- 11-01-2004, 11:56 AM
- 11-01-2004, 03:44 PM
Im using it with 4AD, approx. 150mg/ml. Works well, just a bitch to compound and put into a pump bottle. Better have some 90% Isopropyl Alch on hand to make it runny enough to go through the pump if going that way. All in all though, definitely worth it, good absorbtion.
- 11-01-2004, 11:35 PM
Wondering what you put it in and how but 4ad is not the most difficult
thing to put in.
11-02-2004, 06:05 PM
Some of your questions might be answered in this thread:
Buc-- triceptor says he puts the phlojel into a large syringe (60ml) and measures it out that way. Others put it in some kind of jar and weigh each dose (1ml phlojel weighs about 1g).
11-02-2004, 06:12 PM
I reused a t-gel bottle and pump, kinda messy, but works well.
11-02-2004, 08:05 PM
ok I've been looking for someone who has experience with both dermal gels. So what do you think comparing phlojel to t-gel?
11-02-2004, 08:27 PM
J_Man: Check my link in message 4. Also, we may see more testimonials comparing these products that phlojel is easier to find in a $20 jar.
11-02-2004, 08:40 PM
yeah thanks bro but I've already read that entire thread, from when you posted it here somewhere else. and I also asked the same question in that thread but got no response.
11-03-2004, 12:07 AM
I've asked the question before too. Triceptor has an opinion about this, but no one seems to have reported a first hand comparison of both products. The best you can do is to look at phlojel's usage in the medical community and come up with bioavailability numbers from that.
11-03-2004, 09:19 AM
yep I'm looking up info about it, But since Brock said he used an old t-gel botle to put his phlojel in; I think it's a pretty safe assumption that he's used both. Brock? input?
11-03-2004, 10:11 AM
Honestly, I liked them both. I could tell a distinct difference with the phlojel since I used the same amounts of 4AD applied a day and I bloated more on the phlojel than T-gel. I think the absorbtion rate of the phlojel is definitely higher because of this bloating, maybe around 15-20% I would guess. The T-gel is easier to compound, but the phlojel dried faster and didnt run as much as the t-gel when I did sweat. I bought a 450g jar for $60, and at an average of 120ml in T-gel bottles, it should last 3.5 bottles or around there. If I had to choose between the two, I would go with the phlojel again, but thats me.
11-03-2004, 04:00 PM
Hmm... I think you can get more than 3.5 bottles out of it. Triceptor came up something like 62g 4AD in jar of phlojel (450g).
11-22-2004, 02:54 PM
90g in a 450g tub (200mg/ml), which would be equivalent to 6 bottles of T-Gel (50mg/ml)
12-02-2004, 06:23 PM
IMHO you will get a much higher delivery rate without all the alcohol. I agree, PJU is a bit of a bitch to compound. The traditional squirt bottle transdermals are much easier. Just add powder and shake. However, I believe if you give it a try you will find even better results with the batch being thicker. My favorite TD batch is 150mg 4AD/ 50mg 4OHT per ml. You will need a 60ml syringe. Tkae 9g of 4AD and 3g of 4OHT in a concave bowl or mortar. Add 3 to 5 ml of ethyl and levigate with a pestal or spatula and be sure to break down the 4OHT as the 4AD will blend easily into the ethyl. Once you have a paste weigh out the balance of PJU to make up the 60ml. So if you used 4ml of ethyl and you have a total of 12g of powder, you will need 44ml of PJU. PJU is almost 1:1 ratio of volume to weight. 1ml of PJU weighs 1.01g, so weight out 43.5g of PJU and add it to your paste in equal portions. Blend well and thoroughly. Once completed, open a new 60ml syringe, pull the plunger out and load the batch into the back with a spatula. Let it sit overnight.Originally Posted by Brock Landers
When you add more than 10% alcohol in an effort to make it more towards a liquid you are reducing the lecithins ability to suround the drug. The way a lecithin based organogel works is the lecithin encapsulates the drug in a circle of molecules. It disrupts the cells of the stratum korneum and carries the drug in along with itself sort of like a trojan horse. I realize it's a pain in the ass to compound, but I promise you get better results. Also, as Strateg0s has pointed out, shower, scrub the area and shave any hair. I also like to take a little niacin right before I go to train in an effort to get more of the drug into my system. The niacin flush open small blood pathways that scavange the drug deposited right beneath the skin by the transdermal. I call it my transdermal turbo charge.
I mix a batch of some type of TD very regularly. I can bang out a batch of TD starting with a raw powder in about 15 minutes real time. Once you have it down, its very quick. Having the right tools helps.
12-02-2004, 06:45 PM
How much niacin are you taking for this purpose? Thanks.
12-02-2004, 09:08 PM
200mg usually gives me a niacin flush. If you've never taken niacin in larger than 50mg doses before, you may want to start out at 100mg and work your way up. High doses of niacin causes severe itching if you're not accoustomed to it. It only last for about 15 minutes.Originally Posted by rrgg
01-04-2005, 11:47 AM
Thanks guys. Great thread so far ! !
01-06-2005, 04:55 PM
01-06-2005, 04:55 PM
01-06-2005, 07:07 PM
I'm probably going to use Plogel for my upcoming cycle. It was stated that if frozen it will separate and will not be able to go back into solution. If it is shipped in the winter, wouldn't it freeze? Any comments?
01-06-2005, 09:46 PM
I've only seen one jar that actually froze and it was due to the fact that the mail man in question left the package in an outside mailbox on a day of below 30 degrees and the recipien didn't check his mail till the next day. I stand to be corrected but PLO Gel will freeze as well under these same conditions. Also, once frozen PhloJel doesn't seperate, however, some of the oil comes to the top but can easily be mixed back in.
Every package has a large label on it that says "Protect From Freezing". Most postal carriers will deliver sucha package to an indoor point such as the office of an apartment complex or ring your door bell, etc.
Originally Posted by doggzj
01-07-2005, 02:27 PM
For what it's worth, I've shipped tropical plants to New England in mid-winter without trouble. You could get lucky.
01-17-2005, 11:17 AM
Yeah I'm the guy that had his PJU freeze. The mail comes several hours before I get home from work. It was out in the cold for several hours. After it thawed, I remixed it and made a small batch and it worked just fine. I'm on my second batch now and the jar of PJU separated very little between the batches.Originally Posted by triceptor
04-18-2005, 01:02 PM
any more feedback ?
Also.. has anyone had to use Bacardi 151 ?
05-01-2005, 12:27 AM
Hrm. I think that Phlojel with a little DMSO and limonene added is going to be on my list of things to try.
05-01-2005, 07:16 AM
you can add DMSO and/or d-limonine to PJU to enhance penetration. below is my post regarding this over at Avant forum. please pay attention to the recommended % if you choose to incorporate these penetration enhancers.
If you want to increase the amount of drug penetrating the skin (the epidermis) at a given concentration in the base then incorporating an additional penetration enhancer in the base might accomplish this. Common types of penetration enhancers in this context are menthol (1-3%), propylene glycol (5-10%), DMSO (dimethylsulfoxide, 5-15%) and d-limonene (1-3%). By their very nature they a tendency to disrupt the structure of the skin as well as the delivery system, PHLOJEL Ultra. Hence, products containing these are thin, more like a lotion but useable and effective. Menthol is a crystalline substance that requires considerable particle size reduction (levigation) in order to incorporate it and it has a strong odor and cooling sensation on the skin. DMSO is a strong penetration enhancer but is nonspecific with respect to what penetrates the skin (formulation ingredients also penetrate the skin significantly). Propylene glycol simply disrupts the water structure of skin allowing penetration through pores in the skin. D-limonene has been widely studied in Japan and has been shown to possess signifcant penetration power for a number of drugs applied from simple bases. It's related to menthol but doesn't have the disadvantages of menthol.
07-14-2005, 07:51 AM
07-14-2005, 08:08 AM
PhloJel is not a PLO. It has several other components that PLO's don't have and most notably, PhloJel does not have an Pluronic in it.Originally Posted by Carlito
07-14-2005, 08:15 AM
Thanks for clearing that up , the Plogel I make is made of lecithin granules, Iso Palmitate, 90% isop alcohol , H2O, d-limonene and a surfactant blend of oils...it works well.Originally Posted by triceptor
BTW, do you know of any link where I can find a chart of molecular weights of hormones?
07-14-2005, 08:39 AM
PLO stands for Pluronic Lecithin Organogel. If you don't have any Pluronic in you formulation then you truely can't refer to it as a PLO gel. It would be classified as an LBO (Lecithin Based Organogel). You can find molecular weights as well as other information on various drugs and compounds here at the National Library of Medicine http://chem.sis.nlm.nih.gov/chemidplus/Originally Posted by Carlito
07-15-2005, 02:41 AM
I am 4 days in on a test cycle with Phojel Ultra and I already have some zits and other signs it is working. Definetly good stuff.
As far as absorbtion percentage of phlojel vs. this vs. that, etc. there is no way to put a number on it. There is a max out point on all of them, but even if you could determine it that doesnt mean every user is going to experience it. All you can do is try to maximize it as much as possible and hope for the best.
07-15-2005, 05:32 PM
Originally Posted by lozgod
I started 3 days ago with test base and phlojel at 200mg/g and boldenone base 200mg/g. Definately works, unfortuantley I have strained my back and it's screwing up my lifting. I also will be using your liquid anavar recipe, thanks for taking the time.
anyways, are you applying doses once or twice daily. From the reference I read it looked like it peaks in 6-8 hours and a morning spike is preferred to minimize aromatase, so I am currently dosing around 8:00 am and right before I go to bed. I was hoping for your opinion on this.
07-16-2005, 09:16 AM
Ill have to try some of this with 10% DMSO for my next dermal in the winter. Looks like some good stuff.
07-17-2005, 11:03 AM
I been taking it at rising and at bed, but I just ran in to serious BP problems. I was up to 170/105. I took a break over the weekend and it is returning to normal. So I may lower the dosage or go to 1 a day dosing. I know all the level blood level stuff, but I believe you will get results from 1 a day dosing, you just put yourself at higher risk of sides.Originally Posted by momod
07-18-2005, 07:55 AM
Dosing once a day may not be that bad. Here is a cgart from the androgel clinical study, both total and free test steadily increased over 24 hours. So I'm not convinced that test levels are going to ping pong with once a day dosing.Originally Posted by lozgod
07-18-2005, 08:37 AM
Good to know. Thanks.Originally Posted by velikimajmun
07-18-2005, 12:10 PM
Originally Posted by velikimajmun
Thanks for the info, Triceptor recommends every 12 hours but it does not seem that critical. I apply mine to my testes, so 3-4 times per day is preferred (-:.
Please correct me if Im wrong, but....
Do enzymes that convert test exist in greater concentrations in different tissues/areas?
Is appyling to my testes going to give me greater conversion to DHT, verses applying to my tits which may have a greater amount of aromatase enzyme available. Or should we just worry about applying to areas in which the skin is thin, like tops of feet?
07-18-2005, 12:46 PM
Yes, you are correct enzymes vary by site. On the scalp or testes (never do this) you would get more DHT. Fatty areas will give more estrogen because of aromatase found in adipose tissue. Just use areas of thin skin.Originally Posted by momod
07-18-2005, 01:06 PM
Originally Posted by velikimajmun
I love DHT, perhaps this explains my hypermasculinity and frequent erections.
07-18-2005, 04:28 PM
way too much informationOriginally Posted by momod
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