---5 g Tren+7 g 4 ad+ T Gel: The FINAL WORD----

[fullycovered]

Okay guys, to those that were reading up on my original thread about how I was having trouble w/my gel not mixing properly, I have just completed the process(MUCH thanks to Big Daddy Chemo) this afternoon.....

Originally, I just added the crushed up fina pellets(5 g of comp TH) and the 4 ad to the gel, and I kept having trouble w/the gel b/c it was separating into 2 different substances....


First, I got hold of Red Devil Lye and made a solution of 1 tbsp of this along w/a cup of water, this was done in order to bring the pH level back to an acceptable range.....This worked eventually, I ended up adding about 20 drops of the NaO2 into my gel and finally got it to about 7.7-7.8...........**NOTE---I may have made this solution a little weaker than expected, I say this b/c 20 drops of NaO2 seemed like a little much, but according to my test papers, it worked out just fine for me****

There was still a separation problem I was running into, and after playing PM tag w/BDC we finally hooked up today to see what could be done to get the gel back to how it should be........


THE SOLUTION???? PLAIN OLD WATER!!!!!!

Now, BDC was saying I could use glycerol to add to my gel, but unfortunately I don't have any, so the next best thing was distilled water, which I didn't have any of either.....I did have purified water, so I drew up 5 ml of the water and added it to my bottle, shook it up for 30 sec. and things started to mix nicely.....after letting it sit for about 45 min, there was still a TINY bit of separation, so I went ahead and added another 5 ml of water to bring the total to 10ml of water...........it is now PERFECT, I have a pic of it here I just have to figure out how the hell to get it on the site....


So that's that, very simple process, DO I GET MY BADGE NOW ??? hehehehe.


I can't wait til Mon, the fun begins....... now i just need to figure out dosages for the gel, but I'm running it w/drol for the first 3 weeks and then probably winny, my stats at the moment are 5'10, 197 lbs, about 9%bf, 32 in waist so I'm gonna just go for more size, I am naturally skinny so the bf gain doesn't really bother me, hell it's winter in Chicago so I have plenty of time to cut(hence the winny at the end).

Much thanks to Big Daddy Chemo for taking the time to fix this w/me, I really thought I was screwed.......I'll update my results of my upcoming cycle as soon as I start.

 

[curt2go]

So what you ar saying is that when making a fina mix without washing the ester off(just crushing them up). You have to add about 10ml of distilled water to make the solution work... Or do you have to still get the ph to 7.7 and then add the distilled water????? Let me know.. talk to ya..

 

[fullycovered]

I believe it's both, as the pH level was not in the proper range when I just went w/the crushed fina pellets, which was where the lye came in.......and the water was added later to counteract the cellulose in the fina pellets(the binders).

 

[pogue]

I thought the lye was supposed to remove the ester? That is what the syno reciepe calls for. Alcohol and lye, one of them removes the estrodiol, but I don't know which.

I'm going to try this same thing soon, so keep us updated fullycovered.

 

[SteveDFW]

The lye (sodium hydroxide) removes the ester and also removes the estradiol in the Syn H.

 

[pogue]

So what is the methanol for? Just to dissolve it?

Does the lye also remove the ester from fina?

 

[Chemo]

So what went wrong to begin with and how do we stop it in the future?

First, I suspected that the addition of unseparated pellets (with binders) caused a drop in pH from 7.3 down to slightly below neutral.  Remember that pH is not a measurement of the H+ ion concentration but rather a metric for the ACTIVITY.  This takes into account the ionic atmosphere (other things dissolved).  So...say a T-1 Pro bottle...it has EVERYTHING already in solution and the pH is already adjusted before it is shipped.  I may adjust future T-gel batches to a pH of 7.7 before releasing in anticipation that someone may want to add something to it   Seriously, this should drop back into range after adding powders or pellets.

If you have received a bottle and have similiar experiences please consider checking the pH as this is the most likely culprit.  The lotion consistency is best maintained from 7.2-7.4 pH.

Once we confirmed that the pH was in an acceptable range (it is better to be on the alkaline side than acidic) we had to look for other options.  For an application specific topic, the addition of raw pellets to the gel will most likely leach the glycerol from the carbomer and decrease its effectiveness at gelling (the stratification that was seen).  To correct this simply add a few mL of glycerol or PG...maybe 5 total would have worked here...and it should estabish the lotion consistency again.  In the absence of the preferred ingredients PLAIN WATER will work but may take more volume for the same effect.  For instance, we had to add 10 mL water when 5 of glycerol would have done the same.  De-ionized, distilled, then purified water is preferred in that order if need be.

fullycovered, thank you for bearing with me during the PM tag but I'm glad we had a chance to work this through.  For all the bros that follow learn from this...expect it...know how to deal with it if it happens.

Chemo

 

[Chemo]

Originally posted by pogue
So what is the methanol for? Just to dissolve it?

Does the lye also remove the ester from fina?

The methanol is a solvent and the sodium hydroxide (Lye) will also saponify the ester for fina.

Chemo 

 

[Dwight Schrute]

I warned up the Ph Gel in a water bath, added 10g fina crushed pellets to the solution and it mixed just fine. No problems whatsoever.

 

[curt2go]

Hey Chemo is it going to be a problem since my gel has no carbomer?? Talk to ya..

 

[Chemo]

Originally posted by curt2go
Hey Chemo is it going to be a problem since my gel has no carbomer?? Talk to ya..

Shouldn't be...just some lotion recipe blues

I'm working on another recipe that should alleviate this for the US customers.

Chemo

 

[curt2go]

Heheheh. Keep up the good work.. Talk to ya..

 

[hamper19]

sorry for being stupid, but im still a little confused.

 

Im about to do the same thing, with 6 grams fina/ 5 grams 4ad

 

do you have to had the lye AND the water if there is a serparation issue or just the water/PG.

 

Thanks

 

h19

 

[fullycovered]

You need to see how it happens for you, put the powders into the bottle and shake, see what happens...

Test the pH level, if it isn't in range you will need the lye.

when you get it into the desired range and it still separates, then the water will be needed.

 

[pogue]

are you running your cycle yet fullycovered? if so, hows it going?

 

[fullycovered]

Pogue---check the cycle info page for a thread "Started my cycle today".

 

[hamper19]

thanks man..gonna check out your cycle stats now..

 

h19

 

[Bean]

why not seperate the pellets from their binders/glues first and then mix it?

mix with a full bottle of heet(methanol); let them soak for an hour or so; let them completely dissolve

take methanol solution; pour through a coffee filter... squeeze filter and get the rest of the methanol out...

mix methanol solution with 500ml of distilled water... it will turn white milky... let it sit for a while; it will clump up

pour resulting solution through another coffee filter; and rinse several times...

the powder you have in the 2nd filter should be pure trenbolone acetate (still has the ester)

 

[hamper19]

Originally posted by Bean
why not seperate the pellets from their binders/glues first and then mix it?

mix with a full bottle of heet(methanol); let them soak for an hour or so; let them completely dissolve

take methanol solution; pour through a coffee filter... squeeze filter and get the rest of the methanol out...

mix methanol solution with 500ml of distilled water... it will turn white milky... let it sit for a while; it will clump up

pour resulting solution through another coffee filter; and rinse several times...

the powder you have in the 2nd filter should be pure trenbolone acetate (still has the ester)

 

I would think people would hesitate doing this due to the fact your yields of pure TA might would vary.  You would never know how much actual TA got into your gel/spray...well unless you tested it, but most of us can't do that anyway. 

 

h19

 

[CNcurl90s44]

where would one obtain this fina?

 

[hamper19]

Originally posted by CNcurl90s44
where would one obtain this fina?

 

from a farmer or just search the web for synovex or finaplex

h19

 

[Chemo]

Originally posted by Bean
why not seperate the pellets from their binders/glues first and then mix it?

mix with a full bottle of heet(methanol); let them soak for an hour or so; let them completely dissolve

take methanol solution; pour through a coffee filter... squeeze filter and get the rest of the methanol out...

mix methanol solution with 500ml of distilled water... it will turn white milky... let it sit for a while; it will clump up

pour resulting solution through another coffee filter; and rinse several times...

the powder you have in the 2nd filter should be pure trenbolone acetate (still has the ester)

If one were to do this method of separating the binders it may be of value to add a tablespoon of saturated sodium hydroxide solution to the alcohol extract and saponify the ester. 

Also, use a Whatmann filter instead of a coffee filter...

Chemo

 

[Bean]

If one were to do this method of separating the binders it may be of value to add a tablespoon of saturated sodium hydroxide solution to the alcohol extract and saponify the ester. 

Also, use a Whatmann filter instead of a coffee filter...

Chemo

chemo, if i'm doing this to ah, have a powder ready to create an injectable oil for my cows; would the NaOH be useful too?

 

[Chemo]

Originally posted by Bean
chemo, if i'm doing this to ah, have a powder ready to create an injectable oil for my cows; would the NaOH be useful too?

The NaOH is used to saponify, or remove, the ester thereby making it easier to absorb transdermally.  If the powder is ready for an injectable prep I would NOT remove the ester since you will need it!

Chemo

 

[Judo Tom]

what would the difference be between using a syringe filter and a coffee filter???