[Brodus]

Very good info, Shadowjack. Thank you very much!

[BigVrunga]

Thanks Shadowjack! Obviously, Chemo made a very informed decision adding DMFA to his gel.

Still, MSDS for DMSO:
http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache...&hl=en&start=1

Compare that to the one for DMFA.

If I had a choice of what to put on my skin, I would choose DMSO.

BV

[Brodus]

Yeah, Big V, I've read both, which is what made me start scratching me head. DMSO is virtually non-toxic.

I guess people's aversion to DMSO breath was a strong enough incentive to find a replacement. Also, there may have been some kind of legal reason. Seems like some people have run into issues with DMSO products that are marketed as transdermal preparations.

[BigVrunga]

That must be why the original BDC gels came with the 24ml of DMSO as a 'side car' in order to 'clean up spills'

Still bro, Id rather chew mints 24/7

BV

[BigVrunga]

OK! Now that the DMFA thing is cleared up, back to homebrew madness!

So, decided to go with the spray, basically the traditional formula, with some D-Limolene and PEG400 added. Here's the breakdown:

40% IPA
12% IPM
12% IPP
10% OA
10% DMSO
6% D-Lim
5% PG
5% PEG400

Just dissolved 10g of 4AD in solution, with some gentle heating and vigorous stirring. Waiting to see if any precipitates out when it cools down to room temp...

BV

[BigVrunga]

Eeexcellent!! Room temp, crystal clear!!

Woohoo!

BV

[judge-mental]

BV, which spray container are you using?

thanks!

[Chemo]

Originally Posted by BigVrunga

OK! Now that the DMFA thing is cleared up, back to homebrew madness!

So, decided to go with the spray, basically the traditional formula, with some D-Limolene and PEG400 added. Here's the breakdown:

40% IPA
12% IPM
12% IPP
10% OA
10% DMSO
6% D-Lim
5% PG
5% PEG400

Just dissolved 10g of 4AD in solution, with some gentle heating and vigorous stirring. Waiting to see if any precipitates out when it cools down to room temp...

BV

First, big shout to ShadowJack for digging up those threads. It looks like someone was paying attention...

As for some insight into making lotions: as a general rule the ratio should be about 45%-45%-10% (oil soluble-water soluble-emulsifier). I have found this ration to hold true for whatever is ultimately used for ingredients. So, let's look at your ingredients and ratios.

OIL SOLUBLE
12% IPM
12% IPP
10% OA
--------------
34% OIL SOLUBLE

WATER SOLUBLE
40% IPA
10% DMSO
5% PG
5% PEG400
---------------
60% WATER SOLUBLE

EMULSIFIER
6% D-Lim

A bit of advice...increase the oil component, decrease IPA to no more than 25%, increase emulsifier to at lease 10%. Also, get some PS-20 from lemelange.com since it is an incredibly effective emulsifer and cheap. Use the PS-20 @ 2.5%

Here is the basic flow of creating the lotion: mix water soluble ingredients. Allow 30 minutes for carbomer to swell. Mix thoroughly until carbomer is dissolved. Adjust pH to 7.4

Next, add all the oil soluble ingredients. Add emulsifier and allow to stand for 30 minutes. Mix well.

Add water soluble component with oil soluble component and mix well. Also, it should be noted that one could dissolve the prohormones in the oil soluble component BEFORE adding to water soluble component.

Chemo

[Wimpie]

Would PS-20 at 2.5% be in addition to the 10% of D-Lim for a total solvent ratio of 12.5%?

[Chemo]

The numbers are a guide and NOT an absolute. I prefer to have as much emulsifer as possible so that the oil soluble component can be increased...thereby increasing the PH solubility characteristics of the lotion.

Less emulsifer = less oil soluble component = less PH's dissolvable

In addition, more emulsifer will make for a stable lotion.

Chemo

[BigVrunga]

Nice. Thanks a lot for your advice, Chemo. I like the spray so far, though - the tweaked traditional recipe above smells good (with 1.5mL of orange oil and the D-Lim), dissolves the PH's completely and evaporates quickly. The only drawback to the spray Ive notices is that, with the spray pump head, if you hold the bottle too far away from your skin some of the product with atomize into the air. You could loose a tiny amount of hormone, and if its 1-test mist you're inhaling it burns like hell

With your advice in mind, I think Im going to go for a lotion with the 7-OXO during PCT.

One thing I noticed is that the Carbomer gelled much better with H2O in the mix, so adding a small amount of water is probably a good idea.

Thanks bro!
BV