T-HEAT (Yohimbine homebrew) Summary and further discusion!

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    T-HEAT (Yohimbine homebrew) Summary and further discusion!


    I will be updating this soon. The other thread got a little to confusing. So i will summarize it here and we can keep the discusion going.. Please feel free to let us know your experiences with it also in here. Talk to ya...

    [EDIT: ADDED THE ARCHIVE PDF FILE OF THE ORIGINAL THREAD]
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by Chemo; 04-03-2003 at 05:47 PM.

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     You take 500g menthol USP disolve it in 750ml of ISO and you get 75% solution menthol.....

    OR disolve 66g of Menthol USP in 100ml of ISO to get 75% solution.
     This would take the place of the cornmint oil. menthol crytals are more redily avalibe and cheaper I think. And here is why....

    55% Aloe Gel WAS 48% aloe gel (100%)
    25% water
    8% menthol solution WAS 15% menthol(in alcohol)
    10% PG
    2% DMSO(Cause i like DMSO heheh )
    Y-hcl 3.5g 1 month supply

    ****************************** ****************************** ***
    I have found that the 15% menthol solution was a bit much. I have cut it down to 8% and added the 7% to the Aloe gel... Hope this does not screw anyone up.. The 15% won't hurt you but it was just too mentholly...


    ****************************** ****************************** *

     


    This recipe does mix very well and has a very gelly consistancy and absorbs very quickly. the smell of menthol goes away afetr about 10 mins but it clears your sinuses... Talk to ya...
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    Curt,
    I have a bad reaction to the ingestion of Yohimbine. Would I be ok using this? Does it ever make it to the bloodstream, or just react in the fat?
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    Has anyone tried this yet. And has anyone tried the UCP-1 from the bdc store. I know it's in it's beta stage right now I'm just wondering on how it's going.
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    Originally posted by dsade
    Curt,
    I have a bad reaction to the ingestion of Yohimbine. Would I be ok using this? Does it ever make it to the bloodstream, or just react in the fat?
    It is designed not to get into the bloodstream. If you are really woried get rid of the DMSO and add the 2% to the aloe gel... Should be fine... Talk to ya...
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    bro, i figured i'd move this over here to the cleaner thread...


    i did some lookin' up and came up with some resources and pricing...i was basing on what the minimum i had to buy to make a 240ml batch....i opted to show the lower pricing, not taking in account shipping or getting from one source if possible...some guys may have some ingredients already...here they are with links and price/qty:


    aloe gel .... $6.25/qt
    Isopropyl Alcohol - 99 percent.... $10.00/qt
    http://www.lemelange.com/oil_liquid_cream_wax_a_-_b.htm

    menthol crystals....$4.49/oz
    http://www.theeyeofnewt.com/store/ht...l_Crystals.asp

    propylene glycol.... $8.49/8oz
    http://www.theeyeofnewt.com/store/ht...ene_Glycol.asp

    DMSO .... $9.95/pt
    http://www.vetamerica.com/dmso997pur1p.html

    YOHIMBINE HCL .... $9.95/per 3g
    http://kilosports.com/productdesc.cf...OHIMBINE%20HCL

    hope this helps out some...i've ordered my goodies and will give it a try...

    al
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    OK...we have the ingredients down so now let me play devil's advocate for a minute.

    • Why was each ingredient chosen? What is the purpose of having it included?
    • Do we have references to support localized delivery versus systemic?
    • How does the recipe deliver locally and bypass the vascular plexus (mechanism of action)?

    After we answer these questions the work will be 90% done. Good luck gentlemen...and I look forward to working with each of you on this project.

    Chemo
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    I was getting to all that chemo. hehehehe. Actually i was trying not to have to write all that. I'm lazy... I will do it.. talk to ya...
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    topical vs transdermal delivery article


    here's an informative article, too long to post it so here's the link...it applies to what we are trying to do here with T-HEAT...



    al

    http://www.inetce.org/articles/pdf/1...01-008-H01.pdf

    Last edited by BigAl; 04-02-2003 at 08:17 PM.
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    link doesnt work...
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    thanks shadow......i just edited my post so it works now as well, don't know what went wrong, just recopied and pasted....oh well, thanks for the help....al
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    I guess when we pick the ingredients we must know why. This is because most people like to know why they are rubbing this stuff on and what it’s going to do… Knowing that we must start with knowing if Yom-hcl is hydrophilic or hydrophobic. Water loving or water hating…

    <>
    Hydrophilic
    Water loving. Compounds of this type are attracted to water. Normally they are either charged or have polar side groups that attract water to them.
    <>
    Knowing thins aspect of Yom-hcl we will chose ingredients that are water based or “skin wetting” to get the Yom-hcl through the SC into the fatty deposits. One thing we have to avoid mostly is getting the Yom-hcl into the blood stream. Yes Yom-hcl will do well in the e blood stream for fat loss but it will not be localized, as this is what we are trying to achieve with this product.
    Since the Yom-hcl is water loving and water passes through the SC VERY easy because the SC has allot of water contained in it, if we can get the Yom-hcl into a water based gel the Yom-hcl will get to where we want to deliver it.
    One other thing why we choose ingredients that we do is also because of price. We want the average Joe with some love handles or some hard to get off flab from their guts to be able to make this stuff…. Like me J

    Ingredient #1 Aloe Vera Gel(99%)      50%
    The Aloe-Vera gel consists of 96 % water. But the secret lies in its high portion of natural nutrients and vital substances. The nutritious ingredients of Aloe Vera can be divided into the following groups:
    Vitamins
    It is rich in most vitamins like Vitamin D, A (the antioxidant beta-carotene), C and E and even traces of B12, one of the very few plant sources of this vitamin.

    Enzymes
    Several of these biochemical catalysts aid digestion by breaking down fat and sugars when taken orally. The Aloe Vera contains Lipases and proteases which break down foods and aid digestion.
    It also contains bradykinase, which helps to reduce excessive inflammation and pain when applied to the skin.

    Minerals
    Aloe Vera contains more than 20 minerals, like Calcium, Sodium, Potassium, Manganese, Magnesium, Copper, Zinc, Chromium and the anti-oxidant Selenium.
    Even though minerals and trace elements are only needed in very small quantities, they are essential for the proper functioning of various enzyme systems in different metabolic pathways.

    Salicylic acid
    It is anti-inflammatory and anti-bacterial properties.

    Sugars
    Known as mucopolysaccharides, they enhance the immune system and help to detoxify. In topical preparations, the sugars are also the main moisturisers.

    Anthraquinones
    There are twelve of these Phenolic compounds which are found exclusive in the plant sap. In small quantities, they aid absorption from the gastro-intestinal tract and have anti-microbial and pain killing effects. The important ones are the painkillers Aloin and Emodin. They also are anti-bacterial and anti-viral.

    Lignin
    It gives Aloe Vera a singular penetrative effect so the other ingredients are absorbed into the skin.

    Saponins
    They have cleansing, and antiseptic properties, acting powerfully against bacteria, viruses, fungi and yeasts.

    Fatty Acids
    Cholesterol, Campesterol, ß.Sisosterol and Jupeol. These four plant steroids found in Aloe Vera are important anti-inflammatory agents.

    Amino acids
    The body needs 22 amino acids - our Aloe Vera gel provides 20 of these. More importantly, it provides 7 out of the 8 essential amino acids which the body itself cannot synthesise.
    Seeing all these thing isn the aloe gel and knowing it is 96% water makes it a very good ingredient to get the Yom-hcl through the SC…Also the GEL of the gel make this product have a good consistency thin enough to spray through a spray bottle or pumped through a pump bottle.

    Ingredient #2 Water 25%
    Since Yom-hcl is hydrophilic it likes water and water absorbs VERY good through the SC.

    Ingredient #3 Propylene Glycol 10%
    PG this stuff is oily. What it does is keeps the moisture from leaving the skin. The more moisture the easier it is for the Yom-hcl to penetrate...

    Ingredient #4 Menthol(75% solution) 15%

    We have gone through (above) to make the 75% solution. So we won’t go over that again. But here is why we use menthol in the solution.

    Menthol derivatives as potential skin penetration enhancers Studies showed that the permeation enhancing effect of l-menthol is significantly high with short lag time (12). The promoting activity of the ethyl ether derivative of Menthol is the greatest of all menthol derivatives. Studies showed that it is the most promising compound which has the greatest action and relatively low skin irritancy (13,14). A study has been made to elucidate the mechanism of skin permeation enhancement and it was concluded that the increase in skin flux, to eight times the base line, could be attributed to the effect of menthol on the skin barrier properties (15). The mechanism of permeation enhancement of menthol has been studied by some other investigators and they concluded that it could involve its distribution preferentially into the intercellular spaces of stratum corneum and the possible reversible disruption of the intercellular lipid domain. They suggested the use of menthol as effective penetration enhancer (16).
    As you can see menthol is a good penetrator. Making it like this also is very cheap. Which is good. Also the ISO used to make the menthol solution is good for dissolving the Yom-hcl into the solution.


    Taking into to account all of this info I do feel this recipe is good, cheap and effective.

    Now I am sure Chemo will go through a little more of the chemistry side of things (maybe) but that’s not my forte… Give me some electronics. Now were talking. hehehe J Have fun with it…. Talk to ya…
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    Nice post curt!
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    kudos curt!
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    How does camphor compare to menthol in penetration effectiveness? I notice a lot of the "soothing balms" designed to penetrate into the muscle contains Camphor as well as (but more than) menthol..
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    On the menthol I have 60% ISO is that good enough to get it to dissolve?
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    I remember Sammy Jankis...Memento, great movie.
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    No you will have to use 99% for the formula to be correct. Sorry. Talk to ya...

    I have not looked into camphor. But from a financial standpoint I don't think we can get it cheaper thatn this menthol mix... Talk to ya

    Look into it and see.... And let us know..
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    Not sure of the overall effectiveness of the camphor as a penetration enhancer as compared to Menthol, but they have synthetic camphor at the drugstore here (pure, 2 x 2 x 1/2 inch solid) for $2.

    Also, have you looked into Urea as a possible benefit to this formula?

    http://www.tu-bs.de/institute/pharmt...lorenz0204.pdf

    www.fleshandbones.com/readingroom/pdf/279.pdf

    These two (the first sucks, but gets the point across. The second is a pain in the ass, but at the bottom of "page 521" it talks about penetration enhancers and seems to regard Urea quite highly) are what I stumbled across researching Camphor.
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    Looks like camphor is more a a diuretic from what I can see. Might be good to go along with the water retention on yom... Talk to ya
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    Originally posted by curt2go
    &nbsp;You take 500g menthol USP disolve it in 750ml of ISO and you get 75% solution menthol.....

    OR disolve 66g of Menthol USP in 100ml of ISO to get 75% solution.
    &nbsp;This would take the place of the cornmint oil. menthol crytals are more redily avalibe and cheaper I think. And here is why....

    48% aloe gel (100%)
    25% water
    15% menthol(in alcohol)
    10% PG
    2% DMSO(Cause i like DMSO heheh )
    Y-hcl 3.5g&nbsp;1 month supply



    This recipe does mix very well and has a very gelly consistancy and absorbs very quickly. the smell of menthol goes away afetr about 10 mins but it clears your sinuses... Talk to ya...
    Wouldn't 66g in 100ml be 66% ?
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    Originally posted by Kitchen Chemist


    Wouldn't 66g in 100ml be 66% ?
    exactly the same thing I've been thinking about...heh
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    Nevermind i figured it out. 500g in 750ml is equal to 66%.
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    bump the total % of menthol down
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    I'm confused. What'd you figure out Kitchen Chemist? 500g in 750mL is 66% solution and the recipe calls for 75% solution.
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    You bros are making it more hard than it should be.

    Why not just say, "Throw 10 grams of menthol crystals in the bottle"???

    I can hash it out for everyone how to figure a mass/mass, volume/volume, or even a mass/volume percentage but the easier path for everyone is to distill it down to a simpler form.
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    The reason you can't just throw it in is because the menthol does not disolve in water. I found you had to make the ISO menthol solution first...

    PS... Hey mike we were already thinking that. Its a little too mentholly...
    I wanted to see a little feedback first though... By the way why do you think we should back down the menthol.. Are you brewing some of this up yourself. Cause thats the only way you would know!!!! Talk to ya
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    Cause thats the only way you would know

    Understanding transdermal delivery more than the average bear helps too
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    Originally posted by 1Fast400



    Understanding transdermal delivery more than the average bear helps too
    Why do you think its too much? Remember the menthol solution is a 75% solution so with 15% added is actually only 11.25% of menthol(100%) ..The only standpoint I see for taking it down would be the smell and maybe the cost. Caus the menthol is the most expensive part...  Talk to ya

     
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    Does anyone know what the average dosage is of aminophylline for diuretic purposes? I've been searching for this info for a while and had no luck. I can find dosage for asthmatic people, but probably WAYYY too much for this purpose...

    WYD
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    well, I just thought I'd point out, to any who want to do this, that our friends at www.lemelange.com have added menthol crystals to their website, and at $25/lb, it's an awesome deal, as compared to $61.49/lb at www.theeyeofnewt.com
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    Yeah lemelange has a good price for you U.S. bros, i'm gonna get some from curt for now but i'd order from them next time!
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    Chemo works pretty closely with Lemelange to make sure they have everything we need. Talk to ya
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    No responses on the aminophylline dosage?
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    Where di you ask? Talk to ya
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    last post, page 1

    Wyd

    TALK TO YA!!
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    Bastard... I RECON your last post was suposed to be funny ... TTY

    Now thats funny.. hehehe
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    Did I spell that right Chemo? Talk to ya
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    Actually, its reckon...get it right...

    TALK TO YA(insert 3 periods here)
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    Damn.. hehehe TTY.
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