[mordoh]

Hi all ,

im not a body builder and i came across this web site because
im looking for a way to make water soluble substance penetrate
my skin in the most effective way (i need that all of the substance will
penetrate), and i read some posts of you guys and you know more about
that then me ....


my questions are

what's the difference in penetration of hydrophilic substance with spray, gel
or cream?

i used a spray with this ingredients:

80% water
20% ethanol

they contained already the substances i wanted to penetrate the skin,
and added to this (in the total volume):

10% propylene glycol
5% dmso

still i don't see much of improvement (and i think its because the water soluble
substance didn't penetrate so well into the skin).

i thought of trying already made cream (bought at store) but i don't know if
the substance will mix good with it and what is the effectiveness of that...
and ideas?

i read also in some articles that water soluble substance don't penetrate to the skin
very good at all , but in the post of curt2go he says that water soluble substances do
penetrate very good.... what is right then?

do you think the recipe of curt2go with the aloe vera gel will be the best choice for me?
maybe mixing his recipe with a made cream ?

will oleic acid help the penetration ?

im sorry for the long post, im just so confused about that, and i hope you can help me
with that

btw : the water soluble substances are catechin , quercetin and water soluble ginger

thanks a lot

[nsruffryder34]

The curt to go recipe wil work well... no need for oleic acid.. DMSO is probably the best in my opinion, only because there are not alot of PE's for hydrophylic substances.

[mordoh]

ive been reading a lot of threads in the past couple of days , and im trying to understand all of the chemistry about skin penetration...

can any body here explain and give good information about this things ,..

i mean , in one place i read that hydrophilic substances can't penetrate the skin ,while in curt2go post i read that they penetrate very good (they only need moisture / water??)

if i choose to use oleic acid, will i need menthol also ? which one is better p.e ? will it make the delivery to be systemticly and not localy? maybe its better to use it before applying the gel (like in a post i read when they use the dmso before applying the cream / gel) ...

will rubbing alcohol before applying the gel gives better results of penetration ?

why water alone will not work , but aloe gel with water will ? water dont supply enough hydration to the skin?

sorry for my bad english ... i try my best

its very confusing the all hydrophilic / hydrophobic thing and penetration to skin localy and not systematicly .... and i hope some one can give me answers about this

thanks.

[nsruffryder34]

Ok, hydrophylic (water loving) substances have a harder time pen. the skin because the skin is oily and lipophylic (fat loving) .... soo steroid and PHs are lipophylic whihc is why they are good choices for transdermal application,.... hydrophylic subtances such as HCL, and other salts have a harder time pen. the skin. When making a hyrdophylic transdermal carrier, you want mostly water based ingrediants so you need to find water based PE... I beleive oliec acid, d0limonene, etc.. are lipophylic.... this si why metnhol si used, it isnt really a great PE, but what it does is open the skin for the other PE to penetrate.... it is a must In my opinion, also Iso, Alocholhl isnt a great PE and it also dries on the skin very quickly, leaving the substances sitting ont he skin....
I suggest following curts formula... maybe adding a good amount of DMSO.

[mordoh]

thanks for explaining this to me ... i think ill go and start trying curt formula

[mordoh]

I made the gel :

Aloe vera (97.5%) - 60%
Limonene - 10%
Ethanol (70%) - 30% (desolved all of the substances inside)

Do you think that if ill put on after i apply the gel an occlusive dressing, like
plastic wrap, will the active substances will penetrate better to the skin , and still
won't get to the blood?

thanks.