homebrew intranasal

[drfly]

hey i was just reading through the product description of in-rage, and it says that it has an approximate delivery percentage of 75%. that is a freakin lot, especially when compared to an approximate absorbtion rate of 40% for our homebrew transdermals, thats nearly double. so i dont know if there is any effective way of making a homebrew intranasal spray using any pro-hormones, but if there is i would like to look into if u guys have any info. thanks

 

[Chemo]

There are a few drawbacks to homebrewing an intranasal.  First, it is EXTREMELY difficult to complex with a cyclodextrin in the kitchen and in good yield.  Second, the amount that may be delivered at one time is limited to 25 mg.  Also, this does not solve the problem of irritation from 1-test but is of value for 4-AD, nordiol, etc.

Chemo

 

[drfly]

oh i see, well thanks for the information BDC, oh by the way, any new info on how to get test from 4-ad yet?

 

[wardog]

I think a few were trying fina internasally on other boards. I for one, don't think I want to do a 6 week cycle that way.

 

[labrad]

I couldn't even imagine a 1-test intranasal. That would be way too painful. Unless of course you used PA's burn free version.

 

[dazed]

It's not too hard to do actually, check out my article in issue #9 in at www.mindandmuscle.net
Absorbtion is over 90% from what I have seen.

 

[Chemo]

Great post Dazed!

Why, though, are plain beta-cyclodextrins of little use? This is what I used to very poor yield.

Chemo

 

[dazed]

Plain bcd's are not very soluble compared to hpbcd's and can't solubilize steroids nearly as well. Getting the steroid solubilized(complexed) is the key to getting the drug to be delivered to the mucosa. The steroid partitions from the cd/steroid complex directly into the lipid layers of the mucosa.

 

[drfly]

hey dazed, thanks for the great article, one question though, how do u obtain some HPBCD? thanks

 

[dazed]

I got mine from kilosports, but they only sell it by the kilo as far as I know. Maybe someone could buy one and break it down or something for homebrewers.

 

[drfly]

oh ok, i didnt realize that HPBCD was readily available to purchase from any supplement places. thanks, and yeh i think that would be a great idea to have someone buy it and sell it in portions for homebrews.

 

[TMack40]

I dont think doing a whole cycle intranasaly is a very good idea. But i do think that it wouldnt hurt to get a few grams here and there during your cycle from it since the absorption is so great. Itd be good to test out and see how much you can tolerate. The more you can tolerate the more your going to end up absorbing in the end. Very interesting topic....

 

[1Fast400]

how do u obtain some HPBCD

Give me 10 days and I'll have some.

 

[Aneas]

This seems like an interesting method what are the downsides?

Would 25 mg/ml of fina irriate your nose?

Is there a limit to the number of times a day you can squirt thus limiting your mg per day?

Seems like a much better method than transdermal what am I missing?

 

[BrKonman]

Originally posted by Aneas
This seems like an interesting method what are the downsides?

Would 25 mg/ml of fina irriate your nose?

Is there a limit to the number of times a day you can squirt thus limiting your mg per day?

Seems like a much better method than transdermal what am I missing?

BDC made some comments in the 4-ad injectable thread about doing 4-ad through intrnasal means, however in the case of fina I would question if they apply. 25mg/ml fina would be thoroughly dissolved, and I'm sure anyone using nasal allergy sprays knows they do around 2 squirts per nostril, twice daily squirts. If gear/ph's could be applied in the same way, then 75 - 100 mg per day would most certainly be reasonable. Hope BDC can lend his thoughts on this one.

 

[Chemo]

Originally posted by BrKonman
BDC made some comments in the 4-ad injectable thread about doing 4-ad through intrnasal means, however in the case of fina I would question if they apply. 25mg/ml fina would be thoroughly dissolved, and I'm sure anyone using nasal allergy sprays knows they do around 2 squirts per nostril, twice daily squirts. If gear/ph's could be applied in the same way, then 75 - 100 mg per day would most certainly be reasonable. Hope BDC can lend his thoughts on this one.

IMO, intranasal is a great way of dosing.  So what are the real life drawbacks and how do they compare to transdermals?

• Intranasals are limited to 25 mg per dose.  After this there are diminished returns when dosing more.  This can be likened with transdermal optimum concentration of 50 mg/mL.  Above this there are diminished returns on absorption but I would rather err on the side of therapeutic dose and go a bit higher.  The same can be said of intranasals as well...optimum is 25 mg per dose but going a bit over that will certainly not DECREASE the effects
• Once dosed the intranasal will last only hours before the need to reapply.  This means several times daily would be needed to maintain levels.  I don't recommend this method of administration as a cycle base due to the inherent inconvenience.  Transdermals, on the other hand, need only twice daily applications to maintain steady levels.  There is also some inconvenience with application but is less of a sacrifice than the alternative.  IMO, intranasals would best be dosed as a pre-workout and not cycle base due to its sharp peak and quick drop.
• Since this is a field comparison let's not rule out season.  Not only is it bulking time again it is also the cold season.  I would hate to invest in a bulking cycle with an intranasal as a base and not be able to dose for a whole week due to the sniffles.  Once again, it should be used as a pre-workout and not as a cycle base.  If one were dead set on using an intranasal as a cycle base my recommendation would be in the Summer.
• Ooohh...absorption.  Intranasals have the highest degree of absorption than ANY OTHER method of administration (with the exception of pinning it).  Of course, this is under the best cicumstances.  This fact in and of itself makes intranasal a very likely candidate for best route award but still must answer to quick peaks and frequent doseages.
• Dazed presented a very good post with home brewing an intranasal.  The fact still remains that it is a new recipe that has not withstood the scrutiny of real world kitchen testing (yet).  He is an excellent chemist that had enough sense to use the correct cyclodextrin so his recipe will most likely have good yields and is easy for all.  Transdermal brewing is equally simple but has more overhead for ingredients, bottles, etc.  In this respect, homebrewing an intranasal takes the award for "cheapest to brew".

Chemo

 

[wardog]

I am thinking of trying this..

TNE in a preworkout nasal applicator..sounds promising