I CANNOT get my shoulders sore

[goslamacamel]

I can go really heavy on deadlifts or shrugs and get my traps destroyed for the next day or two. But my anterior, later, and posterior deltoids have never been sore to the best of my knowledge. My anterior deltoids are pretty big, and my posteriors are decent, but my laterals are like small bumps that are dwarfed by my anteriors. I've been doing heavy upright rows supersetted with light sets, lots of lateral raises, lots of experimental lightweight lateral deltoid isolation, but to absolutely no avail. I've even done 3 sets of lateral raises with 50 lb dumbbells started off with a jump and doing forced negative reps, but never even felt like I worked them the next day. I even did clean and presses with 160 for the first time ever in attempt to annihilate my shoulders, but of course no soreness and also no real growth. All other bodyparts I can make sore if I really try, and have no real problems forcing them to grow, but my lateral deltoids in particular are very stubborn. Any ideas? I've basically done all shoulder exercises I've ever heard of with high and low weight...

 

[pantera101]

My shoulders never get sore either,yet they are a strong point of my physique.You don't have to get sore to grow.I know it's like insurance,but it's not needed.I do bent laterals for rear delts,you have to do them just right to feel the rear shoulders working.

 

[Aggravated]

Do some moves that you do not normally do. I notice sometimes that if I over train I wont get sore either. Until I started working out with an IFBB pro I only got sore a couple times a week as well. You must squeeze through your rep, and flex between sets. Should work for sure!

 

[pantera101]

Do some moves that you do not normally do. I notice sometimes that if I over train I wont get sore either. Until I started working out with an IFBB pro I only got sore a couple times a week as well. You must squeeze through your rep, and flex between sets. Should work for sure!

I would feel to gay to flex in the gym.I do plenty of it in the mirror at home though

 

[jbono731]

What does your shoulder workout consist of right now?

 

[goslamacamel]

What does your shoulder workout consist of right now?

Changes every other week or so, but basically 3 maybe 4 of the following:

1) 3 sets of smith behind the neck presses sitting upright, working up to 155 lbs for 6 reps, then descending 10lbs at a time down to 125 for up to 12 reps depending how I'm doing that day.
2) 2 sets of clean and presses.
3) 3 sets of standing or seated arnold presses, sometimes alternating.
4) 3 sets of barbell upright rows working up to around 115 for 8-10.
5) Lots of descending weight sets with lateral raises, slightly bent forward to isolate the lateral deltoid.
6) Sometimes playing around with a machine if I have the energy.

If I do two of the heavier lifts in that list, I'll normally just do 3 of those routines. If I only do one of the heavier lifts there, I'll normally do 4 of those routines on a day dedicated to shoulders.

My problem is getting the lateral deltoid bigger, and whether it's a problem or not, getting any of my shoulder to be sore at all. My anterior deltoid looks like it's 3x as big as my lateral deltoid, and my posterior deltoid looks 2x as big as my lateral deltoid. I'm thinking my anatomy is somehow forcing my lateral deltoid to be almost covered up by the other two, but that sounds kind of weird.

 

[pantera101]

What does your shoulder workout consist of right now?

When i'm doing a split routine,hitting shoulders on their own day.it's
mil press db or bb
side raises
front raises
rear raises
shrugs
Reps are usually 6-12 but will go as low as 2(presses only)and as high as 20 sometimes,and usually 3-4 sets.I only change the reps and the order i do the execises in.I have been doing this for a long time,just like chest is benches with some flyes every now and then.I like to add variety with diferent reps,sets,breaks in between sets,and going from full body wo's to split routines.With a full body wo i only do presses.I had good shoulders before i started directly working them though,i guess from poor form on bench press.Even a jr high basketball picture of me had a little shape to them,skinny as hell,but with a little shape.

 

[jonny21]

5) Lots of descending weight sets with lateral raises, slightly bent forward to isolate the lateral deltoid.

Wouldn't leaning forward shift the focus more to the posterior deltoid?

I had some noticeable results compounding standing laterals with an exercise from Arnie's book. It is really more of a static exercise, no reps just holding weight for a specific time.

what you do is finish your set of laterals and then keep the weights about 8-12" from your hips/thighs, depends on how long your arms are Hold them there for at least 45 seconds but the longer the better.

 

[goslamacamel]

Wouldn't leaning forward shift the focus more to the posterior deltoid?

I had some noticeable results compounding standing laterals with an exercise from Arnie's book. It is really more of a static exercise, no reps just holding weight for a specific time.

what you do is finish your set of laterals and then keep the weights about 8-12" from your hips/thighs, depends on how long your arms are Hold them there for at least 45 seconds but the longer the better.

Well, normally if you stand perfectly straight up and do lateral raises, your anterior deltoid will get in to the movement at least a little depending on how strong it is. For me it steals a lot of the work from my lateral because of how much bigger the anterior is, so I slightly lean forward to make my lateral take the brunt of the work, but not leaned over enough to activate my posterior much at all.

 

[dawaro]

1) 3 sets of smith behind the neck presses sitting upright, working up to 155 lbs for 6 reps, then descending 10lbs at a time down to 125 for up to 12 reps depending how I'm doing that day.

I am no expert and god knows I do not have a set of cannon balls for shoulders but I have always been told not to go behind the back with shoulder exercises. Going behind the neck puts a lot of stress on the tendons and joint.

 

[ShakesAllDay]

I am no expert and god knows I do not have a set of cannon balls for shoulders but I have always been told not to go behind the back with shoulder exercises. Going behind the neck puts a lot of stress on the tendons and joint.

I never have understood the chicken wing exercises (aka behind the neck). It's painful just to watch. And, for some reason, it's always the pencil necks that are doing this.

No offense to you jacked mofos who do it... I just think you can do safer things w/ better results.

 

[goslamacamel]

I don't know, maybe its a bone structure thing. I never have any problems doing behind the head presses if its with a smith machine sitting down. Feels just as comfortable as a standard push press except with more isolation in my lateral deltoids. I think I have pretty flexible shoulders which probably explains a little.

 

[dlew308]

try some facepulls, those made me sore the next day

 

[pantera101]

I am no expert and god knows I do not have a set of cannon balls for shoulders but I have always been told not to go behind the back with shoulder exercises. Going behind the neck puts a lot of stress on the tendons and joint.

I have read that their good to do,yet dangerous.I also heard that if you try them and get any pain to avoid them,if not limit them.I tried them and loved doing them,i even held my head down as suggested to bring your arms forward a little more.That night i went to take my shirt off and felt a subtle yet sharp pain in shoulders,kind of like shoulder sockets,not muscle pain.This lasted for a couple days and i have not done them since.....prob 5-8 months ago.

 

[rugger48]

Some off the younger guys need to know longevity with shoulders is important. Always take care of your shoulders and follow proper form. Shoulder joint is one of the most flexable joints in the body, and if used improperly(behind the neck militaries,pulldowns behind the neck,etc) can lead to injury and permanent problems when you get older. I know you younger guys feel indestructable now, but believe me all the wear and tear you put your body through now will come to haunt you when your older.

 

[maynehood171]

I was told also by my ortho-doc and physical therapist that behind the neck exercise is dangerous, hard on the joints, ligaments, tendons...and pointless since we naturally have no range of motion that would allow us to benefit from such exercise...

 

[pantera101]

I was told also by my ortho-doc and physical therapist that behind the neck exercise is dangerous, hard on the joints, ligaments, tendons...and pointless since we naturally have no range of motion that would allow us to benefit from such exercise...

All doctors used to,and some still do,tell you that sq's are bad for you.Yet i have no knee issues and i sq ass to grass(2x a week right now).Also i have read that rehabing a knee consist of many variations of bending at the knee as a sq would do.Also some say going ass to grass is worse than paralell.Yet the knee is most unstable at a 90 degree angle.Thats why you see dr's and rehab people having someone lay on their back and bend their knees at 90 degrees to test for stability.Stopping at this point with 100's of pounds on your back seems to be worse than going down untill hams hit calves.Then these guys with "knee problems"do leg extensions :blink: Think about the mechanics of that execise and the stress that extensions put on your knee's.Rant over-this dr knew what he was talking about,but their is a advantage,the medial head gets targeted more than traditional presses.I say use db's with your arms out to your sides if you want followed with side raises,even supersetted if you want.

 

[goslamacamel]

You're fine doing awkward exercises as long as you build up to a larger weight from a very low weight gradually. It's not that the body "wasn't meant" to do the exercise, it's that without training the tendons and joints to do them, you're simply incapable. But the tendons and joints adapt to tons of weird movements eventually, just takes a bit longer than muscles and must be much more gradual.

 

[Thixotrope]

I never had a problem with my delts growing but they sure as hell never got the least bit sore. Your specific biomechanics may dictate the excercise you have been doing be manipulated until you stress the target muscle.

A good way to specifically target those pesky lateral heads is to incorporate one armed lateral raises into your routine.

Try alternating one workout with cables for 4 sets x 12-15 reps and the next workout use dumbbells for 4 pyramided sets for 25,15,10,6-8 reps respectively. That minor adjustment busted me through a major plateau a few years back and I still do variations of it.

I usually do Military front presses, laterals, and rear and some higher rep machine work to concentrate on hypertrophy. I'm genetically blessed though as I don't have to do too much to induce growth in any particular muscle group.

 

[HITscientist]

Since when in bodybuilding/training is "getting sore" our objective when in the gym?!?!

What happened to going for hypertrophy and creating stimulus's of growth in order to evoke a change in physique?!?!?!

Kind of a silly post if you ask me.

 

[goslamacamel]

Since when in bodybuilding/training is "getting sore" our objective when in the gym?!?!

What happened to going for hypertrophy and creating stimulus's of growth in order to evoke a change in physique?!?!?!

Kind of a silly post if you ask me.

I know you don't necessarily need to have DOMS to have had an effective workout for increasing muscle mass, but being sore does to an extent ensure that your workout actually DID something. Now since my shoulders NEVER get sore, and my lateral deltoids are barely visible, I correlate the two to decide something's seriously wrong. The point IS to "go for hypertrophy" but that isn't happening, and DOMS isn't happening either.

 

[dlew308]

try the face pulls yet? throw in some close grip chin-ups too

 

[HITscientist]

Having DOMS does not mean "you did something or didn't". DOMS occurs to a new stimulus (different exercises, machines, training protocol, etc). It is a conditioned response. It has not direct corelation between "having done something" to a muscle/body part.

 

[maynehood171]

Having DOMS does not mean "you did something or didn't". DOMS occurs to a new stimulus (different exercises, machines, training protocol, etc). It is a conditioned response. It has not direct corelation between "having done something" to a muscle/body part.

I'm more moved by this comment personally...if I run the same routine over and over...I get no DOMS...change it up...and boom...sore...another reason why I believe in the "muscle-confusion" theory as well...

 

[goslamacamel]

Having DOMS does not mean "you did something or didn't". DOMS occurs to a new stimulus (different exercises, machines, training protocol, etc). It is a conditioned response. It has not direct corelation between "having done something" to a muscle/body part.

And isn't a new stimulus what I want if my lateral deltoids aren't growing at all? I want to shock my muscles, and therefore need a "different exercise, machine, or training protocol" and to know whether that new exercise had an isolating effect on my deltoids I WANT some DOMS.

It's not that I'm used to my training routine that's working, it's that I haven't found an exercise that can actually work my lateral deltoids. I've tried to tweak my form endlessly but either they're way too small and efficient or somehow I'm always putting the stress on my anterior and posterior deltoids.

In my situation I believe the soreness would indicate a positive change.

 

[goslamacamel]

try the face pulls yet? throw in some close grip chin-ups too

I tried the face pulls twice over the last week 1/2 to 2 weeks very heavy at first and working down to a lower weight with much higher reps, and I think of all the exercises I've tried this has actually had something of an effect on my lateral deltoids. I never got sore at all, but I did feel a slight pump in the lateral deltoids when I leaned back a bit on the row bench and performed the movement, and a pump in my lateral deltoids is very rare.

This is now my favorite lateral and posterior deltoid exercise as I think eventually it could have potential in getting the laterals caught up.

 

[luxxor]

Whew!!!! Seems like a lot of people do so much "shoulder" training!! I have been training for 20 yrs and have never had an actual "shoulder" routine, and my delts are one of my best body parts. I get sore shoulder from chest and back day! I only throw in some side delt raises with chest day and then rear delt raises on back day. Any more direct shoulder training, to me, would be overtraining...

 

[drummaboyzl]

try the face pulls yet? throw in some close grip chin-ups too

i was thinkin wide grips. lol. just do em both =D

 

[pantera101]

Whew!!!! Seems like a lot of people do so much "shoulder" training!! I have been training for 20 yrs and have never had an actual "shoulder" routine, and my delts are one of my best body parts. I get sore shoulder from chest and back day! I only throw in some side delt raises with chest day and then rear delt raises on back day. Any more direct shoulder training, to me, would be overtraining...

I do mil presses with the three different raises only,and i have great shoulders too.I had a guy looking at my shoulders and say "i need to start traing mine" the other day.If your shoulders get sore from benching,you're probabaly using shoulders to help push the weight which is bad.It takes away from the chest,and will cause pains.I guess you have been traing for 20 years though,so who am i to say?Thats just what i heard,to keep your shoulders "rolled back"and leave them through movement.

 

[Thixotrope]

IThats just what i heard,to keep your shoulders "rolled back"and leave them through movement.

Ditto on that. I always keep my shoulder blades pinched together otherwise you're asking for trouble! Bye bye rotator cuff!

 

[RenegadeRows]

1 word: deadlifts

 

[goslamacamel]

1 word: deadlifts

I deadlift like crazy. Every leg day I either do deadlift or squat, and I have at least 1 leg day a week, normally 2.

That's why I have enormous traps that make my shoulders appear smaller by comparison.

 

[maynehood171]

Ditto on that. I always keep my shoulder blades pinched together otherwise you're asking for trouble! Bye bye rotator cuff!

Precisely! Literally flat and all shoulders will rip your shoulders apart...I actually arch and pinch shoulder blades together...I have bad shoulders as it is from high school sports and this technique saves me...

 

[maynehood171]

I deadlift like crazy. Every leg day I either do deadlift or squat, and I have at least 1 leg day a week, normally 2.

That's why I have enormous traps that make my shoulders appear smaller by comparison.

Seems to be my problem as I look into the mirror but other people say that my shoulders and traps are huge...I see huge traps and small shoulders haha...it's deceiving...but they both receive good love'n every week :cheers:

 

[RenegadeRows]

then try changing it up. if you lift heavy, lift light for many sets.

 

[somewhatgifted]

Most people have poor form to facilitate a side/rear movement. Simply put the front delt works during chest, arms, shoulder and lower body movements so rarely gets sore in advance lifters. To easily fix this problem all you need to do is to lead your side raises and rear delt flyes with your elbows. By keeping your elbows higher than your wrist at ALL times the load is pulled over the side/rear.

As an experiment extend your arm to your side like a side lateral with no weight. Now rotate your arm with a slight bend in the elbow. When you turn it forward your slightly bent elbow will eventually raise above the rest of your arm and initiate the side/rear heads. Inversely when your hand/wrist is higher and your elbow lower your dominant front head will bear the load. So with your arm rotated forward, elbows above your wrists, maintain this form and now intiate a side raise, you will quickly notice how this pulls over the side and rear.
If you roll your arm backwards and end with your wrist high and elbow down then do a side raise its clear that the front delt is pulling the load and not the side, AT ALL! Also do not allow your traps to lift the weight by flexing and maintaining a shoulder that does not rise and allow a trap involvement.

SOOO to effectively train your side/rear heads you need to initiate your lifts with your elbows above your wrists.

I do my side raises with a slight elbow bend or even at 90 degrees keeping my elbows higher than my wrists.

This has been the Only way i have effectively hit my sides and partially my rears as they get blasted in other movements. The main reason for this is with every excercise you can simply roll your shoulder, lead with your wrists, and just do FRONT delts in all excercises to obvious consequences.

Try doing side raises elbows high and at a 90 degree elbow bend, keep your upper arm in line with your body avoiding having your arms go in front of your body bc the front head with have more involvement there.

Lying side laterals on the incline bench work insanely well...

On the incline, on one shoulder (if you lean back its your bodies way of using more front delt) you lift the weight slightly in front of your torso with a small bend in the elbow and always keep it higher than yourt wrist. avoid using your traps by flaring and flexing your lats. Do not simply lift up but use the shoulder in a large arc so as to limit tricep, upper back and trapezius involvement. I swear by these and when i was doing side raises with 40's slow and controlled i could only do the 10's like this bc it hit my weak spot instead of my old approach of front delts for 3 excercises inadvertantly.

You cannot go wrong with this, i promise.

 

[GreenTempo]

Exact same as OP. I've never felt my shoulders sore in my life, yet they're my most developed muscle group, so i'm cool with that i guess

 

[dynomite]

there is no may to take your shoulders completely out of the bench press. so with this in mind go ahead and change up your routine. as stated before changing the routine causes soreness, hypertrohpy or both. so go ahead and do some lat raises on chest day. then change it up again after a couple weeks. i agree with the less is more aproach to this situation. same goes for triceps. these 2 muscle groups recieve a lot of indirect training.


ps: what is a face pull? have not heard that term

 

[harlan100]

Try negetave reps that worked for me

 

[maynehood171]

Try negetave reps that worked for me

I love neg reps!...I throw them into just about everything...

 

[pantera101]

I love neg reps!...I throw them into just about everything...

Well if your shoulders are as massive as harlans,i will have to try them................Just messing with you harlan,i use negatives some times too,by lowering the weight real slow.I train by myself so i don't have someone to pull the weight up for me.I like to explode up,and then fight the neg.

 

[maynehood171]

Well if your shoulders are as massive as harlans,i will have to try them................Just messing with you harlan,i use negatives some times too,by lowering the weight real slow.I train by myself so i don't have someone to pull the weight up for me.I like to explode up,and then fight the neg.

Hahah...I really only like spotters to have to help me finish out a few more on my llast set...I concur with your light weight statement...

 

[BodyWizard]

Originally Posted by Aggravated
Do some moves that you do not normally do. I notice sometimes that if I over train I wont get sore either. Until I started working out with an IFBB pro I only got sore a couple times a week as well. You must squeeze through your rep, and flex between sets. Should work for sure!

I would feel to gay to flex in the gym

Flexing *at home in front of the mirror* is gay :run:

Flexing (or stretching, or just keeping moving) in the gym is part of your workout. You're supposed to by totally focused on your lift, your breathing, until the end of your set, at which point, your attention is on keeping the blood flowing through the tissues you were just working - it's important to do this *now* (your between-set rest) because those tissues need all the oxygen, all the nutrients they can get in order to heal & rebuild; they also need to have the waste products generated by your set removed ASAP. If you don't promote/stimulate fluid transport, those tissues will begin to swell as a result of the mechanical inflammation cause by lifting. This will prevent the removal of waste & detritus & block the repair crews.

At least stretch the primary & secondary movers (a towel will help), and go easy on them - nothing ballistic or extreme.

My 20 pfennigs, anyway

 

[Thixotrope]

Stretching isn't recommended during a workout but after it or in a separate session altogether. Stretching during a workout can cause microtears in the deep fascia and even form scar tissue. Also, stretching in between sets has shown to reduce strength output anywhere from 5-15%. Less weight moved=less adaptive response generated.

You do need to flush the muscle with nutrients and remove waste products but this can be obtained in a much safer and more efficient manner with low intensity cardio (bpm 120-140) and plenty of BCAA's before, during and after your workout.

 

[anapolack2]

pre exaust.....i wouldnt worry too much about getting sore...take care of your shoulders.....dont abuse them....youll thank me later

 

[Botch]

I do mil presses with the three different raises only,and i have great shoulders too.I had a guy looking at my shoulders and say "i need to start traing mine" the other day.If your shoulders get sore from benching,you're probabaly using shoulders to help push the weight which is bad.It takes away from the chest,and will cause pains.I guess you have been traing for 20 years though,so who am i to say?Thats just what i heard,to keep your shoulders "rolled back"and leave them through movement.

Shoulders are always involved in a flat bench press, regardless of whether or not you are rolling them back during the exercise. This is a multi-muscle multi-joint exercise that will engage your shoulders for sure.

 

[Botch]

I can go really heavy on deadlifts or shrugs and get my traps destroyed for the next day or two. But my anterior, later, and posterior deltoids have never been sore to the best of my knowledge. My anterior deltoids are pretty big, and my posteriors are decent, but my laterals are like small bumps that are dwarfed by my anteriors. I've been doing heavy upright rows supersetted with light sets, lots of lateral raises, lots of experimental lightweight lateral deltoid isolation, but to absolutely no avail. I've even done 3 sets of lateral raises with 50 lb dumbbells started off with a jump and doing forced negative reps, but never even felt like I worked them the next day. I even did clean and presses with 160 for the first time ever in attempt to annihilate my shoulders, but of course no soreness and also no real growth. All other bodyparts I can make sore if I really try, and have no real problems forcing them to grow, but my lateral deltoids in particular are very stubborn. Any ideas? I've basically done all shoulder exercises I've ever heard of with high and low weight...

Am I the only one that caught this? I can see you're trying to get forced negatives with that much weight but is it really necessary? You clean and press 160 and you are doing laterals with 50 lb dumbbells?? I clean and press with much more than 160 a few times a week and I use 15 lb dumbbells when I do lateral raises. I know you are just using this exercise as an example, but you can still get a great shoulder workout without increasing the weight that much...just leave your ego at the door and try using MUCH lighter weight. Most of the guys I see in the gym use waaaay too much weight on lateral/bent/front raises, and they end up using many major muscle groups on an isolation exercise...WTF? When you see a guy using the entire sway of his body to do a front raise then something is very wrong! If you concentrate on only using your shoulders and performing very slow negatives with lower weight you WILL feel the burn.

 

[goslamacamel]

Am I the only one that caught this? I can see you're trying to get forced negatives with that much weight but is it really necessary? You clean and press 160 and you are doing laterals with 50 lb dumbbells?? I clean and press with much more than 160 a few times a week and I use 15 lb dumbbells when I do lateral raises. I know you are just using this exercise as an example, but you can still get a great shoulder workout without increasing the weight that much...just leave your ego at the door and try using MUCH lighter weight. Most of the guys I see in the gym use waaaay too much weight on lateral/bent/front raises, and they end up using many major muscle groups on an isolation exercise...WTF? When you see a guy using the entire sway of his body to do a front raise then something is very wrong! If you concentrate on only using your shoulders and performing very slow negatives with lower weight you WILL feel the burn.

I said I've EVEN done that. To do that I basically did jump squats with a slow negative once they were in the air. Normal lateral raises I go between 25 and 35, with about 15 reps and 8 reps respectively. And I hadn't done clean and presses ever before trying it out at 160, just started to incorporate them to get lateral muscle.

 

[pantera101]

Shoulders are always involved in a flat bench press, regardless of whether or not you are rolling them back during the exercise. This is a multi-muscle multi-joint exercise that will engage your shoulders for sure.

but you can minimize there involvement.If your shoulders get sore after chest day,you're using improper form.Every exercise requires other muscles to be used.But you learn and use proper form to minimize the others involvement.

 

[harlan100]

Well if your shoulders are as massive as harlans,i will have to try them................Just messing with you harlan,i use negatives some times too,by lowering the weight real slow.I train by myself so i don't have someone to pull the weight up for me.I like to explode up,and then fight the neg.

:sad::sad::sad: :whip: