Cheap Caffeine Transdermal?
- 05-02-2004, 11:23 PM
Cheap Caffeine Transdermal?
I was at the drug store looking for some CoQ10 lotion, and saw these new "firming" creams, that have caffeine in the top half of the ingredient list.
You can get them for $4 for an 11-ounce bottle, so I said what the hell.
1. It says clinically proven to improve firmness of skin and reduce visible cellulite after two weeks of use. They don't have to post any FDA stuff, and I read some other info, and apparently this is true. Do you think this is bunk? I mean, Lipo-Ultra and others have caffeine in the ingredient list? If this delivery method works, how can it be so cheap?
2. Do you think any of the caffeine goes systemic? I couldn't find an answer to this on this board.
- 05-05-2004, 05:58 AM
Originally Posted by Brodus
Caffeine is an effective fat loss aid, locally. It reduces adenosine binding to its anti-lipolytic receptor and inhibits PDE's producing more adenosine, which also preserves cAMP for longer. When comparing improved theoretical formula's to my old formula's I always use caffeine as the only active ingredient. xanthine's have a long-standing history of being effective local fat loss aids. Not the best, their are much better ingredients, but it works to some extent. Its not bad addition per se, lets put it that way.
An interesting note is that Lipoderm has added caffeine supposedly for reasons of decreasing water retention. This is of course complete bull, since xanthine's exert their diuretic effects systemically, not locally.
- 05-05-2004, 12:14 PM
Thanks a lot for your reply, BigCat.
I think I've read everything you've posted here, as well as your PH articles on BB.com, and a ton of other stuff you've written, and it's helped me immensely in my growth of knowledge.
I read your posts on local delivery very closely, and also read the similar thread that was on BB.com, and it's nice to read information posted by someone who clearly has an understanding, as well as the scrutiny that is required for academic-style discourse, vs. supplement sales literature.
Re: this stuff, I know it's not an optimal delivery method, and I'm not going to be putting anything in it, but it was more like, for $4, can it hurt? I posted the ingredients below.
As far as the systemic uptake, I'm not particularly concerned-->in other words, if I did get some systemic, I wouldn't mind.
I've always been curious about the true action of xanthene as a local lipolytic. Thanks!
Oh, and in re: to other company's and their claims, I had a discussion with a rep from Xtreme Formulations (Etched--7-Keto and 4-Hydroxy test transdermal), and he explained that it is a "site-specific" gel, even though . I tried calling him on this for a # of reasons, and this was his reply:
Why does the site specific carrier alone cost twice as much as Etched?
to protect all sales of finished retail products
Why do other site specific products cost much more than Etched, when HydroxyTest is more expensive than 1T and certainly 4AD?
no clue, they aren't really unless they are 120ml vs. 60
Isn't the research behind localized delivery of Hydroxytest inconclusive?
INGREDIENTS in "FIRMING" CREAM:
WATER, GLYCERIN, CETEARYL ALCOHOL, ACRYLATES COPOLYMER, PETROLATUM, MINERAL OIL, CETEARETH-20, ALUMINUM STARCH OCTENYLSUCCINATE, CAFFEINE, DIMETHICONE, CYCLOMETHICONE, STEARIC ACID, GLYCERYL DILAURATE, FUCUS VESICULOSUS EXTRACT*, CENTELLA ASIATICA EXTRACT, BUTYLENE GLYCOL, DMDM HYDANTOIN, METHYLPARABEN, HYDROLYZED WHEAT PROTEIN/PVP CROSSPOLYMER, ACRYLATES/C10-30 ALKYL ACRYLATE CROSSPOLYMER, PROPYLPARABEN, FRAGRANCE, SODIUM HYDROXIDE.
* SEAWEED EXTRACT
05-05-2004, 01:18 PM
[/b]Originally Posted by Brodus
Of course it can't, but if for a few bucks more you can make something that really works, then why even waste 4 bucks ? The ingredients are similar to all similar skin care products and anti-rheumatic creams out there, I'm assuming there is at least some degree of local uptake, even if not that deep, since some of the anti-rheumatic creams do reduce pain at the site of implication.
You always get some systemic.As far as the systemic uptake, I'm not particularly concerned-->in other words, if I did get some systemic, I wouldn't mind.
As far as xtreme formulations, they are the same company that market Sytenhance, the delivery is the exact same flawed system that avantlabs uses, in fact these products are designed by avant's CEO and probably outsourced because not even he would risk something as ****ed up as sytenhance with a ****ty system like that. The system as I posted will already yield better results, my current findings have me working with a system that is easily ten times better and I still wouldn't chance it with a local anabolic.
On top of that steroidals are poor products for local delivery. Their lipophillic nature doesn't keep them in the carrier resulting in a substantial systemic uptake. You still get some local uptake though.
The good news is that even this sytenhance crap seems to work for some people, which does bring the promise of a cost-effective local delivery anabolic. Considering i have made considerably improvements to the system using an extremely effective penetration enhancement complex that only comprises 2% of the entire mix (thus not interfering with the carrier) and have several perfectly legal, safe ingredients that are more suited to local delivery that will enhance local muscle growth more than any steroidal, it will be interesting to see if any other companies have a go at it. Plus its synergistic and easily combined with androgenic steroids, leaving all options open.
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