- 11-16-2005, 03:33 AM
- 11-16-2005, 03:50 AM
Originally Posted by davin
Donate for PM's
- 11-16-2005, 04:21 AM
pardon my ignorant. but where do i start. Is there a thread in this forum that has instruction on it?
See I've seen several threads that showed how to make the injection of testosterone enanthate or cypionate 250mg/ml within this forum and else where.
But i haven't been able to find the one that shows detailed instruction on making testogel.
11-16-2005, 05:03 AM
At the top menu bar, you find something that says search... and use Test Base, and you'll find something on test base transdermals easy.. .there a quite a few posts about it.
11-17-2005, 02:14 AM
11-17-2005, 07:08 AM
It's not really any different then making any transdermal mix. Just search for instructions on how to make any dermal and there ya go. The only difference is I would really get the Test Base into a fine powder.
11-17-2005, 01:21 PM
This method worked for me using T-Gel for Test, 1-Test, & 3-alpha
1) Put 2-4 grams of powder into the gel
2) Shake the bottle viciously for 1 minute
3) Place the bottle in hot water for 2 minutes
4) Shake viciously again
Repeat until you have put 8-10 grams in the bottle, I do 8 grams myself and this yields 66.67 mg per ml.
11-17-2005, 09:56 PM
11-21-2005, 01:00 PM
11-21-2005, 03:30 PM
11-21-2005, 03:43 PM
what happens when you click it? Has anyone else had a problem with it? Please let me know. It seems to work OK from my end. You can also get it by just going to www.phlojel.us and look for the link at the top of the page.Originally Posted by milwood
11-21-2005, 11:00 PM
Wonderful link with detailed instruction.
One question, the instruction is based on a 60ml syring.
If i want to mix the whole 100mg of phlojel
instead of just 60ml i should be able to do it right?
11-22-2005, 01:43 PM
i used 60ML since that's a popular syringe size. they also make 100Ml syringes. You would simply increase the amounts accordinglyOriginally Posted by davin
11-23-2005, 09:41 PM
to anyone: how many times should i be applying the gel per day?
Can I apply it once a day?
another question: i came across a website that sells "powergel" it seems to be similiar to tgel but in an 8oz bottle.
Anyone have any experience with that?
Last question: how many grams are in a teaspoon?
11-24-2005, 01:00 AM
11-24-2005, 09:34 AM
Powergel? I know there's a Powergel that is an energy supplement by the makers of Power Bar.Originally Posted by davin
11-25-2005, 05:08 AM
that's where i found it.
but i think i should stick with either tgel or phlojel since since everyone seems to be familiar with them.
11-25-2005, 08:37 AM
just be aware that any topical vehicle that is predominantly alcohol will dry the skin and become less effective with use. IMHO I would absolutely rotate application sites with this type of a vehicle. If you see your skin getting shiney or wax-paper-like, move to another application site for a while.Originally Posted by davin
11-25-2005, 12:52 PM
11-25-2005, 11:19 PM
I will be adding pics in the next couple weeks.... I'll post once it's done.Originally Posted by Iron Warrior
11-27-2005, 01:49 AM
12-03-2005, 10:29 PM
Anyone ever try Finaderm....
At this site there was a product called Finaderm. According to its makers it has an 80% uptake with supplements less than 400 molecular weight. I find this hard to believe with a transdermal. Was just wondering if anyone knows anything about this delivery system.
Yo! triceptor I just odered some PHlojel and can't wait for it to arrive. Thank for all the info about the product. Looking forward to mixing up a batch of some fina REAL soon!!!!!
12-04-2005, 07:57 AM
there are some flawed assumptions in their writeup of the product. The first barier to the skin is the startum corneum - much like the scales on a reptile, this layer is a series of tight fitting "tile-like" cells that create a barrier against pollutants to enter the body through the skin while allowing water (not sweat) to escape. It is the displacement of this water in the dermis that allows the transdermal process to occur. Water occupying the skin is released to allow the drug to saturate the dermis. This is why it is critical to stay hydrated when using transdermals. As for sweat defeating the transdermal process, it is a potential issue, however, not they way they describe it. Sweat glands are burried in the dermis and have outlets the tunnel up to the surface of the skin (pores). The drugs delivered by a transdermal can be thought of to surround these tunnels. Sweat would effectively come up and over the skin. If any drug was on the outer surface of the skin, it could be washed away (rubbed off by clothing) or the vehicle that remained on the outer skin could be dilluted and thus its effectiveness compromised. This is not a problem if you allow the transdermal to remain on the skin for aproximately 2 hours prior to sweating.
If the method of reducing the production of sweat was to block the pores, this same component may also block the delivery of the drug. If the method of reducing the production of sweat was to shut down the sebacious glands, this could have other consequences. If they are speaking of locking in the moisture of the skin with their enhanced delivery method, this may have a similar effect on the drug trying to get in by locking it out.
The transdermal process depends on normal functioning skin.
What I can tell you is this - PhloJel Ultra is the most advanced transdermal vehicle available to compounding pharmacist. It does not contain any Pluronic as this was the cause of skin irritation with many PLO gels. It has penetration enhancers not found in any other transdermal vehicle. It does not dry the skin (which will reduce the delivery of the drug), but instead has excellent cosmetic qualities which keep the skin moist.
Also, PhloJel Ultra has several peer reviewed studies delivering NSAID's and the studies used cadaver skin and not synthetic so I can't be sure what effect this would have on the delivery results. I can tell you that cadaver skin yields real world results.
12-04-2005, 11:36 AM
12-04-2005, 12:08 PM
using just PhloJel Ultra and no other "homebrew" penetration enhancers.... between 40% and 60% real-world. i personally run cycles based on an estimated 50% absorption - I have received feedback from those who have emiled me and told me that they have similar experience based on comparisons to injected cycles...Originally Posted by Alexander
12-04-2005, 12:42 PM
Thank you. I use about 8% DMSO and 3% d-lim, with those enhancers I'll figure 50% absorption. Are there any other enhancers that you use nowadays.
12-04-2005, 04:28 PM
i personally wouldn't use DMSO for a couple reasons... first and foremost it irritates the skin and that can negatively effect penetration over time of use. Second, it makes you smell. Funny thing is if you ask someone who uses DMSO if it makes them stink they will tell you NO. If you ask the person standing next to them they will answer YES.Originally Posted by Alexander
If you want to see a ~15% increase in delivery.. rotate your applciation sites. Day 1: AM - upper abdomen, PM - shoulders, Day 2: AM - inner upper arms, PM - Upper chest / clavicle, Day 3: - AM Shoulders, PM - Quads...etc.... you get the idea. Don't use the same application site twice in one day. That will have as great an effect as adding enhancers and doesn't cost a penny more.
12-04-2005, 05:08 PM
Oh, ok thanks for the info. I thought it was recommended to use DMSO to create a paste with the powder before adding the phlogel. Would you recommend grain alcohol to make the paste? And lastly is the d-lim ok to add and at what %? Thanks for all the help.
12-04-2005, 08:35 PM
if you are compounding a 10% to 12.5% concentration you should not need a solvent as long as the powder is reduced to a fine powder. Here is the guidelines for adding penetration enhancers I have posted at other threads when asked...Originally Posted by Alexander
If you want to increase the amount of drug penetrating the skin (the epidermis) at a given concentration in the base then incorporating an additional penetration enhancer in the base might accomplish this. Common types of penetration enhancers in this context are menthol (1-3%), propylene glycol (5-10%), DMSO (dimethylsulfoxide, 5-15%) and d-limonene (1-3%). By their very nature they a tendency to disrupt the structure of the skin as well as the delivery system, PHLOJEL Ultra. Hence, products containing these are thin, more like a lotion but useable and effective. Menthol is a crystalline substance that requires considerable particle size reduction (levigation) in order to incorporate it and it has a strong odor and cooling sensation on the skin. DMSO is a strong penetration enhancer but is nonspecific with respect to what penetrates the skin (formulation ingredients also penetrate the skin significantly). Propylene glycol simply disrupts the water structure of skin allowing penetration through pores in the skin. D-limonene has been widely studied in Japan and has been shown to possess signifcant penetration power for a number of drugs applied from simple bases. It's related to menthol but doesn't have the disadvantages of menthol.
Benzyl alcohol is almost strictly used in liquid formulations as a preservative (up to 2%) although it has been used as a solvent (5% and above) in some situations. I don't have any information about its incorporation in PHLOJEL Ultra but I would expect it to behave like any other solvent and be nonspecific with regards to what penetrates the skin. It would not be a solvent of choice in these situations. I hope this helps. / triceptor
12-04-2005, 09:34 PM
Triceptor you seem to know your ****. Thanks for all the info it's greatly appreciated by us less scientific folk!
12-30-2005, 08:23 PM
Triceptor, I read the tutorial. For ease of use I would like to make 30ml of test base @ 150mg/ml . Based on your numbers and accounting for loss this is what I came up with: 4.95g Test base & 27.75g Phlojel.Originally Posted by triceptor
I also have D-limonene available. Should I use 1ml of D-limonene to create a paste and drop the phlojel to 26.75g or do you think 150mg/ml will work without using the D-limonene to create a paste first?
I am only running the TD Test for 21 days. Actually now that I see this in print it might just be easier to make it 100mg/ml and use 1.5ml/day
Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for life. Lao Tse 6th century BC
01-20-2006, 01:12 PM
hmm seems much easier to use T-gel all I would have to do is grind the powder with a mortar and pestle and add it to the T-Gel and shake vigorously. Phlojel says 40% to 60% absorbancy I don't see any claims on T-gel absorbancy. I have been playing with the idea of a 1-Test/Test base transdermal. Haven't decided on ratio's yet. My thinking is I would get a much better version of Pro-gel.
01-20-2006, 02:27 PM
T-gel is an alcohol based product.. correct? PhloJel is a lecithin based product. Of the two, PhloJel will have better cosmetic qualities.. dries with no residue and keeps the skin moist and supple. Also, when considering a combo transdermal there is always the question of concentration. PhloJel Ultra has shown the ability to incorporate 150mg/ml easily once the powder is triturated.Originally Posted by DreamWeaver
01-20-2006, 03:40 PM
That's a good point abut concentration. T-gel concentration is 100 and under. Yah I think I can probably handle the extra prep effort.
01-20-2006, 06:46 PM
do you happen to know how long test base can be mixed with t-gel or phlo ultra before it goes bad?
01-24-2006, 01:12 PM
04-29-2006, 10:48 AM
Lots of transdermal questions lately, just bumping this thread. There is a plethora of good advice in this thread to anyone starting their transdermal experience. Triceptor has helped me out so much, the guy is a beacon of knowledge when it comes to transdermals!
05-17-2006, 10:02 AM
30% to 40% on average. Based upon some skin preperation such as showering prior to application and using an luffa to rough up the skin of the application site, having well hyrdated skin, and rotating application sites I believe that 50% to 60% is very possible.Originally Posted by Alexander
One study I read several years ago showed that rotating application sites alone can increase drug delivery by up to 15%.
A more recent interview that I hosted on Super Human Radio with Dr. Jim Rogers also revealed the importance of hydrated skin in drug delivery. This is especially important to those living in places like Nevada and Arizona.
You can hear the interview by using this link -
Windows Media Player
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