back training

[sreed11]

Well freakin a i just feel like my back size is awful to get straight to the point. My back day is the last part of my split, it's on friday and it looks like this. Although it honestly varies a lot just judging on how i feel which is like every workout i do.

Week 1 (friday)
Deads
30 strict a$$ pull ups
Close grip row or one armed
Lat pull downs, depending on how i feel after pulls ups i'll vary my grip.
W L's with kettle bell (for posterior delts mainly)
Bent lateral raises if my delts dont feel good enough.

Week 2 (friday)
Hang cleans (never have done cleans before so i'm tryin to get forms down to go to just full cleans)
Lat pull down
Barbell row (sometimes one harm barbell rows. those are fun)
pullups grip varies on how i feel

 

[eggplant21]

I would recommend a couple of things:

1. Really practice using your back and leaving your arms out of every movement. Squeeze really tight at the top of each movement.

2. Try using lifting straps if you haven't already. When I switched to using straps my back really took off.

3. Rotate in t-bar rows every once in a while and do them with you body at a 45 degree angle. This will really place the focus on the lower latissimus that forms the christmas tree.

4. Try doing reverse grips on rows and pulldowns. I started do this after reading about Dorian Yates. I find that I can do more weight and squeeze more. I added much width to my back through reverse grip pulldowns and I find them to stimulate more muscle fibers and create even more width than wide grip pulldowns.

5. Add in some heavy negatives on a few exercises. This is not applicable to barbell rows, t-bar rows,or deads, but every thing else is fair game.

6. And finally you might move your back day to a day following a day of rest, or two. This will make sure that you get the most out of your back day.

Train hard and train smart and your back will grow. Good Luck.

 

[sreed11]

I actually have straps haha i just dont know how to use them haha. I've heard a lot of people dont like to use straps cause it kills your forearm strength and they just consider it cheating.

I cant paint a picture of what you meant with the negatives besides those exercises. With the negatives do you mean slow tempo or just have somebody help me with the concentric and then do the eccentric on my own.

Maybe i'll switch back to monday after two days of rest.

I do switch to reverse grip a good amount. But instead of using the wide grip i'll hit that up.

Thanks a lot for the help

 

[Rodja]

You should do some form of deads, either full or rack, every week. They are king for mass along with BB Rows. Hang cleans are mainly for traps and hips, but they cannot replace deadlifts. Also, doing dynamic stretching or DC stretching is great to increase the microtrauma and subsequent hypertrophy.

 

[eggplant21]

I actually have straps haha i just dont know how to use them haha. I've heard a lot of people dont like to use straps cause it kills your forearm strength and they just consider it cheating.

I cant paint a picture of what you meant with the negatives besides those exercises. With the negatives do you mean slow tempo or just have somebody help me with the concentric and then do the eccentric on my own.

Maybe i'll switch back to monday after two days of rest.

I do switch to reverse grip a good amount. But instead of using the wide grip i'll hit that up.

Thanks a lot for the help

The straps not only help you hold the weight when your grip wears out, they help assure that you are not over using ancillary muscle groups on back lifts.

For negatives I meant have a partner help you on the concentric and do slow negatives.

And the stretching from the above post is a very good idea as well.

 

[sreed11]

You should do some form of deads, either full or rack, every week. They are king for mass along with BB Rows. Hang cleans are mainly for traps and hips, but they cannot replace deadlifts. Also, doing dynamic stretching or DC stretching is great to increase the microtrauma and subsequent hypertrophy.

Ya i wasn't actually using them as a substitute, well i guess not purposely but if i look at my workout i really was. Truth is i just need to man up and do deads, bb rows, and cleans together. I'm not familiar with DC stretching but i'll look it up. Thanks rodja

 

[sreed11]

The straps not only help you hold the weight when your grip wears out, they help assure that you are not over using ancillary muscle groups on back lifts.

For negatives I meant have a partner help you on the concentric and do slow negatives.

And the stretching from the above post is a very good idea as well.

What workouts would you suggest doing negatives on?

 

[eggplant21]

What workouts would you suggest doing negatives on?

I would do some negatives every other week. My personal favorite is doing sets of only eccentric reverse grip pullups. You can really load up the weight (if you have a way to do weighted pullups) and it creates a tremendous amount of muscle stimulation. I would do one or two sets of 5 every other week.

 

[Thixotrope]

This rountine helped me out of slump once:

Monday-Deadlifts, 3 pyramided sets, 8 reps per set
BB Rows, 3 pyramided sets, 10 reps per set
T-Bar, 3 pyramided sets, 8-10 reps per set

Thursday-Front pulldown, 3 sets, 10 reps
Back pulldown, 3 sets, 10 reps
Low cable rows, 3 sets 10 reps

I worked all other bodyparts once a week while doing this and my back really beefed up. Monday is more of a thickness workout and thursday is more for width. Thursday's front pulldowns improve lat width/spread while the back pulldowns force more work out of your rhomboid/traps/teres area.

The lower volume affords you twice a week bombardment of your back so as to not overtrain.

 

[sreed11]

This rountine helped me out of slump once:

Monday-Deadlifts, 3 pyramided sets, 8 reps per set
BB Rows, 3 pyramided sets, 10 reps per set
T-Bar, 3 pyramided sets, 8-10 reps per set

Thursday-Front pulldown, 3 sets, 10 reps
Back pulldown, 3 sets, 10 reps
Low cable rows, 3 sets 10 reps

I worked all other bodyparts once a week while doing this and my back really beefed up. Monday is more of a thickness workout and thursday is more for width. Thursday's front pulldowns improve lat width/spread while the back pulldowns force more work out of your rhomboid/traps/teres area.

The lower volume affords you twice a week bombardment of your back so as to not overtrain.

How do you consider it to be significant to your workout to do front and back pulldown when isn't it pretty much just working out the same muslce group and aren't back pulldowns injury prone? I've been told many times it was a big :nono:

 

[Rodja]

How do you consider it to be significant to your workout to do front and back pulldown when isn't it pretty much just working out the same muslce group and aren't back pulldowns injury prone? I've been told many times it was a big :nono:

They're rough on the rotator cuffs and leave the shoulder vulnerable to impingements.

 

[Thixotrope]

How do you consider it to be significant to your workout to do front and back pulldown when isn't it pretty much just working out the same muslce group and aren't back pulldowns injury prone? I've been told many times it was a big :nono:

They work the same general area but stress different individual muscles like I explained. What you're implying is almost akin to saying that squats and leg presses shouldn't be done together. Front pulldowns stress the lats more directly while back pulldowns stress the rhomboids/lower traps/teres muscles in the upper mid back. It's basic kinesiology. I actually came up with this workout from an old modified Ronnie Coleman workout in a 1999 or 2000 issue of Flex.

Also, it is true that back pulldowns put unnecessary torque on your shoulder girdle but they got me through a slump a few years ago. I saw concrete improvments from doing them so I thought it was worth mentioning.

You may not be flexible enough to do them or plain hate doing them. Squats and Deads have a LOT more potential for injury than back pulldowns. It was merely a suggestion from personal experience that I thought you could benefit from. I made gains on this workout for over 2 years until I finally changed it. My back is now by strongest bodypart by far.

I'm not trying to sound like an ******* but you can either try it or don't. Doesn't matter to me. :trout:

 

[sreed11]

They work the same general area but stress different individual muscles like I explained. What you're implying is almost akin to saying that squats and leg presses shouldn't be done together. Front pulldowns stress the lats more directly while back pulldowns stress the rhomboids/lower traps/teres muscles in the upper mid back. It's basic kinesiology. I actually came up with this workout from an old modified Ronnie Coleman workout in a 1999 or 2000 issue of Flex.

Also, it is true that back pulldowns put unnecessary torque on your shoulder girdle but they got me through a slump a few years ago. I saw concrete improvments from doing them so I thought it was worth mentioning.

You may not be flexible enough to do them or plain hate doing them. Squats and Deads have a LOT more potential for injury than back pulldowns. It was merely a suggestion from personal experience that I thought you could benefit from. I made gains on this workout for over 2 years until I finally changed it. My back is now by strongest bodypart by far.

I'm not trying to sound like an ******* but you can either try it or don't. Doesn't matter to me. :trout:

Ok sounds good. I wasn't bashing you at all bro. Thanks a lot for the help.

 

[datBtrue]

I actually have straps haha i just dont know how to use them haha. I've heard a lot of people dont like to use straps cause it kills your forearm strength and they just consider it cheating.

So let me get this straight...you use your back routine to build forearm strength?

Why don't you use your back routine to build your back? That requires supporting those areas that fatigue before your back...including the forearms (which means judicious use of straps & placement of the bicep in the strongest position when you pull).

Forearms require a lot of blood to grow. It is a mistake to think the majority of people will get MASSIVE forearms from gripping a bar.

Cheating? What do you mean by this? I'll bet you dollars to donuts that you use too much weight when you work back...that your tempo is too fast...that you don't initiate movements with a squeeze of the back...etc.

You've been given great advice in this thread by all...so go prioritize your back training.

Ain't nothin to it but to do it.

 

[sreed11]

So let me get this straight...you use your back routine to build forearm strength?

Why don't you use your back routine to build your back? That requires supporting those areas that fatigue before your back...including the forearms (which means judicious use of straps & placement of the bicep in the strongest position when you pull).

Forearms require a lot of blood to grow. It is a mistake to think the majority of people will get MASSIVE forearms from gripping a bar.

Cheating? What do you mean by this? I'll bet you dollars to donuts that you use too much weight when you work back...that your tempo is too fast...that you don't initiate movements with a squeeze of the back...etc.

You've been given great advice in this thread by all...so go prioritize your back training.

Ain't nothin to it but to do it.

After i read what i wrote i thought about it and thought i was a moron haha with the whole losing forearm strength.

I definitely was using too much weight before and pumping them out fast. For a little while now i've just started going slower and more controlled. Thanks for the help i'll definitely keep TUT and control in mind for back, start using straps and hopefully see some progress over time while sticking to deads, bb rows, pull ups, trying negatives, and switching up my grips. Thanks guys.
Any other advice is greatly appreciated.

 

[sreed11]

Hit back today and it felt AMAZING! thanks for everything guys. I didn't wanna stop but i had to eventually cause my forearms just got so pumped and tired i couldn't do it anymore. I know that sounds funny but i was doing reverse grip pulldowns and my forearms started killing me in a good way but i was doneskies. My back felt great though, the best pump i've ever had. Thanks a lot and i'll keep at it

 

[RenegadeRows]

I love working back because it's my weak point. I've been doing pulldowns religiously for a while now. My back is wide, I have a nice V-Taper; however it's not as thick as I'd like. Therefore I've been focusing on rows of all kinds, including DB, BB and inverted. I also am focusing on deads.

 

[sreed11]

Ya it's my favorite now too especially because it is my weakpoint but also because it was such an amazing workout. I walked out drenched in sweat. I'm not a very huge sweater and honestly dont think i've had that intense of a workout ever in my life with weights. EVER.

 

[datBtrue]

I love working back because it's my weak point. I've been doing pulldowns religiously for a while now. My back is wide, I have a nice V-Taper; however it's not as thick as I'd like. Therefore I've been focusing on rows of all kinds, including DB, BB and inverted. I also am focusing on deads.

Thats what I like to hear!

I think the back really benefits from vareity... it seems like it adapts or becomes neurologically efficient to the same way of working back so new angles and attack modes work well.

RR whats "inverted" mean?

 

[datBtrue]

Ya it's my favorite now too especially because it is my weakpoint but also because it was such an amazing workout. I walked out drenched in sweat. I'm not a very huge sweater and honestly dont think i've had that intense of a workout ever in my life with weights. EVER.

Its not going to be a weakpoint for very long w/ that attitude my man. I love to see your enthusiasm! Man I wish I could see that attitude more at my gym...that sh1ts infectious and motivating.

 

[sreed11]

Its not going to be a weakpoint for very long w/ that attitude my man. I love to see your enthusiasm! Man I wish I could see that attitude more at my gym...that sh1ts infectious and motivating.

Ya man definitely. After my last two sets of deads everybody was looking at me cause i was sweating, grunting, and breathing heavily haha. And to them it looks like a lot of weight. I pulled 275 for 10 which i was more proud of then my 315 for 5. Cant wait till next back day. I'm freakin sore as hell today but i love it. this is what i went for though. good?

deads
pull ups
reverse grip t bar rows
hang cleans (needed a break from back and needed to do traps)
reverse grip pull downs

I did every exercise with strict form, slow and controlled, and made sure i squeezed or contracted my back muscles as tight as i could at the isometric(? not sure if that's it) hold of the workout. example: when the t bar was closest to my chest. I cut my pulls ups short and only did 20 in three sets, i felt just dead after deadlifts. how ironic. And then i felt like reverse grip pulldowns was sh!tty too seeing as how i had to stop cause my forearms were completely pumped and had had enough. I'll just have to keep working at it i guess. i found it hard to incorporate the straps into my pull ups and lat pull downs. DIdn't really know how to make it work.

 

[datBtrue]

Ya man definitely. After my last two sets of deads everybody was looking at me cause i was sweating, grunting, and breathing heavily haha. And to them it looks like a lot of weight. I pulled 275 for 10 which i was more proud of then my 315 for 5. Cant wait till next back day. I'm freakin sore as hell today but i love it. this is what i went for though. good?

deads
pull ups
reverse grip t bar rows
hang cleans (needed a break from back and needed to do traps)
reverse grip pull downs

I did every exercise with strict form, slow and controlled, and made sure i squeezed or contracted my back muscles as tight as i could at the isometric(? not sure if that's it) hold of the workout. example: when the t bar was closest to my chest. I cut my pulls ups short and only did 20 in three sets, i felt just dead after deadlifts. how ironic. And then i felt like reverse grip pulldowns was sh!tty too seeing as how i had to stop cause my forearms were completely pumped and had had enough. I'll just have to keep working at it i guess. i found it hard to incorporate the straps into my pull ups and lat pull downs. DIdn't really know how to make it work.

You might want to alternate the priority of deads. One workout do them last. The next do them first. Deads are tough on the central nervous system ...sometimes doing them first takes away from your other back exercises. Just food for thought.

Nobody else seems to like hook straps ...but I love 'em. No need to waste time wrapping...just hook and go.

 

[RenegadeRows]

Thats what I like to hear!

I think the back really benefits from vareity... it seems like it adapts or becomes neurologically efficient to the same way of working back so new angles and attack modes work well.

RR whats "inverted" mean?

It's a great bodyweight exercise for back.

 

[eggplant21]

Ya man definitely. After my last two sets of deads everybody was looking at me cause i was sweating, grunting, and breathing heavily haha. And to them it looks like a lot of weight. I pulled 275 for 10 which i was more proud of then my 315 for 5. Cant wait till next back day. I'm freakin sore as hell today but i love it. this is what i went for though. good?

deads
pull ups
reverse grip t bar rows
hang cleans (needed a break from back and needed to do traps)
reverse grip pull downs

I did every exercise with strict form, slow and controlled, and made sure i squeezed or contracted my back muscles as tight as i could at the isometric(? not sure if that's it) hold of the workout. example: when the t bar was closest to my chest. I cut my pulls ups short and only did 20 in three sets, i felt just dead after deadlifts. how ironic. And then i felt like reverse grip pulldowns was sh!tty too seeing as how i had to stop cause my forearms were completely pumped and had had enough. I'll just have to keep working at it i guess. i found it hard to incorporate the straps into my pull ups and lat pull downs. DIdn't really know how to make it work.

Hook straps might be a good idea if you don't have a training partner to help you with strapping up on exercises such as reverse grip pulldowns.

 

[sreed11]

k i'll definitely look into hook straps. And yes i agree about the deads taking away from my other lifts. I think this next week i may try rack deads at the end of my workout.

 

[datBtrue]

...I think this next week i may try rack deads at the end of my workout.

Good idea. You'll notice the difference right away ...for the most part your legs are taken out of the lift so your CNS won't be as taxed. ...good to alternate deads...