can we get "plo" gel?
- 08-26-2004, 06:47 PM
- 6'4" 208 lbs.
- Join Date
- May 2003
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- 12-02-2004, 04:55 PM
Originally Posted by julius kelp
- 12-02-2004, 05:12 PM
12-03-2004, 10:05 AM
gelkit vs phlojel
Your comparing apples to oranges.
One is bulk gel the other includes the two components and the mixing and dosing system.
12-03-2004, 06:28 PM
PhloJel Ultra is premixed, just add your powder. You can easily add up to 100mg/ml (10% concentration) without any solvent at all and up to 200mg/ml using solvents. As for dosing, you can buy 60ml syringes on the net for around 60 cents a unit including shipping if bought in small quantities (25 to a box). All in all it appears the PhloJel Ultra is more economical if you plan on homebrewing a few batches. 29.95 for the PLO kit with a 5g concentration potential puts the unit cost at around $5.99/g of TD and 69.95 for 450g jar PJU with a 45g concentration potential (without using solvents) puts the unit cost around $1.55/g of TD. Neither of these examples include the cost of the powder obviously.
Also, its not a good idea to reuse the syringes from any lecithin based transdermal (PLO ot PJU). There are no preservatives in transdermals and lecithin is organic and can become contaminated, will mold and spoil. You don't want to deliver mold spores along with your 4AD IMHO.
Originally Posted by fafhrd
12-04-2004, 11:47 AM
Not knocking Phlojel. The kit just provides a convenient mixing and dosing platform. Your info on the preservatives is erroneous, though, as the lecithin componenent is treated with sorbic acid and the polymer component with potassiom sorbate, both food grade preservatives.
12-04-2004, 01:38 PM
I will call my contact at JAR to clarify the issue of preservatives and post the response, however, it is my uderstanding from both a conversation with a local compounding pharmacist as well as JAR Pharma that is\f lecithin organogels are contaminated they will grow mold. Contamination meaning exposure to other organic matter (oily residue from your finger) and given the proper conditions for spores to proliferate they will. Either way, I don't think it is wise to reuse syringes even in the presence of some preservatives. That was my only point.
Originally Posted by fafhrd
12-04-2004, 01:48 PM
I thought you said not to refridgerate any of this stuff. I'll look forward to the JAR explanation.
12-04-2004, 02:11 PM
Correct, you are not supposed to refigerate PJU. It is stable at room temperature and will not go bad. At room temperature it has a stated shelf life of 1 year. Refigeration will cause it to seperate and from what JAR has told me, it can not be reconstituted without special equipment.
The issue about preservatives is seperate of this fact. I will post this info next week when I have an answer. Regardless of preservatives, any lecithin organogel will go bad if given enough time. I purchased 2 100g jars of Difusimax a couple years ago when I was experimenting with different TD bases. I was cleaning my supplement cabinet out and found one of the jars. It had been unopened the whole time it was stored. I removed the cap and the gel had turned a funky orange color and had an odor.
My only reason for drawing attention to this was to illustrate that reusing syringes is not a good idea.
Originally Posted by rrgg
12-06-2004, 10:17 AM
I'll see if I can scan the labels from Gallipot. They have the ingredients on them.
12-06-2004, 12:30 PM
This is way off the original thread but since you're discussing refrigeration, I have a couple questions for you about frozen phlojel. I ordered 450g and I expected the weather to be desent when it arrived since the forecast looked above freezing for a week. I took exactly 14 days to arrive after it was ordered. The day it arrived it was hovering around freezing and was in the mailbox several hours before I got home. It puffed up and was oozing out around the lid. I wasn't really sure if it froze or not. I let it warm up overnight and the next day it shrunk back down and had some separation. I took a butterknife, wiped it with alcohol, remixed the PJU, and it hasn't reseparated yet. I went ahead and made a small batch and it seems to be working fine. Is this stuff no longer usable after freezing / close to freezing or will it just separate from now on kind of like natural peanut butter does? Is the shelf life greatly reduced? It says on the box "protect from freezing", but now you say refrigerating is bad too - what is the lowest temperature that PJU can handle? Will storing it at close to its lowest temperature possibly keep it from deteriorating further if it's already damaged? I guess just tell me what you can and what my options are here. I really hate to spend $70 and then have nothing to show for it. After all, I was expecting 4-5 days delivery.
12-06-2004, 02:26 PM
Its not problem, just a little inconvient to have to remix the stuff. Please PM or email me so I can ask you a couple questions and give you a suggestion or two. This is the first time we have had this problem however it is something I was afraid would happen. It is not likely that the postman is going to get out of his truck and ring a door bell even though the labels states protect from freezing. I spoke to JAR Pharma after reading your post and in the future when shipping to a cold climate we will ask that the PJU be held at the local PO for pickup. This may be a pain in the ass for some, but its the only way to get the product delivered at no additional cost for shipping and not left outdoors for hours where it can freeze.
Also, the perfect temperature for PJU is room temperature. Cold or freezing makes it seperate, as you so pointed out, like natty p nut butter, and you have to remix.
Originally Posted by former_SlimJim
12-11-2004, 09:15 PM
Dollar for dollar it looks like phlogel is the way to go.A 5 gram kit for 30 bucks. That is probaly the worst price I have seen for any transdermal solution.
12-16-2004, 05:05 PM
gets you the tools to mix and dose properly. IA also sells bulk plo gel and the seperate components.There are three inherent problems with pre-mixed gels including those from Iron Apothecary.
1 How do you know that all of the active has dissolved completely if you don't dissolve it before putting it into the gel?
2 How can you tell when the gel and active are mixed properly and completely?
3 How do you dose accurately? You can't draw gel into a syringe, it must be pushed into it. Ask any compounding pharmacist how they mix their products. They don't use pre-mixed gels, especially when even small fluctuations in dosage can be critical. (i.e. in the use of topical narcotics)
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