Gyno Gel Homebrew: Is it possible?

  1. Question Gyno Gel Homebrew: Is it possible?


    I have heard about synthetic DHT gel named Andractim 2.5% Gel. It's been around for years, but some study lately showed it may reduce severity of Gynecomastia, aka Bitch Tits, in addition to its original use in hormon replacement therapy.

    Info
    http://www.thebody.com/catie/andractim.html
    Source
    http://www.farmamondo.com/vista.cfm?ID=161&LI=e
    http://www.secure-sales.org.uk/sexua...osterone.shtml

    Andractim Gel is not readily available in the USA, but we may order it from online sources, with or without prescription.

    The active ingredient is a synthetic DHT, namely Androstanolon. Is there any pro-hormon or pro-steroid that converts to DHT or androstanolon? If we can make a homebrew version of it, we have Gyno Gel!! What would you name it? T-G(T-Gyno), or T-D(T-DHT)?

    I am not a specialist of PS, PH or ASS, so I would be sorry if it doesn't make any sense.


  2. Originally posted by Big Masa
    I have heard about synthetic DHT gel named Andractim 2.5% Gel. It's been around for years, but some study lately showed it may reduce severity of Gynecomastia, aka Bitch Tits, in addition to its original use in hormon replacement therapy.

    Info
    http://www.thebody.com/catie/andractim.html
    Source
    http://www.farmamondo.com/vista.cfm?ID=161&LI=e
    http://www.secure-sales.org.uk/sexua...osterone.shtml

    Andractim Gel is not readily available in the USA, but we may order it from online sources, with or without prescription.

    The active ingredient is a synthetic DHT, namely Androstanolon. Is there any pro-hormon or pro-steroid that converts to DHT or androstanolon? If we can make a homebrew version of it, we have Gyno Gel!! What would you name it? T-G(T-Gyno), or T-D(T-DHT)?

    I am not a specialist of PS, PH or ASS, so I would be sorry if it doesn't make any sense.
    I believe 5aa converts directly into DHT.

  3. Heh, In-Rage?
    1-test converts (though through an unknown mechanism) to some extent into DHT. That's what's responsible for the hairloss.
    •   
       


  4. There are references as well that show that DHT applied in areas with high prolactin can reduce gyno. Here is one:

    Benveniste O, Simon A and Herson S. Successful percutaneous dihydrotestosterone treatment of gynecomastia occurring during highly active antiretroviral therapy: four cases and a review of the literature. Clinical Infectious Diseases 2001;33:891-893.

    But, 5-aa needs to be converted so would it convert into dht as soon as it hits gets into the blood?

  5. Originally posted by Sean
    Heh, In-Rage?
    1-test converts (though through an unknown mechanism) to some extent into DHT. That's what's responsible for the hairloss.
    Yes but 5aa would probabbly be a better choice since its target hormone is DHT, where as 1-test would only convert into DHT in small amounts.

  6. I agree that 5aa may be the better choice, since its target hormone is DHT.

    5aa needs to get into the blood stream to be converted to DHT, but here is a problem: once getting in blood stream, it doesn't work directly on nipples or breasts.

    To combat against Gyno, do we need to use a straight DHT, not its precursor or pro-hormone? This could be a problem for homebrewers, because I think DHT is illigal without a prescription. Is there any cheap and easy source for DHT? As far as I know, no cattle growth implants contains DHT.
  7. I have Andractim


    I have six tubes of Andractim. I'm not currently using them because I have been having some hair-loss and I don't want to aggravate it futher. Andractim does not have some fancy ingredient that localy delivers the DHT right to your tit. What I mean is it does not just deliver locally and it has systemic effects. If you don't suffer from hair-loss this really is not much of a problem. I have asked Par Douche several times if his Lipo-Gel would help deliver the Andracim localy and he won't give me an answer. Here is a cut and paste my post from his board: *** "I had been using Andractim for gyno treatment at the recomended dose of 5 grams a day. After using it for about four or five days, one monrning after washing my hair, I found a lot more hair in the bath tub than I normally do. I sort of speculated that is was due to increased DHT levels. This was the only time though that I had more than normal loss, but I still stopped taking it after two weeks. I want to get some Tamoxifen and an aromatase inhibitor to run w/ the Andractim next time. I have six tubes of Andractim. Also I have read that a few have had very good results using Vitex to reduce nipple puffyness. I was thinking of thowing in Bromo or Deprenyl with my gyno treatment stack to lower prolactin. If this does not work in reducing the size of my lumps, then I will know that surgery Is my only option. I don't believe that Andractim has anything special to use in delivery of the androstanolone. I mean I want to get a local effect w/ very little systemic effect for the obvious reasons of DHT's nasty side effects. Now Would it help to mix the Andractim W/ the Lipo-Gel or not?

    ut/paste my post from the Avant Board:

  8. Correct me if I am wrong. You don't really need Tamoxifen (Nolvadex) for DHT medication.

    What Tamoxifen does is binding to estrogen recepters so that real Estrogen has less effect. DHT doesn't readily convert to Estrogen, if my memory serves me right.

    The fact that you experienced unusual hairloss means that DHT in the gel got absorbed into the blood stream and thus impacted your hair. We need a base gel that lets DHT work only locally.

  9. Anybody here ever heard of Viritase by Molecular Nutrition?...

    5-aa while in the blood coverts into DHT, yes.

    Currently there are 2 versions of 5-AA on the market:

    the 3 beta reductase enzyme version (9% DHT conversion) Viritase
    and the 3 alpha reductase enzyme version (43% DHT conversion) 3-Alpha

    both products made my Molecular Nutrition.

    DHT competes for the same receptors as Estrogen (i.e. receptors in the male breast tissue)

    so the DHT occupies the E receptors in the breast tissue and it is similar to Proviron (1-methyl-DHT, I think) as a steroidal anti estrogen.

    hope this clears of the minor confusion.


    LG.
    Read This Book!!: Anabolic Steroids and the Athlete by William N. Taylor M.D.

  10. The only thing I know about Viratase is that Wardog said he used with his 1,200mg a day 4AD cutting cycle and it did a nice job of keeping water retention down.

    Now the 3-alpha might be interesting to use as a transdermal to get more bang for your buck on conversion in the body.

  11. Originally posted by SteveDFW

    Now the 3-alpha might be interesting to use as a transdermal to get more bang for your buck on conversion in the body.

    the thing is though that I havn't been able to find a bulk powder distributor of the 3 alpha stuff....


    LG.
    Read This Book!!: Anabolic Steroids and the Athlete by William N. Taylor M.D.

  12. Originally posted by Big Masa
    Correct me if I am wrong. You don't really need Tamoxifen (Nolvadex) for DHT medication.

    What Tamoxifen does is binding to estrogen recepters so that real Estrogen has less effect. DHT doesn't readily convert to Estrogen, if my memory serves me right.

    The fact that you experienced unusual hairloss means that DHT in the gel got absorbed into the blood stream and thus impacted your hair. We need a base gel that lets DHT work only locally.
    Did you not read all of my post? I am using Andractim for Gyno treatment. I know what tamoxifen does. I'm going to include it in the treatment of my gyno, it has nothing to do w/ the hair-loss issue. Yes I want a "local effect" for the Andractim, DUH, that was the whole point of my question to Par. Sorry I'm a little crankie today.

  13. How about just plain transdermal yohimbe instead? Many people use it to combat gyno, although it can cause some water retention.

  14. Originally posted by DevilSmack
    Did you not read all of my post? I am using Andractim for Gyno treatment. I know what tamoxifen does. I'm going to include it in the treatment of my gyno, it has nothing to do w/ the hair-loss issue. Yes I want a "local effect" for the Andractim, DUH, that was the whole point of my question to Par. Sorry I'm a little crankie today.
    I am sorry that I was mistaken. Tamoxifen as a gyno treatment...that's what you meant.

    However, I understood your point of the question to Per Deus. I also want to hear Per's opinion.

    I apologize again for making such a confusion.

  15. Originally posted by Big Masa


    I am sorry that I was mistaken. Tamoxifen as a gyno treatment...that's what you meant.

    However, I understood your point of the question to Per Deus. I also want to hear Per's opinion.

    I apologize again for making such a confusion.
    No problem. Sorry if I sounded like a dick.

  16. Originally posted by Sean
    How about just plain transdermal yohimbe instead? Many people use it to combat gyno, although it can cause some water retention.
    I tried it. It didn't work. I have hard lumps and most likely surgery is the only thing that is going to get rid of them. However if you guys want you could try dissolving some 5-alpha-androstane-diol or dione in some LipoDerm-Y. This in my opinion should work just as well as Andractim.

  17. None of these topical dht treatments are not supposed to be as good at treating gyno as good old arimidex. I don't have the references handy but I know I've read that.

  18. You are Dazed from Mind and Muscle, right? I'm glad you joined the thread. I tried using Arimidex for treament of my gyno. I used up to a whole 1mg tab a day. After a few weeks their was not even a slight reduction of the tumors. I even used Nolvadex for up to three months with no luck. I would like to try Aromasin, if I knew where to get it at a resonable price. Aromasin, Nolvadex, bromocriptine, and Andractim would be a nice stack for treament, hitting gyno from every possible angle. What do you think?

  19. Thats me...If I remember correctly the andactrim was only effective in about 50% of those who used it, and when I say effective I mean that there was a reduction in gyno size, not a "cure".
    At 1mg of arimidex a day, you should have had almost no estrogen in your system. Something like aromasin is a different kind of aromatase inhibitor(steroidal), so it may have different effects, possibly better for gyno. The andactrim is also a steroidal aromatase inhibitor, but a weaker one, so I would not stack that. I'm not sure if you would want to use nolvadex at the same time, since the purpose of nolvadex is to outcompete estradiol for binding in the breast tissue, but since you would be using aromasin, there should be no estradiol to bind. I think the bromo is a good idea to try with it though.

  20. The reason I like the aromatase inhibitor plus Nolvadex is because I want to block estrogen at the receptor site because I don't want to completely eliminate estrogen via the Aromasin because it's not healthy to do so. The purpose of the Aromasin would be to attempt to reduce aromatase in certain tissues of the body rather than just sytemically reduce estrogen. The Andractim, (which I speculate really works systemically to reduce aromatase rather than producing a "local" effect) would be used in an attempt to produce a local effect (it may work using Par's LipoGel formula.) What do you think?

  21. I think aromasin would inhibit aromatase and therefore total estrogen systemically. DHT acts as an aromatase inhibitor, and it would act systemically as well, so I don't see a need to use both, just aromasin.

    How long have you had the gyno, and what are you taking that irritates it, and has there been any reduction in the size or tenderness with what you have already tried?

  22. I have had gyno since 1998. I got it after taking nor-dione. I have never had a noticable reduction using anything. After I got gyno from the Nor-dione, the lumps were so small that I had to pinch my nipple to even tell they were there. The lumps have gotten larger over the years due to my use of SSRI anti-depressants. SSRI's increase prolactin levels, I did not know this untill about a year ago, I leaned about it from Bill Roberts. 4-AD aggravates my gyno even with the use of Arimidex. I did however use ONE and 4-ADerm with 20mg of Nolvadex and .5 mg Arimidex a day with no problems. I tried just using the Nolva, but I got puffier nips, that's why I like the Nolva/Arimidex combo. I sent you a PM.

  23. I think your only hope is surgery. From what I have read, gyno usually reverses itself within a year, if you stop taking whatever caused it. After having it a year, the literature (micromedex) says that treatments really don't work, and that surgury is the only option.

  24. I agree. I still would like to try the Bromo though.

  25. Dazed, I have noticed a reduced estrogenic effect using 4-AD via transdermal rather than taking say 4-AD-ethlycarbonate ester orally. Have you ever tried D-bol transdermal? I would like to try it to see if I could get by without estrogenic side effects. Anti-E's included of course. I think the reduced estrogenic effect trandermal may have to do with the skin being rich in 5-alpha-reductase. Or it may be because the drug is released slower and estrogen does not rise as quickly. What do you think?

  26. I would guess it has to do with it being metabolized differently in the skin compared to taking it orally. I don't know if it would help with Dbol, but it might. The downside would be a large decrease in bioavailability, since transdermally you would only get maybe 20%, if not less (not sure on the exact %, just know it would be less)
  27. BROMO


    I was doing a combination of inj fina w/test prop from Dazed's kit (100 mg prop, 75 mg tren eod) and could have sworn I was getting gyno (nipple tenderness, itching, etc.). This was despite the fact that I was taking arimidex at .5 mg ed and nolvadex 80mg ed. But I was also taking some trazadone (100 mg ed) and recalled reading that both trazadone and fina elevate prolactin. So, I stopped taking the trazadone and started taking 2.5 mg bromo twice a day and the symptoms went away within several days.

  28. 3-beta would be much better suited for home brew anactrim gel since it attatches itself to the estrogen receptor. Throw in some yohimbine and you would be in good shape. The only problem would be you would not want to use alcohol if you were applying it to your nips since it would cause great irritation.

    If someone could come up to a brew similar to Yomiburn, maybe with some DMSO and some other absorption ingredients and take that along with an anti-e I'm sure it would be great for relieving gyno.
    Twitter: @pogue25

  29. Originally posted by pogue
    3-beta would be much better suited for home brew anactrim gel since it attatches itself to the estrogen receptor. Throw in some yohimbine and you would be in good shape. The only problem would be you would not want to use alcohol if you were applying it to your nips since it would cause great irritation.

    If someone could come up to a brew similar to Yomiburn, maybe with some DMSO and some other absorption ingredients and take that along with an anti-e I'm sure it would be great for relieving gyno.
    Yes, but I believe that the ER would be effectively antagonized from local DHT if simply 5aa was used....?

  30. Originally posted by nightop


    Yes, but I believe that the ER would be effectively antagonized from local DHT if simply 5aa was used....?
    No idea. The mfg of anactrim might have some data about localized DHT, but when we start using PHs, we're on our own
    Twitter: @pogue25

  31. Originally posted by pogue


    No idea. The mfg of anactrim might have some data about localized DHT, but when we start using PHs, we're on our own
    ooops nvmd, I was confusing 3-beta with 3-alpha....

    I was referring to local conversion of 5aa to DHT (which has ER antagonistic properties).
  32. what ever happened to Viratase?


    It's supposed to be an anti-E. Did it get caught up in the ph ban?

  33. Just wanted to point out that depending on how your gyno was formed, it may not be an issue of estrogen, but rather an issue of prolactin.

    Cabergoline (I hope I spelled that right) and vitamin B6 seem to work wonders for this.

    Pyridoxine (B6) has a MW of 167, and although oral administration has worked wonders for me in the past, I'm not knowledgable enough on the subject to say whether or not a localized TD effect would be beneficial for your cause. Just something else to think about when trying to get the nips to shrink back up.

  34. Quote Originally Posted by thesinner
    Just wanted to point out that depending on how your gyno was formed, it may not be an issue of estrogen, but rather an issue of prolactin.

    Cabergoline (I hope I spelled that right) and vitamin B6 seem to work wonders for this.

    Pyridoxine (B6) has a MW of 167, and although oral administration has worked wonders for me in the past, I'm not knowledgable enough on the subject to say whether or not a localized TD effect would be beneficial for your cause. Just something else to think about when trying to get the nips to shrink back up.
    I think you are off on that line of thinking. I believe that gyno is always estrogen related. It can be exacerbated by progesterone.

    check out the thread below, posts 24,25 &26 especially:

    anti progesterone?
    Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for life. Lao Tse 6th century BC

  35. Interesting read....so whats the winning TD formula for gyno?

  36. I did some 6-oxo in DMSO and applied it to the gyno, and I diod it befoer by simply mixing Letrozol with PEG and alcohols.

    Both worked very well and Ive got a significant reduction in size, as well as the 6-oxo seems to do very well transdermal as a systemic aromatase inhibitor as well as letro.

  37. Sry, but the only cure that I have ever witnessed is surgery.
    I would love to see a topical cure, but it doesnt seem likely

  38. Quote Originally Posted by ianm4208 View Post
    Sry, but the only cure that I have ever witnessed is surgery.
    I would love to see a topical cure, but it doesnt seem likely
    Well, since Andractim is hormonal and acts directly on the breast cells, it can and does work for some people. Probably worth a try before going straight to surgery.
  

  
 

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