PLO instead of DMSO

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    PLO instead of DMSO


    JWeave here you go.

    Brief summary of John Romano's, Ear to the Street, "Good-Bye DMSO Hello PLO" courtesy of Muscular Development. Said that people trying to do a fina tansdermal with DMSO stunk. Said that PLO was a more effective means for transdermal application. According to gotfina.com PLO(pluronic lecithin organogel) is a transdermal used to deliver NSAIDS products when other routes are not viable.

    Further, PLO is non-irritating to the skin, absorbs quickly and is practically odorless. It is best used with molecular weights less than 400.

    Tell me what y'all think on this one. Peace.

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    I think I'd rather make a fina homebrew.
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    Originally posted by pogue
    I think I'd rather make a fina homebrew.
    ???
    •   
       

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    Rather than use JUST dmso or JUST plo-gel, I'd create a homebrew and throw my fina in there. I think you'd get better absorption that way.
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    A bit of info I found on PLO: Sounds interesting.......


    http://www.reedsrx.com/compounding/gels.htm
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    Originally posted by pogue
    Rather than use JUST dmso or JUST plo-gel, I'd create a homebrew and throw my fina in there. I think you'd get better absorption that way.


    Pogue, once again ?????.
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    I reserched this when I was reserching the formula for the current homebrew. Its sounds pretty good BUT 1) you can't make it yourself 2) The price is too much 3) You may need a script to get it....  It has been around for awhile but I don't think its the best choice. I would have to go with a good homebrew instead of PLO or DMSO by itself. Its cheap and you won't stink and you will get around 40% absorption... Hope that helps.. Talk to ya..
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    Its cheap and you won't stink and you will get around 40% absorption


    Curt i know you know your stuff but im gonna have to raise the bull**** flag once again. Transdermals are roughly in the 20-25 percent range for testosterone. Big cat says that because of the acetate ester on tren that absorption is 20 percent max! K(same) and others who compare cycle results of those injecting to those using dsmo show that they need roughly 4 to 5 times as muchhence a 20-25 percent absorption. Testerones absorb at 20-25 percent and dsmo doesn't enhance it hardly at all. When you put a acetate ester in your lucky to get 20 percent.

    Oral tren is the best way to go. Its 20-30 percent absorption and patrick arnold has studies showing its resistance to breakdown and hence higher bioavailability then transdermal.


    If you know how to break up the doses in 4 times a day it allows for even blood absorption. Also orals raise sbhg values which is very improtant in some of us with naturally high sbhg values.

    My advice to anyone if your choosing between transdermal fina and oral, choose oral. Ask patrick arnold if you don't belive me
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    I'm won't even rationalize that with an answer.. Talk to ya...
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    Curt i know its all opinion of others but so is the 40 percent figure


    Ive seen some of the doses that wardog has used for his fina + deca + 4-AD cycle and i would say his absorption is AROUND 15 percent when he was using finasol. If it was anywhere near 30 percent he would be doing an insane amount of gear!
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    Originally posted by pjorstad




    Curt i know you know your stuff but im gonna have to raise the bull**** flag once again. Transdermals are roughly in the 20-25 percent range for testosterone. Big cat says that because of the acetate ester on tren that absorption is 20 percent max! K(same) and others who compare cycle results of those injecting to those using dsmo show that they need roughly 4 to 5 times as muchhence a 20-25 percent absorption. Testerones absorb at 20-25 percent and dsmo doesn't enhance it hardly at all. When you put a acetate ester in your lucky to get 20 percent.

    Oral tren is the best way to go. Its 20-30 percent absorption and patrick arnold has studies showing its resistance to breakdown and hence higher bioavailability then transdermal.


    If you know how to break up the doses in 4 times a day it allows for even blood absorption. Also orals raise sbhg values which is very improtant in some of us with naturally high sbhg values.

    My advice to anyone if your choosing between transdermal fina and oral, choose oral. Ask patrick arnold if you don't belive me

    English please.
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    If you knew WD which you don't you would know that he DOES do insane dosages.. Please go and read my threads at bb.com they are the ones that created the homebrew recipe used now by many.

    They are1) Perfecting Homebrew

    2)Homebrew perfected  both by me(helped by allot of others though)

    Also you will see that i talked with some scientists as well. Its a good read go take a look. Hope it helps you out.. Talk to ya......
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    hehe crazy wardog. I believe he was doing 250 mg of tren 250 of deca and 500 of 4-AD a day when i saw him post his cycle results. Thats 8 grams of gear a week. At 15 percent that would 1.2 grams of gear! That is a lot in itself. patrick arnold says transdermals are 10-20 percent and I think this guy is brilliant(no offense chemo and curt you guys are smart too ) It seems odd how my estimation of 15 percent seems right in line with patricks. I Doubt wardog did more then a little more then a gram of gear. Unless he has done injections to KNOW that he has done like 3 grams of gear(assuming 30 percent absorption).
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    Your estimations are not in line with his they are based on his... If you look at patricks formula for his transdermal you will see that it is not very effecient. Someone who knows so much about transdermals would probably make the best mix but in his case it is not. How do you explain that? Talk to ya
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    He knows the science behind it, not the science of how to make the best one i guess. Regardless though we must admmit that there ishardly any difference between what wardog used and avants and bdc. Par deus has been quoted as saying dsmo enhances the absorption rate a mere 20 percent, that is only 4 percent higher if its originally 20 percent to begin with.


    I believe that the differences between all formulas( pure dsmo included) is probably no more then 5 to 10 percent max. I think one time one guy said his dsmo and saran wrap was getting 50 pecent and everyone then believe that and spread it around. Its funny because guys that hve used 100 mg with dsmo and saran wrap say it don't touch injection which is odd since 50 mg is a lot of tren to do everday when 40 can be seen with good results in SOME people. Some guys also say 40 percent some say 75 percent and some say 25 percent(par deus blatantly said this in his trenabole acetate article on different deliveries, i think i hve the link too).
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    Originally posted by pjorstad
    Curt i know you know your stuff but im gonna have to raise the bull**** flag once again. Transdermals are roughly in the 20-25 percent range for testosterone. Big cat says that because of the acetate ester on tren that absorption is 20 percent max! K(same) and others who compare cycle results of those injecting to those using dsmo show that they need roughly 4 to 5 times as muchhence a 20-25 percent absorption. Testerones absorb at 20-25 percent and dsmo doesn't enhance it hardly at all. When you put a acetate ester in your lucky to get 20 percent.

    Oral tren is the best way to go. Its 20-30 percent absorption and patrick arnold has studies showing its resistance to breakdown and hence higher bioavailability then transdermal.

    If you know how to break up the doses in 4 times a day it allows for even blood absorption. Also orals raise sbhg values which is very improtant in some of us with naturally high sbhg values.

    My advice to anyone if your choosing between transdermal fina and oral, choose oral. Ask patrick arnold if you don't belive me
    Where the **** do I start with this one?

    First, transdermals with strictly long chain fatty acids for penetration enhancers will get only 20-25% absorption.  Couple this with the added SC disruption from DMSO and one could easily approach 30-40%.  BC is correct when he says that tren acetate is max 20% because IT IS STILL ESTERFIED.  Obviosly, if you leave the ester on the molecule it will hinder abosorption and limit it to around 20%.  If you saponify the ester it will abosorb the same as any other base modified molecule.  In other words, take the damn ester off...

    Second, oral MAY get 20% but transdemal still gets more absorbed especially when talking about a DE-ESTERFIED modification.

    Third, my advice is if choosing between a transdermal and oral fina go with a transdermal.  Not because I am biased since this forum revolves around YOU LEARNING HOW TO MAKE A HOMEBREW YOURSELF but because it is the delivery method that consistently gives reproduceable gains across the board.  I've only heard 1 in 10 actually claim to have gained from oral tren regardless of theoretical studies.  Real world feedback is the proof in the pudding...and transdermals have much better results.

    Chemo
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    Originally posted by pjorstad
    ...patrick arnold says transdermals are 10-20 percent and I think this guy is brilliant(no offense chemo and curt you guys are smart too ) It seems odd how my estimation of 15 percent seems right in line with patricks...
    WTF?  Go read the studies posted over on bb.com about perfecting homebrew.  Now go read the articles that were presented during that thread and you will find several that have only PG/i-prop getting 10-15% absorption.  PG is 1 hydroxyl group away from being i-prop alcohol so this can give you a good indication of its penetration enhancing character.  With the inclusion of other PE's such as IPM, OA, IPP, and glycerol the number still hovers around 10-20%?  Pull your head out of your ass pjorstad...

    Chemo
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    Now you've done it. Chemo's pissed. hehehehe. Talk to ya...
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    Originally posted by pjorstad
    ...I believe that the differences between all formulas( pure dsmo included) is probably no more then 5 to 10 percent max. I think one time one guy said his dsmo and saran wrap was getting 50 pecent and everyone then believe that and spread it around. Its funny because guys that hve used 100 mg with dsmo and saran wrap say it don't touch injection which is odd since 50 mg is a lot of tren to do everday when 40 can be seen with good results in SOME people. Some guys also say 40 percent some say 75 percent and some say 25 percent(par deus blatantly said this in his trenabole acetate article on different deliveries, i think i hve the link too).
    Compared to the studies that have been done with only PG/i-prop alcohol at 10% absorption efficiency can only be improved to and addition 10%  (20% total)?  You have to be kidding me pjorstad...

    The downfall of most tren tansdermals is that they lack the skills to saponify the esters and hence decrease their absorption significantly.  You can't compare rates of absorption with the base molecules since they won't even be in the same league with respect to absorption efficiency.

    Chemo
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    Big daddy chemo if you LEAVE the ester on are you saying transdermal still is the best way to go???? I believe a lot of people aren't using orals effectively. Splitting the dosage up 4 ways, using the recommended 10-12 pellets and using the higest dosage before workout 2nd highest after workout and 3rd and 4th dosage slightly less. ALso orals increase SBHG which also helps.

    Especially when you factor in convenience can oral and transdermal probably run neck and neck if used in the above fashion?


    With the inclusion of other PE's such as IPM, OA, IPP, and glycerol the number still hovers around 10-20%? Pull your head out of your ass pjorstad...

    So are you saying instead of doing a gram of test a week i should do 200 mg of test and 200 mg of deca and 500 mg of 4-AD? and still see the same results??? I doubt it

    THats the kind of analogy im seeing here........ lets not just stick with one but throw everything in the batch and make the concentration of each ingredient less and wadaa its now much better!

    Sorry if i sound ignorant but i don't see how that changes things. Unless some work at different layers o somehow to push what the other cant do.
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    Originally posted by pjorstad
    Big daddy chemo if you LEAVE the ester on are you saying transdermal still is the best way to go????
    That is exactly opposite what I'm saying...I cite that as the downfall to current popular techniques for tren transdermals.

    Originally posted by pjorstad
    Especially when you factor in convenience can oral and transdermal probably run neck and neck if used in the above fashion?
    Are you serious?

    Originally posted by pjorstad
    So are you saying instead of doing a gram of test a week i should do 200 mg of test and 200 mg of deca and 500 mg of 4-AD? and still see the same results??? I doubt it
    You doubt it because you are obviosly lacking experience and knowledge.  This is the reasoning behind STACKING AAS COMPOUNDS.  Although, I would not use the low amounts listed above if I were serious about my cycle.

    Originally posted by pjorstad
    THats the kind of analogy im seeing here........ lets not just stick with one but throw everything in the batch and make the concentration of each ingredient less and wadaa its now much better!
    See the above response...it's called additive effect.

    Chemo
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    Thanks for answering, big daddy chemo. Not trying to give you a hard time the problem is everyone and their grandma has a different opinion on this.


    Well the fact that you were talking about how there is inconsistency in oral tren users made me not sure where you stand but now i understand oral is a little better probably if the ester is left a lone.


    Ive heard that side effects from using one compound such as test is the reason why a whole mix of compounds are used in a decently thought out cycle so less of each is used, but maybe they were misinformed when they said this and it truly is more of a additive effect.


    Well now that you say both are additive i understand the reasoning
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    Heya


    can you guys post a link to your thread about homebrewed alternatives to Plogel?

    Thanks :-)
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    I read the MD article and i want to use some plo-gel, does anyone know where it can be bought?
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    Well what do you know! Patrick ARnold says that a mix of penetration enhancers might not work synergistically. Hmmm i never seen him say that but that seems to be the same thing i hypothesizes.


    I have once before confronted Par Deus about his topical delivery system and questioned his combination of penetration enhancers and his belief that they acted synergistically.
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...&pagenumber=15
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    Originally posted by pjorstad
    Well what do you know! Patrick ARnold says...
    Listen...all I hear from you is "PA says [insert quote]"  Do you think it taboo to formulate original ideas and have an independent mind?  The intent of these message boards is to read peer input from SEVERAL sources and formulate an individual opinion.

    Enough of the brainless spewing of quotes from a single source...formulate YOUR OWN OPINION and present it.

    Chemo
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    Pjorstad goes from here to bb.com and starts new threads with PA's name on them. For instance: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...threadid=96238

    And then comes back here and sas I told you so. Nice work. Good research.
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    LMAO Thanks for putting him in his place. No wonder why he got banned.
  

  
 

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