Ectomorph in Need of Help

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by AlexParty View Post
    Try doing 4 sets of pyramid.

    Pork chops instead of chicken.... how are you liking that? Does it give the same protein profile?
    Pork chops are great! I basically just BBQ them early in the morning...takes less than 20 minutes, no cleanup, and it tastes great. I'm guessing by protein profile you mean grams of protein/chop? There are 25g/pork chop.

    As for workout, I've started Dorian Yates HIT program. I found an article saying it's great for skinny guys with a high metabolism or those coming off a high-volume workout (e.g. GVT)! I'm not quite used to it yet as it takes a lot of mental motivation but sore enough regardless.

    What keeps you going anyways AlexParty? I'm finding myself losing motivation lately!


  2. Okay so I just weighed myself after already having 2 meals (I woke up at 1pm) and I'm at 195 pounds. In other words, I've basically lost about 3 pounds...aka I'm pissed at myself.

    So I've decided to turn this thread into my log also...I think that by posting my progress on here it will motivate me to work harder and not be lazy.

    I'm going to start making changes by going to bed at a good time (i.e. no later than 1am) and getting up at a good time (i.e. no later than 10am).

    Anyways, I'll be heading to the gym at 7 tonight so I'll start logging tonight...weights and all.

    Cheers
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by DaveWalton View Post
    Okay so I just weighed myself after already having 2 meals (I woke up at 1pm) and I'm at 195 pounds. In other words, I've basically lost about 3 pounds...aka I'm pissed at myself.
    Try to be consistant about weighing your self but dont go overboard. Unless you are in a cutting phase getting ready for the Olympia I would think once a week is good enough. Try to keep the conditions as static as possible, same day of the week, same time of the day, same scale (most important IMO) and so on. Your weight is going to fluctuate quite a bit, it is natural. I have seen mine fluctuate as much as 6lbs in 24hrs. If you are checking it too often it is going to lead you to making hasty decisions and changes in your diet/routine that may not be neccessary. When I went through a major re-comp (-46lbs) I became obssessed with the scale, often checking it 2-3 times a day and making daily adjustments. I never gave my body a chance to catch up so I ended up playing yo-yo with my diet. Not a good choice physically or mentally.
    Have you set up a diet plan? Are you following it? If you are losing weight or not gaining it really boils down to you are not eating enough. Setting up a diet plan will help you track your calories accurately and keep you from over estamating your intake, which is usually the problem for some one like us.

  4. Quote Originally Posted by DaveWalton View Post
    Pork chops are great! I basically just BBQ them early in the morning...takes less than 20 minutes, no cleanup, and it tastes great. I'm guessing by protein profile you mean grams of protein/chop? There are 25g/pork chop.

    As for workout, I've started Dorian Yates HIT program. I found an article saying it's great for skinny guys with a high metabolism or those coming off a high-volume workout (e.g. GVT)! I'm not quite used to it yet as it takes a lot of mental motivation but sore enough regardless.

    What keeps you going anyways AlexParty? I'm finding myself losing motivation lately!
    We all lose motivation and when you do you have to remind yourself what you're doing this for and how long you've come. You want to better your body, be fit, strong and different. This is what you like to do. I don't think anyone of us wants to be skinny, therefore we set certain goals. Trust me it's so tough sometimes. I was in that mode for a few days but snapped out of it. It's only normal. My motivation is the fact that I tried 3 times to gain size, when I didn't see fast results I stopped my diet and workout. Now that is my personal motivation, not to let that happen again. I hope it motivates you enough to know when you stop you screw yourself because eventually you'll want to gain size again and then you'll realize you lose a lot of time because you stopped. If you would have kept going you wouldn't have to work as hard now. Hope that helps buddy.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by AlexParty View Post
    We all lose motivation and when you do you have to remind yourself what you're doing this for and how long you've come. You want to better your body, be fit, strong and different. This is what you like to do. I don't think anyone of us wants to be skinny, therefore we set certain goals. Trust me it's so tough sometimes. I was in that mode for a few days but snapped out of it. It's only normal. My motivation is the fact that I tried 3 times to gain size, when I didn't see fast results I stopped my diet and workout. Now that is my personal motivation, not to let that happen again. I hope it motivates you enough to know when you stop you screw yourself because eventually you'll want to gain size again and then you'll realize you lose a lot of time because you stopped. If you would have kept going you wouldn't have to work as hard now. Hope that helps buddy.
    Good points Alex.
    I know this is going to sound a little corny but stay with me.
    If you can get your hands on the book Burn the Fat Feed the Muscle by Tom Venuto read the first chapter at least. The first chapter covers goal setting, affirmations, and the mental aspects of this. Sit down and build you a set of reasonable goals. Start with both a set of daily and 90 day goals. Daily can be something like getting to bed on time, get up early, not missing work outs or meals, setting up and following a meal plan. Things you can accomplish on a daily schedule. 90 day goals can be to gain 12lbs (1-2lb weekly gains are about the max for a natural), increase your strength by 25%, or lose a 6%bf (.5-1% weekly). Try actually writing them down and read them twice a day. This gives you the affirmation of WHY you are doing this and will help keep you motivated. It becomes repetitous and second nature.
    Again I know it sounds a little crazy but it truely does work. The difference between the average hardworking joe in the gym and the elite athlete often come down to the fact that the elite guy has this mind to muscle connection developed. Professional athletes talk all the time about how they play the tape of them making the shot/throw/putt over and over in their head. Professional body builders often describe focusing on the individual muscle during a lift and visualizing it growing.
    Try it with an open mind for a full 21 days and see if it doesnt help the motivation!
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by dawaro View Post
    Good points Alex.
    I know this is going to sound a little corny but stay with me.
    If you can get your hands on the book Burn the Fat Feed the Muscle by Tom Venuto read the first chapter at least. The first chapter covers goal setting, affirmations, and the mental aspects of this. Sit down and build you a set of reasonable goals. Start with both a set of daily and 90 day goals. Daily can be something like getting to bed on time, get up early, not missing work outs or meals, setting up and following a meal plan. Things you can accomplish on a daily schedule. 90 day goals can be to gain 12lbs (1-2lb weekly gains are about the max for a natural), increase your strength by 25%, or lose a 6%bf (.5-1% weekly). Try actually writing them down and read them twice a day. This gives you the affirmation of WHY you are doing this and will help keep you motivated. It becomes repetitous and second nature.
    Again I know it sounds a little crazy but it truely does work. The difference between the average hardworking joe in the gym and the elite athlete often come down to the fact that the elite guy has this mind to muscle connection developed. Professional athletes talk all the time about how they play the tape of them making the shot/throw/putt over and over in their head. Professional body builders often describe focusing on the individual muscle during a lift and visualizing it growing.
    Try it with an open mind for a full 21 days and see if it doesnt help the motivation!
    Will definitely try that. I'd have to pick the book up from eBay or something but my motivation has been dropping too. I've been bulking and I hate it, Gaining lean muscle mass from my experience is the hardest thing to do, it's so much easier when you bulk then cut. So right now I actually can't wait to cut down big time but that's in two months so it's a little hard but motivation and consistency are key.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by AlexParty View Post
    Will definitely try that. I'd have to pick the book up from eBay or something but my motivation has been dropping too. I've been bulking and I hate it, Gaining lean muscle mass from my experience is the hardest thing to do, it's so much easier when you bulk then cut. So right now I actually can't wait to cut down big time but that's in two months so it's a little hard but motivation and consistency are key.
    That is one of the reasons I am really enjoying this book so far. Unlike a lot of writers he states in the very beginning that unless you are chemically enhanced or a genetic freak it is unrealistic to expect to both gain muscle mass and cut fat at the same time. His approach is very straight forward and makes a lot of sense the way he presents it.

  8. Great Advice thanks guys! I will definitely look into focusing more on the whole mind/muscle connection.

    AlexParty: You are absolutely right. I didn't spend all this money on food and supplements and all this time eating and lifting to give up now.

    As for my workout log for Thursday night:

    Chest Workout

    Incline Dumbbell Press, 2 sets x 8 reps - 80s

    Hammer Strength Seated Bench Presses, 2 sets x 8 reps - 215

    Incline Dumbbell Flyes, 2 sets x 8 reps - 50s

    Cable Crossovers, 2 sets x 10 reps - 40 x 2

    Biceps Workout

    Incline DB Curls, 2 sets x 8 reps - 40s

    EZ Curl Barbell Curls, 2 sets x 8 reps - 90

    Nautilus Curls, 2 sets x 8 reps - 60 (dead for some reason by this point...and don't like nautilus curls...haven't perfected the form or technique)

    All in all pretty good workout. Chest and biceps pretty sore today. I need to work on my motivation in the gym more though. Going from GVT with a lighter weight to this HIT program I find I need a LOT more intensity...something I need to work on. I personally think I should be lifting a lot heavier.

    Friday (today): Off day...terrible for meals. Had an interview this morning and was exhausted coming home so I slept the day away and missed a couple meals.

    Starting legs tomorrow with a good nights rest and plenty of pork chops and chicken ready to BBQ.

  9. Monday workout = Delts, Traps, and Triceps (ala Yates)

    For every exercise I did a double drop-set. Is this too much?

    Delt and Trap Workout

    Dumbbell Military Press, 2 sets x 8-12 reps - 55s, 45s, 35s

    Seated Lateral Raises, 2 sets x 8-10 reps - 20s, 15s, 12s

    One Arm Cable Laterals, 2 sets x 8-10 reps - 20x2, 15x2, 10x2

    Dumbbell Shrugs, 1 set x 10-12 reps - 75s, 55s, 45s

    Triceps Workout

    Triceps Pushdown, 1 set x 8-12 reps - 90, 70, 50

    Lying EZ Curl Extensions, 1 set x 8-10 reps - 55 pounds (at this point the workout was a joke...I was in a rush to meet my gf)

    All in all it was a terrible workout. The first two exercises for shoulders were intense and great, but the rest was awful because I was late to meet my girlfriend and had to rush the entire thing. Hopefully tomorrow will be alot better.

  10. Dave, I'm a die hard ecto and what's really worked well for me is keeping food, even little amounts, in my stomach the whole time I'm awake. I do mean food, not donuts or sugary [email protected] I'm not convinced that the total intake is nearly as important as just spreading it out real wide. Kinda like putting fertilizer on your lawn. I've never really been convinced that eating a lot at one sitting allows for full digestion and utilization of nutrients. Also, most younger lifters I know do not get enough sleep. This is when you heal and grow the best. So many of the vets around here say, "eat, lift, sleep." The only thing I would add to that is Don't Overtrain! Be fully recovered before you go tear down your muscles in the gym. That recovery time is different for everyone, but I think ectomorphs take longer to recover than mesomorphs. Because we're so frustrated (and usually intense personalities) we want to blast right back to the gym before we start to lose anything.

    Ok sorry for the rant. Best of luck lil' brotha!

  11. Quote Originally Posted by jpk View Post
    Dave, I'm a die hard ecto and what's really worked well for me is keeping food, even little amounts, in my stomach the whole time I'm awake. I do mean food, not donuts or sugary [email protected] I'm not convinced that the total intake is nearly as important as just spreading it out real wide. Kinda like putting fertilizer on your lawn. I've never really been convinced that eating a lot at one sitting allows for full digestion and utilization of nutrients. Also, most younger lifters I know do not get enough sleep. This is when you heal and grow the best. So many of the vets around here say, "eat, lift, sleep." The only thing I would add to that is Don't Overtrain! Be fully recovered before you go tear down your muscles in the gym. That recovery time is different for everyone, but I think ectomorphs take longer to recover than mesomorphs. Because we're so frustrated (and usually intense personalities) we want to blast right back to the gym before we start to lose anything.

    Ok sorry for the rant. Best of luck lil' brotha!
    I totally agree but I find it hard for an Ecto who trains only 3 times a week to ever over train unless he stays in the gym for 2 hours doing 4 exercises each body part sort of thing but if you're looking from week to week you train your body part once a week. If you're eating right and getting enough recovery from your glutamines, vitamins, rest/sleep etc.. than you should almost always be completely healed the the next round.

  12. Quote Originally Posted by AlexParty View Post
    I totally agree but I find it hard for an Ecto who trains only 3 times a week to ever over train unless he stays in the gym for 2 hours doing 4 exercises each body part sort of thing but if you're looking from week to week you train your body part once a week. If you're eating right and getting enough recovery from your glutamines, vitamins, rest/sleep etc.. than you should almost always be completely healed the the next round.
    Part of the Ecto problem may be from limiting body parts to once a week. The program I have benefited from the most was a 3x full body routine. When I was on a 5-day split I saw little if any results.
    Here is an excert from the HST website on training frequency:
    "In order for the loading to result in significant hypertrophy, the stimulus must be applied with sufficient frequency to create a new "environment", as opposed to seemingly random and acute assaults on the mechanical integrity of the tissue. The downside of taking a week of rest every time you load a muscle is that many of the acute responses to training like increased protein synthesis, prostaglandins, IGF-1 levels, and mRNA levels all return to normal in about 36 hours. So, you spend 2 days growing and half a week in a semi-anticatabolic state returning to normal (some people call this recovery), when research shows us that recovery can take place unabated even if a the muscle is loaded again in 48 hours. So true anabolism from loading only lasts 2 days at best once the load is removed. The rest of the time you are simply balancing nitrogen retention without adding to it."

  13. Quote Originally Posted by dawaro View Post
    Part of the Ecto problem may be from limiting body parts to once a week. The program I have benefited from the most was a 3x full body routine. When I was on a 5-day split I saw little if any results.
    Here is an excert from the HST website on training frequency:
    "In order for the loading to result in significant hypertrophy, the stimulus must be applied with sufficient frequency to create a new "environment", as opposed to seemingly random and acute assaults on the mechanical integrity of the tissue. The downside of taking a week of rest every time you load a muscle is that many of the acute responses to training like increased protein synthesis, prostaglandins, IGF-1 levels, and mRNA levels all return to normal in about 36 hours. So, you spend 2 days growing and half a week in a semi-anticatabolic state returning to normal (some people call this recovery), when research shows us that recovery can take place unabated even if a the muscle is loaded again in 48 hours. So true anabolism from loading only lasts 2 days at best once the load is removed. The rest of the time you are simply balancing nitrogen retention without adding to it."
    Great post! To be completely honest I haven't been enjoying Yates program at all! I find I have to motivate myself to get into the gym...and when I'm there it's a mental battle. I didn't have that problem at all with GVT. I think I will be switching to a HST program (I was looking into one anyways) as I completely agree with the one week recovery thing.

  14. Quote Originally Posted by DaveWalton View Post
    Great post! To be completely honest I haven't been enjoying Yates program at all! I find I have to motivate myself to get into the gym...and when I'm there it's a mental battle. I didn't have that problem at all with GVT. I think I will be switching to a HST program (I was looking into one anyways) as I completely agree with the one week recovery thing.
    I looked at the GVT when I was looking for something to phase into from a 5x5 cycle. I actually did it last week but did not like it at all. It is hard to describe but I felt more wore out than worked with the amount of reps involved and I didnt like the idea of training legs just once a week. I had looked into the HST before so I have decided to go that route. There is some information http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com

  15. Great post Dawaro. If you trained lets say Monday, Wednsday and Friday. The only real time where your in a semi-anticatabolic states only sunday?

  16. Quote Originally Posted by AlexParty View Post
    Great post Dawaro. If you trained lets say Monday, Wednsday and Friday. The only real time where your in a semi-anticatabolic states only sunday?
    That is the claim of their research. On the HST site it list the actual reference sources if you want to look into it further.
    While I do not claim to be any kind of expert on the subject, although I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express, it seems to make a lot of sense to me. While I was doing the 5x5 I was using a progressive loading scheme and most of the time I was able to increase my weight each workout even when hitting the same body parts 3x a week. I was a little sore at the beginning of some of the work outs but nothing that prevented the lifts or didnt ease after the warm-ups. The theory isnt really anything new. Powerlifters have been lifting multiple times a week forever. And the 5x5 popularized in the 70's by Bill Starr advocated full body work 3x a week. Even programs like Bill Phillips' Body for Life work body parts 2x a week. Bodybuilding is really the only group that I have seen that advocates a 5-7 days between body parts. Is it fact or fiction? I think that is something the individual has to try for himself and see what works for him.

  17. Today was my first day trying it out (hypertrophy specific training...I used the workout from this site..."What is the best HST workout?"). I worked out at my uncle's home gym so it was a bit of a pain in the ass having to switch all the weights around but all in all good workout. I noticed that for some exercises the tempo had to be slower than others for it to really burn and get the lactic acid flowing. All in all pretty decent...and really tiring!

    I doubted the 15s a little as the weight seems so little but when you go at a slower pace it really burns.

    I'll definitely keep you guys posted.

    Hey AlexParty...what program are you on anyways?

  18. Quote Originally Posted by DaveWalton View Post
    Today was my first day trying it out (hypertrophy specific training...I used the workout from this site..."What is the best HST workout?"). I worked out at my uncle's home gym so it was a bit of a pain in the ass having to switch all the weights around but all in all good workout. I noticed that for some exercises the tempo had to be slower than others for it to really burn and get the lactic acid flowing. All in all pretty decent...and really tiring!

    I doubted the 15s a little as the weight seems so little but when you go at a slower pace it really burns.

    I'll definitely keep you guys posted.

    Hey AlexParty...what program are you on anyways?
    No real program. I have my diet intact. When I go to the gym it's 3 times a week 2 body parts each time with 4 exercises. I usually lift as heavy as I can with little reps around 6-8. I'll do supersets depending on how I worked the body part out. I might try the GVT but I don't like staying in the gym for more than an hour and 30 minutes so I find the 4x4 is perfect.

  19. Quote Originally Posted by AlexParty View Post
    No real program. I have my diet intact. When I go to the gym it's 3 times a week 2 body parts each time with 4 exercises. I usually lift as heavy as I can with little reps around 6-8. I'll do supersets depending on how I worked the body part out. I might try the GVT but I don't like staying in the gym for more than an hour and 30 minutes so I find the 4x4 is perfect.
    GVT doesn't take longer than an hour because you only have 60 seconds between sets or 90 if you are doing supersets. It should take under 50 minutes.

  20. Quote Originally Posted by DaveWalton View Post
    GVT doesn't take longer than an hour because you only have 60 seconds between sets or 90 if you are doing supersets. It should take under 50 minutes.
    Than I shall give it a try
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