any less frequently than if you were doing tren base.

2x a day seems to be a general rule of thumb

[Heat Miser]

While your at it fatsuperman, what is the MW of bold base?

[skull]

I guess it depends on if we are in agreement if tren ace can actualy make it thru the skin then---because nobody injects tren base--- you want the ester to give a slow release--I heard the interview with the doc who invented pro gel and I think he said that a M weight of about 400 can get thru?in that case tren ace can get thru---so there wouldnt be that much difference from inject?once a day?

[skull]

Department of Dermatology, Academic Medical Center, University of
Amsterdam, The Netherlands.


Human skin has unique properties of which functioning as a physicochemical
barrier is one of the most apparent. The human integument is able to
resist the penetration of many molecules. However, especially smaller
molecules can surpass transcutaneously. They are able to go by the corneal
layer, which is thought to form the main deterrent. We argue that the
molecular weight (MW) of a compound must be under 500 Dalton to allow skin
absorption. Larger molecules cannot pass the corneal layer. Arguments for
this "500 Dalton rule" are; 1) virtually all common contact allergens are
under 500 Dalton, larger molecules are not known as contact sensitizers.
They cannot penetrate and thus cannot act as allergens in man; 2) the most
commonly used pharmacological agents applied in topical dermatotherapy are
all under 500 Dalton; 3) all known topical drugs used in transdermal
drug-delivery systems are under 500 Dalton. In addition, clinical
experience with topical agents such as cyclosporine, tacrolimus and
ascomycins gives further arguments for the reality of the 500 Dalton rule.
For pharmaceutical development purposes, it seems logical to restrict the
development of new innovative compounds to a MW of under 500 Dalton, when
topical dermatological therapy or percutaneous systemic therapy or
vaccination is the objective.


Publication Types:
Review
Review, tutorial


PMID: 10839713 [PubMed - indexed

[fatsuperman]

Blatent Cut and Paste Here

Androstanolone- 5a-ANDROSTAN-17b-OL-3-ONE
(SAME AS 5a-Dihydrotestosterone)
melting point= 177-182C
molecular weight= 290.40
rotation= +33 c=1 CHCL3

Boldenone- 1,4-ANDROSTADIEN-17B-OL-3-ONE
melting point= 167-172C
molecular weight= 286.40
rotation= +22 CHCL3

BOLDENONE UNDECLYNATE- 1,4-ANDROSTADIEN-17B-OL-3-ONE-UNDECYLENATE
melting point=
molecular weight=
rotation=

CLOMIFENE CITRATE-2-(p- (2-chloro-1,2-diphenylvinyl)phenoxy) triethylamine citrate (1:1)
melting point= 116.5C
molecular weight= 598.09

CLOSTEBOL- 4-ANDROSTEN-4-CHLORO-17b-OL-3-ONE
melting point= 187-188C
molecular weight= 322.89
rotation= +150 CHLF

DROSTANOLONE- 5a-ANDROSTAN-2a-METHYL-17b-OL-3-ONE
(SAME AS DROMOSTANOLONE)
melting point= 149-153C
molecular weight= 304.36
rotation= +32 MeOH

LETROZOLE-4,4'-(1H-1,2,4 -Triazol-1-ylmethylene) dibenzonitrile
melting point= 184-185C
molecular weight= 285.31

MESTEROLONE- 5a-ANDROSTAN-1a-METHYL-17b-OL-3-ONE
melting point= 202-206C
molecular weight= 304.36
rotation= =18 CHCL3

METHANDIONONE- 1,4-ANDROSTADIEN-17a-METHYL-17B-OL-3-ONE
(SAME AS METHYLANDROSTENOLONE)
melting point= 162-164C
molecular weight= 300.42
rotation= +0 CHCL3

METHENOLONE- 1,5a-ANDROSTEN-1-METHYL-17b-OL-3-ONE
melting point= 164-165C
molecular weight=
rotation= +58 CHLF

METHYL TESTOSTERONE
melting point= 162-167c
molecular weight= 302.46

NANDROLONE- 4-ESTREN-17b-OL-3-ONE
melting point= 122-125C
molecular weight= 274.38
rotation= +56 C=1 CHCL3

NANDROLONE ACETATE- 4-ESTREN-17b-OL-3-ONE 17-ACETATE
melting point= 89-93C
molecular weight= 316.41
rotation= +49 C=1 CHCL3

NANDROLONE BENZOATE- 4-ESTREN-17b-OL-3-ONE 17-BENZOATE
melting point= 170-175C
molecular weight= 378.49
rotation= +104 C=1 CHCL3

NANDROLONE DECANOATE- 4-ESTREN-17b-OL-3-ONE 17-DECANOATE
melting point= 30-35C
molecular weight= 428.63
rotation=

NANDROLONE PHENYLPROPIONATE- 4-ESTREN-17b-OL-3-ONE 17-PHENYLPROPIONATE
melting point= 92-96C
molecular weight= 406.54
rotation= +58 C=1 CHCL3

NANDROLONE PROPIONATE- 4-ESTREN-17b-OL-3-ONE 17-PROPIONATE
melting point= 55-60C
molecular weight= 330.45
rotation= +41 C=1 CHCL3

OXANDROLONE-
melting point= 235-238C

OXYMETHOLONE- 5a-ANDROSTAN-17a-METHYL-17b-OL-2-
HYDROXYMETHYLENE-3-ONE
melting point= 177-180C
molecular weight= 332.47
rotation= +38 ETOH

SPIRONOLACTONE- 4,17a-PREGNEN-21-CARBOXYLIC ACID-17b-OL-3-ONE-7a-THIOL 21-17 GAMMA LACTONE 7-ACETATE
(SAME AS ALDACTONE)
melting point= 207C
molecular weight= 416-.59
rotation=

STANOZOLOL- 5a-ANDROSTAN-17a-METHYL-17b-OL-3,
2c-PYRAZOLE
melting point prisms= 228-242C (235C)
melting point needles= 155C
molecular weight= 328.42
rotation= +36 CHCL3

TADALAFIL-
melting point= 298-300C
molecular weight= 389.41
roatation= [a]20D: +70 DEG to +73 DEG

TAMOXIFEN CITRATE- 2-[4-1,2-Diphenyl-1-Butenyl)
melting point= 143-146C
molecular weight= 563.65

TESTOSTERONE BASE- 4-ANDROSTEN-17b-OL-3-ONE
melting point= 154-155C
molecular weight= 288.4
rotation= +102 degrees C=1 CHCL3

TESTOSTERONE ACETATE- 4-ANDROSTEN-17b-OL-3-ONE 17-ACETATE
melting point=140-144C
molecular weight=330.45
rotation= +59 C=1 ACETONE

TESTOSTERONE BENZOATE- 4-ANDROSTEN-17b-OL-3-ONE 17-BENZOATE
melting point=191-196C
molecular weight=392.52
rotation= +155 C=1 CHCL3

TESTOSTERONE CYPIONATE- 4-ANDROSTEN-17b-OL-3-ONE 17-CYCLOPENTYLPROPIONATE
(SAME AS TESTOSTERONE CYCLOPENTYLPROPIONATE)
melting point=98-102C
molecular weight=412.59
rotation= +87 C=1 CHCL3

TESTOSTERONE ENANTHATE- 4-ANDROSTEN-17b-OL-3-ONE 17-ENANTHATE
(SAME AS TESTOSTERONE HEPTANOATE)
melting point=32-36C
molecular weight=400.61
rotation= +84 C=1 CHCL3

TESTOSETERONE DECANOATE- 4-ANDROSTEN-17b-OL-3-ONE 17-n-DECANOATE
melting point=47-49C
molecular weight=
rotation= +72 DIOXANE

TESTOSTERONE ISOBUTYRATE- 4-ANDROSTEN-17b-OL-3-ONE 17-ISOBUTYRATE
melting point=124-128C
molecular weight=358.50

TESTOSTERONE ISOCAPRONATE- 4-ANDROSTEN-17b-OL-3-ONE ISOCAPRONATE
melting point=53-55C
rotation= +86 CHLF

TESTOSTERONE VALERATE- 4-ANDROSTEN-17b-OL-3-ONE 17-VALERATE
(SAME AS TESTOSTERONE PENTANOATE)
melting point=106-109C
molecular weight=372.53
rotation= +92 C=1 CHCL3

TESTOSTERONE PHENYLPROPIONATE- 4-ANDROSTEN-17b-OL-3-ONE 3-PHENYLPROPIONATE
melting point=115-116C
rotation= +98 CHLF

TESTOSTERONE PROPIONATE- 4-ANDROSTEN-17b-OL-3-ONE 17-PROPIONATE
melting point=118-122C
molecular weight=344.50
rotation= +86 C=1 DIOXANE

TESTOSTERONE UNDECANOATE- 4-Androsten-17b-ol-3-one 17-undecanoate
melting point=
molecular weight=
rotation=

TRENBOLONE ACETATE-
melting point= 94-97C

TURINABOL- 4-ANDROSTEN-4-CHLORO-17b-OL-3-ONE 17-ACETATE
melting point= 225-230C
molecular weight= 364.89
rotation= =118 CHCL3

[fatsuperman]

I'm looking for some other examples I've read, but from what I gather results are pretty similar for other esters in transdermals, they don't get through the skin well, but the bases do. Basically I guess the ester gets stripped coming through the fatty layers of the skin.

Entrez PubMed

Yea, Tren ace makes it through the skin just fine, I have some personal experience, it will work. I can't say definately how much gets through % wise, but enough to get me coughing, and enough to put some meat on my bones.

You could probably get away with it once a day, but it wouldn't really hurt to do it 2x a day to smooth out the bumps

btw: if anyone else who is reading this thread wants to hear the interview with the inventor of phlo jel I have it on my website

myfatspouse.com/shr.wma

[fatsuperman]

A couple of melting points I left out


Trenbolone Base
Melting point>175C


Methandrostenolone (Metandienone, Dianabol, D-Bol)
molecular formula:C20H28O2
molecular weight: 300.44