Fiber Damage/fiber Saturation Training

[datBtrue]

FIBER DAMAGE/FIBER SATURATION TRAINING is a training protocol advanced by Eric Broser. None of the methodologies are new...for example Bobo and others have long emphasized time under tension (TUT) principles & Bobo himself has emphasized pre-workout nutrition...never-the-less IMHO this training method is very adaptable and very effective. This thread hopefully will generate discussion from those that have utilized these methods and on how to adapt them to create programs for growth.

The following is Eric Broser's explanation of this training. I have edited it for brevity...and I am also inserting my belief that the nutrition protocol does not need to be followed exactly.

With FIBER DAMAGE/FIBER SATURATION TRAINING (FD/FS) the workout is basically broken into 2 phases.

In the first phase (fiber damage), the goal is to utilize training protocols known to cause significant micro-trauma in the muscle fibers...a necessary step to setting the growth process in motion. The techniques to be used in order to achieve this goal are:

• 1) Heavy Weights,
• 2) Eccentric Emphasis, and
• 3) Stretch Under Tension.

Once you have damaged the muscle fibers the goal is to now bathe them with as much nutrient/hormone-rich blood as humanly possible (fiber saturation)... to facilitate immediate repairs, and take advantage of the fact that during a workout (especially when high repetitions are involved) there is as much as five times the normal amount of blood flowing directly to the muscles than when at rest.

The techniques to be used in order to achieve this goal (FS) are:

• 1) Very High Repetitions,
• 2) Continuous Tension, and
• 3) Post Activation Supersets (compound movement followed by isolation movement).

The goal when performing FS sets is to use a "piston-like" tempo, where the weight is almost constantly moving. There is no time for "stretch and squeeze," as all we wish to do is force so much blood into the target muscle that it feels like it may burst. The muscle has already undergone the trauma necessary during FD, and now it is time to nourish it.

In order for FD/FS training to work to its potential, there is also a nutritional protocol to be used along with the program. The types of training techniques utilized during the FD phase are very brutal on both the muscles and CNS, which is why the FS stage of the workout is a necessary component. Since there will be a tremendous amount of blood traveling to the muscles during FS, we can take further advantage of this by overloading the system with certain nutrients before, during, and right after training. The period starting from right before the workout to immediately after is your greatest opportunity nutritionally to hasten the muscle building process.

I would say that FD/FS training is about 30-40% more effective for muscle hypertrophy when the following protocol is utilized:

45 minutes before training:

-Whey Protein Isolate...50 grams
-Waxy Maize Starch or Maltodextrin…50 grams
-Vitamin C...1000 mg
-Phosphatidylserine...800 mg

Sip starting 15 minutes before workout and then throughout workout:

-Waxy Maize Starch or Maltodextrin...25 grams
-Gatorade or similar drink containing electrolytes and glucose...25 grams
-Essential Amino Acids 5-10 grams
-BCAA’s...15-20 grams
-Glutamine...15-20 grams
-Creatine...5 grams
-Beta Alanine...3 grams

15 minutes post workout:

-Whey Protein Isolate...50 grams
-Waxy Maize Starch or Maltodextrin...50 grams
-Antioxidant Blend (I like Radox by Syntrax)...1 serving

*Other ingredients can be used as well at all three times, such as ATP, citrulline, arginine, ALA, etc, but the above is more than enough to feed your muscles what they need.

Here is a sample chest workout for both intermediate and advanced trainees:

Intermediate FD/FS Workout:

-Bench Press...2 x 3-4 (3/0/X tempo) <- Heavy slow eccentric
-Incline Press...2 x 5-6 (6/1/1 tempo) <- Heavy slow eccentric
-Incline DB Flye...2 x 7-8 (2/4/1 tempo) <- Stretch under tension
-Machine Bench Press...1 x 30-40 (1/0/1 tempo; non-lock-out reps) <- Fiber saturation "pump" set
-Smith Incline Press...1 x 30-40 (1/0/1 tempo; non-lock-out reps)<- Fiber saturation "pump" set
-Cable Crossover...1 x 30-40 (1/0/1 tempo)<- Fiber saturation "pump" set

*Rest between sets on first three movements should be about 2-3 minutes. Rest between sets of last three movements should be no more than 1-2 minutes.

Advanced FD/FS Workout:

-Bench Press…2 x 3-4 + 1-2 forced reps (3/0/X tempo) <- Heavy slow eccentric
-Smith Incline Press...2 x 2-3 +1 + 1 + 1 rest/pause style (6/1/1 tempo) or ...Eccentric Only Smith Incline Press**...2 x 5-6 (6 second negatives) <- Heavy slow eccentric
-Incline DB Flye...2 x 7-8 (2/4/1 tempo) <- Stretch under tension
-Machine Bench Press...2 x 30-40 (1/0/1 tempo; non-lock-out reps)<- Fiber saturation "pump" set
-Superset: Machine Dips (1/0/1 tempo; non-lock-out reps) /Pec Deck (1/0/1 tempo)...1 x 20-25 each<- Fiber saturation "pump" set

*Rest between sets on first three movements should be about 2-3 minutes. Rest between sets of high rep movement should be no more than 1-2 minutes. Rest between exercises during superset should be no more than 15 seconds.

**When performing an eccentric only set you must have one to two spotters available to lift the weight back into the start position. Remember, most trainees are 30-40% stronger when lifting eccentrically than concentrically.

NOTE: The absolute MOST important part of FD/FS is the TEMPOS!!

To properly work the muscle the way we need to with the eccentric and stretch under load components (DAMAGE), the reps should be no higher than 6-10 maxiumum. I like 6-8 most of the time.

And, for the SATURATION you will need sets of 20+ reps...often as high as 50 for advanced lifters.

Max total sets for large bodyparts should be 7. For smaller parts, 4-6 sets.

Tempo refers to the amount of time in seconds it takes to lower a weight (eccentric contraction), hold the stretch position, and raise a weight (concentric contraction).

So, a 3/0/X tempo represents a 3 second eccentric, 0 second pause at stretch and an e(X)plosive concentric rep.

A 2/4/1 tempo represents a 2 second eccentric, 4 second stretch pause, and a 1 second concentric.

SECOND NOTE: I just want to mention that rest-pause is not an inherent part of FDFS, like it is with DC. The main components of FDFS are negative emphasis, stretch pause, and high rep blood saturation. While rest-pause CAN be added in...I have done this with masterschamp...it is not standard in FDFS. - EB
​

 

[datBtrue]

FDFS & Quads/Hamstrings​

Here is a sample Quad/Hamstring routine from Eric Broser:

• hack squats (5/1/1)...2 x 6-8 <- Heavy slow eccentric
• leg press (4/1/X)...2 x 6-8 <- Heavy slow eccentric
• sissy squats (2/4/1)...2 x 6-8 <- Stretch under tension
• leg extension (1/0/1)...1 x 30+ <- Fiber saturation "pump" set
• lying leg curl (4/1/1)...2 x 6-8 <- Heavy slow eccentric
• stiff deadlift (2/3/1)...2 x 6-8 <- Stretch under tension
• seated leg curl (1/0/1)...1 x 30+ <- Fiber saturation "pump" set

I used the same routine effectively w/ the one exception of substituting "lying leg curls" w/ "sumo (hamstring) leg press".

 

[datBtrue]

Examples:​

Just to give you more ideas this was TaPo31's FD/FS Workout Plan:

Chest

• Bench Press…2 x 3-4 + 1-2 forced reps (3/0/X tempo) <- Heavy slow eccentric
• Smith Incline Press…2 x 2-3 +1 + 1 + 1 rest/pause style (6/1/1 tempo) or…Eccentric Only Smith Incline Press**…2 x 5-6 (6 second negatives) <- Heavy slow eccentric
• Incline DB Flye…2 x 7-8 (2/4/1 tempo) <- Stretch under tension
• Machine Bench Press…2 x 30-40 (1/0/1 tempo; non-lock-out reps) <- Fiber saturation "pump" set
• Superset: Machine Dips (1/0/1 tempo; non-lock-out reps) /Pec Deck (1/0/1 tempo)…1 x 20-25 each <- Fiber saturation "pump" set

Biceps

• BB Curl…2 x 3-4 + 1-2 forced reps (3/0/X tempo) <- Heavy slow eccentric
• Hammer Preacher Curl…2 x 2-3 +1 + 1 + 1 rest/pause style (6/1/1 tempo) <- Heavy slow eccentric
• DB Preacher Curl…1 x 7-8 (2/4/1 tempo) <- Stretch under tension
• Machine Curl…1 x 30-40 (1/0/1 tempo; non-lock-out reps) <- Fiber saturation "pump" set
• Superset: Reverse Curl (1/0/1 tempo; non-lock-out reps) /DB Hammer Curl (1/0/1 tempo)…1 x 20-25 each <- Fiber saturation "pump" set

Back

• Seated Row…2 x 3-4 + 1-2 forced reps (3/0/X tempo) <- Heavy slow eccentric
• Reverse Grip Lat Pulldown…2 x 2-3 +1 + 1 + 1 rest/pause style (6/1/1 tempo) <- Heavy slow eccentric
• DB Row…2 x 7-8 (2/4/1 tempo) <- Stretch under tension
• WG Lat Pulldown…2 x 30-40 (1/0/1 tempo; non-lock-out reps) <- Fiber saturation "pump" set
• Superset: Deadlift (1/0/1 tempo; non-lock-out reps) /Hyperextension(1/0/1 tempo)…1 x 20-25 each <- Fiber saturation "pump" set

Quads

• Hack Squat…2 x 3-4 + 1-2 forced reps (3/0/X tempo) <- Heavy slow eccentric
• Leg Press…2 x 2-3 +1 + 1 + 1 rest/pause style (6/1/1 tempo) <- Heavy slow eccentric
• Leg Extension…2 x 7-8 (2/4/1 tempo) <- Stretch under tension
• Unilateral Leg Extension…2 x 30-40 (1/0/1 tempo; non-lock-out reps) <- Fiber saturation "pump" set
• Superset: Leg Press machine(1/0/1 tempo; non-lock-out reps) /Walking DB Lunge(1/0/1 tempo)…1 x 20-25 each <- Fiber saturation "pump" set

Hamstrings

• Lying Leg Curl…2 x 3-4 + 1-2 forced reps (3/0/X tempo) <- Heavy slow eccentric
• Straight Leg Deadlift…2 x 2-3 +1 + 1 + 1 rest/pause style (6/1/1 tempo) <- Heavy slow eccentric
• Single Leg Curl…1 x 7-8 (2/4/1 tempo) <- Stretch under tension
• Seated Leg Curl…1 x 30-40 (1/0/1 tempo; non-lock-out reps) <- Fiber saturation "pump" set
• Superset: Adduction (1/0/1 tempo; non-lock-out reps) /Abduction(1/0/1 tempo)…1 x 20-25 each <- Fiber saturation "pump" set

Shoulders

• WG Upright Row…2 x 3-4 + 1-2 forced reps (3/0/X tempo) <- Heavy slow eccentric
• Shoulder Press Machine…2 x 2-3 +1 + 1 + 1 rest/pause style (6/1/1 tempo) <- Heavy slow eccentric
• DB Shoulder Press…2 x 7-8 (2/4/1 tempo) <- Stretch under tension
• Side Lateral Machine…2 x 30-40 (1/0/1 tempo; non-lock-out reps) <- Fiber saturation "pump" set
• Superset:Cable Front Lateral (1/0/1 tempo; non-lock-out reps) /Cable Rear Lateral(1/0/1 tempo)…1 x 20-25 each <- Fiber saturation "pump" set

Triceps

• CG Bench Press…2 x 3-4 + 1-2 forced reps (3/0/X tempo) <- Heavy slow eccentric
• V-bar Pressdown…2 x 2-3 +1 + 1 + 1 rest/pause style (6/1/1 tempo) <- Heavy slow eccentric
• Overhead Extension…1 x 7-8 (2/4/1 tempo) <- Stretch under tension
• Machine Extension…1 x 30-40 (1/0/1 tempo; non-lock-out reps) <- Fiber saturation "pump" set
• Superset: Dips(1/0/1 tempo; non-lock-out reps) /Reverse Pressdown(1/0/1 tempo)…1 x 20-25 each <- Fiber saturation "pump" set

 

[datBtrue]

FDFS & Deadlifting​

For negative emphasis you can use rack deads, hyperextensions or good mornings.

For stretch pause you could use hypers or back extensions.

For saturation you could use hypers, short rack deads, or back extensions. - Eric Broser

hossjob's FDFS & Deadlifting routine:

1. Perform 2 sets of Deadlifts with a 4-6/1/X Tempo NOTE: EB recommended Rack Deads instead of Full Deads
2. Back Ext with a 4/2/X Tempo
3. Back Ext or Good Mornings 2 X 25-40 at 1/0/1/0

 

[datBtrue]

FDFS Back (Lats) Workout​

Here is a more intense FDFS Back (Lats) Workout used by Eric Broser:

1. WG Pullup (6/1/X)...2 x 5-6 <- Heavy slow eccentric
2. CG High Seated Cable Row (1/4/X)...2 x 7-8 <- Stretch under tension
3. Stiff Arm Pulldown (8/1/X)...2 x 6-7 <- Heavy slow eccentric
4. One Arm Row (1/4/1)...2 x 7 <- Stretch under tension
5. Smith Upper Back Bent Row (1/0/1)...2 x 20 <- Fiber saturation "pump" set

Here is a basic FDFS Back (Lats) Workout from Eric Broser:

1. WG pullup (5/1/X tempo)...2 x 6-8 <- Heavy slow eccentric
2. CG seated cable row (1/3/1 tempo)...2 x 6-8 <- Stretch under tension
3. Underhand Grip bent row (1/0/1)...2 x 20-25 <- Fiber saturation "pump" set

Here is sample FDFS back routine specifically for a client of Broser's based on his specific needs...

1. CG PARALLEL GRIP PULLUP WITH STRETCH PAUSE (1/4/1 TEMPO)...2 X 6-8 <- Stretch under tension
2. WG PULLUP WITH ECCENTRIC PAUSES (LOWER TO 1/2 WAY POINT IN 2 SECONDS...HOLD FOR 2 SECONDS...LOWER REMAINDER IN 2 SECONDS...1 SECOND STRETCH, EXPLOSIVE PULL)...2 X 4-6 <- Heavy slow eccentric *NOTE: Method of performance
3. CG T-BAR ROW (1/0/1 TEMPO)...1 X 25 <- Fiber saturation "pump" set
4. WG INCLINE MACHINE ROW (1/0/1 TEMPO)...1 X 25 <- Fiber saturation "pump" set

 

[strategicmove]

Good detail. I have heard a lot about this training method and may give it a shot in the near future. Said to be very demanding!

 

[machwon04]

So working out 7 days/ week??

 

[drewh10987]

Great post datBtrue. I'm really interested in learning more about this and possibly giving it a shot in the future. It looks like 7 days a week would definitely work, but I know for a fact you can combine body parts. What does your split look like datBtrue?

 

[avgBdybldr]

subbed. i may need to give this program a shot during my next PH cycle in a few weeks.

 

[datBtrue]

The training split is up to you. I think Eric Broser recommends in general hitting each body part once a week in a 4 day split. But this isn't set in stone.

He trained one guy who needed to bring up his chest so he had him hit that bodypart twice a week w/ the second workout being less volume then the first.

As for my own split I've been following my own unique style of recomping which basically involves half the week in a lower calorie, below 50 gram carbs diet where insulin is tightly controled and Vanadyl Sulfate is used at night (controlled catabolism) and the second half of the week attempting to be anabolic w/ calorie surplus, necessary carbs, BCAAs, IGF-1 LR3...

During the non-diet anabolic part of my week I work out 3 days straight.

Monday - Quads, Hams, Calfs & 1/3 of a Shoulder workout (BigVrunga suggested splitting shoulders across workouts)

Tuesday - Chest, Biceps & 1/3 of a Shoulder workout

Wednesday - Back thickness, Back width, Triceps & Rear Delts​

Four straight days off (3 dieting days + a Sunday Carb up) means I'm fresh and ready to go again by Monday.

Create whatever split works for you just don't cheat those tempos...6 seconds is not 123456 but rather 1 mississippi 2 mississippi...

...and if you perform the protocol properly you will need to make sure you recover properly.

 

[EasyEJL]

all the florida based trainers are so cool

I need to work on the stretch under tension part. Otherwise, using the modified SAIS i am already getting close to this style.

 

[pudzian2]

this is some great info. Interesting training technique for sure. I think that if I were to ever apply it to my routine, it would definitely not be 7 days straight. Personally I train EOD, and often 5-6 times per week when using AAS. Dont you think that 7 days of training like this would quickly lead to CNS burnout as mentioned? I like the idea of combining bodyparts, but it seems as though the workouts are quite long considering the amount of exercises needed to satisfy the FD and FS segments respectively.

DatBtrue: Since you have been experimenting with these methods for yourself, could you provide more detail on what has worked for you? I have not tried this method but I used to apply the concept of starting a muscle group with low rep heavy compound movements and ending with high rep isolation movements. But like you said, this ignores the 'tempo' becuase I didnt pay much attention to that when I was training.

 

[datBtrue]

Dont you think that 7 days of training like this would quickly lead to CNS burnout as mentioned?

Depends. If you hit everybody part twice in a week then yes. If you are older or don't recover well then yes.

But if you really split up your muscle groups and hit only one a day...that means hams on a different day then quads and back thickness on a different day then back width then it might be okay.

I just think in order to stay fresh we all need days off from the gym.

By-the-way when I posted TaPo31's FD/FS Workout Plan I didn't mean to imply that it was a 7 day split. I was just listing the routine he did for each bodypart. I assume he combined bodyparts into a 4 or possibly 5 day split.

I like the idea of combining bodyparts, but it seems as though the workouts are quite long considering the amount of exercises needed to satisfy the FD and FS segments respectively.

I spend at least 1.5 hours in the gym per workout but no more then 2 hours. Thats why I take in a good carb meal & a protein shake (a blend of fast to slow digesting) before I workout and sip on BCAAs and or a little dextrose while I workout. Muscle recovery begins after my last pump set for that muscle.

DatBtrue: Since you have been experimenting with these methods for yourself, could you provide more detail on what has worked for you?

I love this style because I feel I can hit a muscle from all angles and tax each type of muscle fiber in a single workout. It feels great a day or so later to tap my chest for instance at all points and feel soreness. Two months of this type of training and I still get a good soreness the following day or two.

The one big caution I have is that it is easy to keep the same routine for a bodypart and perform it week in and week out and consistently increase the weights...BUT don't because although you are getting stronger on that exercise by the 6 week or so it is really just your body's nervous system that has adapted and you won't be getting as much growth.

Instead either change the routine monthly or probably even better have a workout "A" & a workout "B" for each muscle group and alternate them so as to stay fresh.

Also it is the idea of the tempos that is important not necessarily THE tempo as Eric Broser has laid it out. So for example an 8 second negative on a lat pulldown makes sense but an 8 second negative on a rack deadlift is stupid. Just controling the negative part of the deadlift (especially the top 2/3) w/ a tight core is just as effective.

In fact you might find 5 or 4 or 3 second negatives to be perfect for a given exercise. The key is to induce fiber damage and study after study has pointed to heavy slower eccentrics.

Also choose the right exercise for the stretch pause...which is held for a count of 4 in the strech position. Sissy squats are PERFECT for quads...regular squats are not. DB Flys are perfect for chest, DB presses are not. Incline curls are perfect for biceps, skulls for triceps...

The fiber saturation or pump sets are often good to do on machines...it is amazing how light a weight you'll use to get 35 reps out of it you will feel a lactic acid burn. One thing you can do is take supplements like Beta Alanine & even Cit. Malate to reduce the lactic acid burn and this will actually enable you to do a few more reps...

Finally this routine is adaptable. You don't even need to do every body part this way. I do calves differently...

But one other methodology I employ that isn't part of the protocol's tempo is a set where you hold the contracted part of the exercise. The reason is that there are not many studies that clearly indicate that there is benefit to holding a contraction BUT again IMHO there are muscle groups that can benefit and they are primarily are calves and back.

So I throw in 2 sets of Hammer Low Rows where I hold the contraction for 4 seconds...I fight it and actually try to contract it more and more for 4 seconds...

Following this up with an exercise that holds the stretch feels so good...

 

[DCbuilder]

The training split is up to you. I think Eric Broser recommends in general hitting each body part once a week in a 4 day split. But this isn't set in stone.


Can you give a good example of the 4 day split body parts?

I.E.
Sun: ?
Mon: Rest
Tues: ?
Wed: Rest
Thurs: ?
Fri: Rest
Sat: ?

Also, what type of warmup are you doing for each day?

Lastly,

One client showed they are doing Chest and Back on the same day. If the exercises for Chest were:

-Bench Press...2 x 3-4 (3/0/X tempo) <- Heavy slow eccentric
-Incline Press...2 x 5-6 (6/1/1 tempo) <- Heavy slow eccentric
-Incline DB Flye...2 x 7-8 (2/4/1 tempo) <- Stretch under tension
-Machine Bench Press...1 x 30-40 (1/0/1 tempo; non-lock-out reps) <- Fiber saturation "pump" set
-Smith Incline Press...1 x 30-40 (1/0/1 tempo; non-lock-out reps)<- Fiber saturation "pump" set
-Cable Crossover...1 x 30-40 (1/0/1 tempo)<- Fiber saturation "pump" set

And for Back were:

Seated Row…2 x 3-4 + 1-2 forced reps (3/0/X tempo) <- Heavy slow eccentric
Reverse Grip Lat Pulldown…2 x 2-3 +1 + 1 + 1 rest/pause style (6/1/1 tempo) <- Heavy slow eccentric
DB Row…2 x 7-8 (2/4/1 tempo) <- Stretch under tension
WG Lat Pulldown…2 x 30-40 (1/0/1 tempo; non-lock-out reps) <- Fiber saturation "pump" set
Superset: Deadlift (1/0/1 tempo; non-lock-out reps) /Hyperextension(1/0/1 tempo)…1 x 20-25 each <- Fiber saturation "pump" set

Are they progressing down the list, doing all Chest exercises first and then all Back exercises?

 

[thesinner]

I like how this routine focusses on tempo. I think it's a key factor in muscle development/maintenance which is often overlooked.

I'm not a fan, however, of forced reps. This is mainly because the parameters involved are often arbitrarily defined. In fact, there has been some clinical research showing forced reps to be nothing more than a waste of time. The issue here (I believe) is that, if you've ever done forced reps with "Spotter A" verus "Spotter B", you might notice that the forced reps with "Spotter B" are a lot easier to do because he puts in more effort to help you get the weight up. Needless to say, it's a total craps shot figuring out how much effort has been put forth by yourself when it comes to forced reps.

I also like the idea of stretching; maybe not 100% with it on a "stretch set", but stretching is another underrated thing. Especially if you're taking a supplement like X-factor, getting your muscles nice'n'stretched can greatly improve efficacy of such products.

 

[datBtrue]

Can you give a good example of the 4 day split body parts?

Here is AN (not THE) example:

Monday: Chest & Biceps
Tuesday: Quads & Hams

Wednesday: OFF

Thursday: Back & Rear Delts
Friday: Side/Front Delt; Triceps & Calves

Saturday: OFF
Sunday: OFF

Also, what type of warmup are you doing for each day?

Warmups are an individual thing BUT most guys work the muscle too much in warmups.

I often have a brisk 15 minute walk to the gym so my warmups are light...I just make sure there is blood in the muscle to be worked.

After that I usually just do weight acclimation until I get to my working weight. For example: w/ Deadlifts maybe 10 reps at 225, then 1 rep at 315, then 1 rep at 405, then 1 rep at 495...then on to my working set.

One client showed they are doing Chest and Back on the same day. If the exercises for Chest were:

-Bench Press...2 x 3-4 (3/0/X tempo) <- Heavy slow eccentric
-Incline Press...2 x 5-6 (6/1/1 tempo) <- Heavy slow eccentric
-Incline DB Flye...2 x 7-8 (2/4/1 tempo) <- Stretch under tension
-Machine Bench Press...1 x 30-40 (1/0/1 tempo; non-lock-out reps) <- Fiber saturation "pump" set
-Smith Incline Press...1 x 30-40 (1/0/1 tempo; non-lock-out reps)<- Fiber saturation "pump" set
-Cable Crossover...1 x 30-40 (1/0/1 tempo)<- Fiber saturation "pump" set

And for Back were:

Seated Row…2 x 3-4 + 1-2 forced reps (3/0/X tempo) <- Heavy slow eccentric
Reverse Grip Lat Pulldown…2 x 2-3 +1 + 1 + 1 rest/pause style (6/1/1 tempo) <- Heavy slow eccentric
DB Row…2 x 7-8 (2/4/1 tempo) <- Stretch under tension
WG Lat Pulldown…2 x 30-40 (1/0/1 tempo; non-lock-out reps) <- Fiber saturation "pump" set
Superset: Deadlift (1/0/1 tempo; non-lock-out reps) /Hyperextension(1/0/1 tempo)…1 x 20-25 each <- Fiber saturation "pump" set

Are they progressing down the list, doing all Chest exercises first and then all Back exercises?

Well the idea of the FD part of FD/FS is to create enough damage in the muscle to induce repair & growth. This is immediately followed up w/ FS which are high rep "pumps" designed to bring a lot of nutrient & oxygen rich blood to the muscle just previously worked. The idea is to begin recovery and repair immediately.

So you would do ALL of your exercises for a bodypart before moving on to another bodypart.

Now I would not recommend doing both chest & back in the same routine. Both are large muscle groups. You do not want to pump up the chest w/ blood only to have it quickly drain to the back as you work that area. That reduces the benefit of Fiber Saturation.

 

[datBtrue]

...I'm not a fan, however, of forced reps. This is mainly because the parameters involved are often arbitrarily defined...

I'm not a fan of forced reps either. But I'm pretty sure Eric only meant by the term "forced" either Rest/Pause OR the type of negatives that require the spotter to greatly assist the positive and let the lifter handle the negative.

 

[datBtrue]

...I also like the idea of stretching; maybe not 100% with it on a "stretch set", but stretching is another underrated thing...

DOES STRETCH INDUCE FIBER HYPERPLASIA?
by Jose Antonio PhD​

...This animal model was first used by Sola et al. (38) in 1973. In essence, you put a weight on one wing of a bird (usually a chicken or quail) and leave the other wing alone. By putting a weight on one wing (usually equal to 10% of the bird's weight), a weight-induced stretch is imposed on the back muscles. The muscle which is usually examined is the anterior latissimus dorsi or ALD (unlike humans, birds have an anterior and posterior latissimus dorsi). Besides the expected observation that the individual fibers grew under this stress, Sola et al. found that this method of overload resulted in a 16% increase in ALD muscle fiber number.

Since the work of Sola, numerous investigators have used this model (1,2,4-8,10,19,26,28,32,43,44). For example, Alway et al. (1) showed that 30 days of chronic stretch (i.e., 30 days with the weight on with NO REST) resulted in a 172% increase in ALD muscle mass and a 52-75% increase in muscle fiber number! Imagine if humans could grow that fast!

More recently, I performed a study using the same stretch model. In addition, I used a progressive overload scheme whereby the bird was initally loaded with a weight equal to 10% of the its weight followed by increments of 15%, 20%, 25%, and 35% of its weight (5). Each weight increment was interspersed with a 2 day rest. The total number of stretch days was 28. Using this approach produced the greatest gains in muscle mass EVER recorded in an animal or human model of tension-induced overload, up to a 334% increase in muscle mass with up to a 90% increase in fiber number (5,8)! That is pretty impressive training responsiveness for our feathered descendants of dinosaurs.

But you might ask yourself, what does hanging a weight on a bird have to do with humans who lift weights? So who cares if birds can increase muscle mass by over 300% and fiber number by 90%. Well, you've got a good point. Certainly, nobody out there (that I know of), hangs weights on their arms for 30 days straight or even 30 minutes for that matter. Maybe you should try it and see what happens. This could be a different albeit painful way to "train."

But actually the physiologically interesting point is that if presented with an appropriate stimulus, a muscle can produce more fibers! What is an appropriate stimulus? I think it is one that involves subjecting muscle fibers to high tension overload (enough to induce injury) followed by a regenerative period.

NOTES:

1. Alway, S. E., P. K. Winchester, M. E. Davis, and W. J. Gonyea. Regionalized adaptations and muscle fiber proliferation in stretch-induced enlargement. J. Appl. Physiol. 66(2): 771-781, 1989.
2. Alway, S. E., W. J. Gonyea, and M. E. Davis. Muscle fiber formation and fiber hypertrophy during the onset of stretch-overload. Am. J. Physiol. (Cell Physiol.). 259: C92-C102, 1990.
3. Alway, S.E., W.H. Grumbt, W.J. Gonyea, and J. Stray-Gundersen. Contrasts in muscle and myofibers of elite male and female bodybuilders. J. Appl. Physiol. 67(1): 24-31, 1989.
4. Antonio, J. and W. J. Gonyea. The role of fiber hypertrophy and hyperplasia in intermittently stretched avian muscle. J. Appl. Physiol. 74(4): 1893-1898, 1993.
5. Antonio, J. and W.J. Gonyea. Progressive stretch overload of avian muscle results in muscle fiber hypertrophy prior to fiber hyperplasia. J. Appl. Physiol., 75(3): 1263-1271, 1993.
6. Antonio, J. and W. J. Gonyea. Muscle fiber splitting in stretch-enlarged avian muscle. Med. Sci. Sports Exerc. 26(8): 973-977, 1994.
7. Antonio, J. and W.J. Gonyea. Skeletal muscle fiber hyperplasia. Med. Sci Sports. Exerc. 25(12): 1333-1345, 1993.
8. Antonio, J. and W.J. Gonyea. Ring fibers express ventricular myosin in stretch overloaded quail muscle. Acta. Physiol. Scand. 152: 429-430, 1994.
9. Armstrong, R. B., P. Marum, P. Tullson, and C. W. Saubert. Acute hypertrophic response of skeletal muscle to removal of synergists. J. Appl. Physiol. 46: 835-842, 1979.
10. Ashmore, C. R. and P. J. Summers. Stretch-induced growth of chicken wing muscles: myofibrillar proliferation. Am. J. Physiol. 51: C93-C97, 1981.
11. Bischoff, R. Interaction between satellite cells and skeletal muscle fibers. Development. 109: 943-952, 1990.
12. Carlson, B. M. The regeneration of skeletal muscle. Am. J. Anat. 137: 119-150, 1973.
13. Chalmers, G.R., R. R. Roy, and V. R. Edgerton. Variation and limitations in fiber enzymatic and size responses in hypertrophied muscle. J. Appl. Physiol. 73(2): 631-641, 1992.
14. Costill, D. L., E. F. Coyle, W. F. Fink, G. R. Lesmes, and F. A. Witzmann. Adaptations in skeletal muscle following strength training. J. Appl. Physiol. 46(1): 96-99, 1979.
15. Cote, C., J. A. Simoneau, P. Lagasse, M. Boulay, M. C. Thibault, M. Marcotte, and C. Bouchard. Isokinetic strength training protocols: do they induce skeletal muscle fiber hypertrophy? Arch. Phys. Med. Rehabil. 69: 281-285, 1988.
16. Darr, K. C. and E. Schultz. Exercise induced satellite cell activation in growing and mature skeletal muscle. J. Appl. Physiol. 63: 1816-1821, 1987.
17. Giddings, C. J. and W. J. Gonyea. Morphological observations supporting muscle fiber hyperplasia following weight-lifting exercise in cats. Anat. Rec. 233: 178-195, 1992.
18. Gollnick, P. D., B. F. Timson, R. L. Moore, and M. Riedy. Muscular enlargement and numbers of fibers in skeletal muscles of rats. J. Appl. Physiol. 50: 936-943, 1981.
19. Gollnick, P. D., D. Parsons, M. Riedy, and R. L. Moore. Fiber number and size in overloaded chicken anterior latissimus dorsi muscle. J. Appl. Physiol. 1983;40: 1292-1297, 1983.
20. Gonyea, W. J. and G. C. Ericson. An experimental model for the study of exercise-induced muscle hypertrophy. J. Appl. Physiol. 40: 630-633, 1976.
21. Gonyea, W. J. Role of exercise in inducing increases in skeletal muscle fiber number. J. Appl. Physiol. 48(3): 421-426, 1980.
22. Gonyea, W. J., D. G. Sale, F. B. Gonyea, and A. Mikesky. Exercise induced increases in muscle fiber number. Eur. J. Appl. Physiol. 55: 137-141, 1986.
23. Häggmark, T., E. Jansson, and B. Svane. Cross-sectional area of the thigh muscle in man measured by computed tomography. Scand. J. Clin. Lab. Invest. 38: 355-360, 1978.
24. Hather, B. M., P. A. Tesch, P. Buchanan, and G. A. Dudley. Influence of eccentric actions on skeletal muscle adaptations to resistance training. Acta. Physiol. Scand. 143: 177-185, 1991.
25. Ho, K. W., R. R. Roy, C. D. Tweedle, W. W. Heusner, W. D. Van Huss, and R. E. Carrow. Skeletal muscle fiber splitting with weight-lifting exercise in rats. Am. J. Anat. 157: 433-440, 1980.
26. Holly, R. G., J. G. Barnett, C. R. Ashmore, R. G. Taylor, and P. A. Mole. Stretch-induced growth in chicken wing muscles: a new model of stretch hypertrophy. Am. J. Physiol. 238: C62-C71, 1980.
27. Holloszy, J. O. and F. W. Booth. Biochemical adaptations to endurance exercise in muscle. Rev. Physiol. 273-291, 1976.
28. Kennedy, J. M., B. R. Eisenberg, S. Kamel, L. J. Sweeney, and R. Zak. Nascent muscle fibers appearance in overloaded chicken slow tonic muscle. Am. J. Anat. 181: 203-205, 1988.
29. Larsson, L. and P.A. Tesch. Motor unit fibre density in extremely hypertrophied skeletal muscles in man. Eur. J. Appl. Physiol. 55: 130-136, 1986.
30. MacDougall, J. D., D. G. Sale, S. E. Alway, and J. R. Sutton. Muscle fiber number in biceps brachii in bodybuilders and control subjects. J. Appl. Physiol. 57: 1399-1403, 1984.
31. MacDougall, J.D. Morphological changes in human skeletal muscle following strength training and immobilization. In: Human Muscle Power (pp. 269-288). N.L. Jones, N. McCartney, A. J. McComas (Eds.). Human Kinetics Publisher, Inc. Champaign, Illinois, 1986.
32. McCormick, K. M. and E. Schultz. Mechanisms of nascent fiber formation during avian skeletal muscle hypertrophy. Dev. Biol. 150: 319-334, 1992.
33. Mikesky, A. E., W. Matthews, C. J. Giddings, and W. J. Gonyea. Muscle enlargement and exercise performance in the cat. J. Appl. Sport Sci. Res. 3: 85-92, 1989.
34. Mikesky, A. E., C. J. Giddings, W. Matthews, and W. J. Gonyea. Changes in muscle fiber size and composition in response to heavy-resistance exercise. Med. Sci. Sports Exerc. 23(9): 1042-1049, 1991.
35. Nygaard, E. and E. Nielsen. Skeletal muscle fiber capillarisation with extreme endurance training in man. In Eriksson B, Furberg B (Eds). Swimming Medicine IV(vol. 6, pp. 282-293). University Park Press, Baltimore, 1978.
36. Schantz, P., E. Randall Fox, P. Norgen, and A. Tyden. The relationship between mean muscle fiber area and the muscle cross-sectional area of the thigh in subjects with large differences in thigh girth. Acta Physiol. Scand. 113: 537-539, 1981.
37. Sjöström, M., J. Lexell, A. Eriksson, and C. C. Taylor. Evidence of fiber hyperplasia in human skeletal muscles from healthy young men? Eur. J. Appl. Physiol. 62: 301-304, 1992.
38. Sola, O. M., D. L. Christensen, and A. W. Martin. Hypertrophy and hyperplasia of adult chicken anterior latissimus dorsi muscles following stretch with and without denervation. Exp. Neurol. 41: 76-100, 1973.
39. Tamaki, T., S. Uchiyama, and S. Nakano. A weight-lifting exercise model for inducing hypertrophy in the hindlimb muscles of rats. Med. Sci. Sports Exerc. 24(8): 881-886, 1992.
40. Tesch, P. A. and L. Larsson. Muscle hypertrophy in bodybuilders. Eur. J. Appl. Physiol. 49: 301-306, 1982.
41. Timson, B. F., B. K. Bowlin, G. A. Dudenhoeffer, and J. B. George. Fiber number, area and composition of mouse soleus following enlargement. J. Appl. Physiol. 58: 619-624, 1985.
42. Vaughan, H. S. and G. Goldspink. Fibre number and fibre size in surgically overloaded muscle. J. Anat. 129(2): 293-303, 1979.
43. Winchester, P. K., M. E. Davis, S. E. Alway, and W. J. Gonyea. Satellite cell activation of the stretch-enlarged anterior latissimus dorsi muscle of the adult quail. Am. J. Physiol. 260: C206-C212, 1991.
44. Winchester, P. K. and W. J. Gonyea. Regional injury and teminal differentiation of satellite cells in stretched avian slow tonic muscle. Dev. Biol. 151: 459-472, 1992.
45. Wong, T. S. and F. W. Booth. Protein metabolism in rat gastrocnemius muscle after stimulated chronic concentric exercise. J. Appl. Physiol. 69(5): 1709-1717, 1990.
46. Wong, T. S. and F. W. Booth. Protein metabolism in rat tibialis anterior muscle after stimulated chronic eccentric exercise. J. Appl. Physiol. 69(5): 1718-1724, 1990.
47. Yamada, S., N. Buffinger, J. Dimario, and R. C. Strohman. Fibroblast growth factor is stored in fiber extracellular matrix and plays a role in regulating muscle hypertrophy. Med. Sci. Sports Exerc. 21(5): S173-S180, 1989.​

​

 

[pudzian2]

I think that this method of training makes a lot of sense. I have always begun my body parts with heavy compound movements and ended them with higher rep, iso movements. I think the tempos, and organization of this FD/FS theory will make all the difference. I will definitely give it a try

 

[DCbuilder]

Here is AN (not THE) example:

Monday: Chest & Biceps
Tuesday: Quads & Hams

Wednesday: OFF

Thursday: Back & Rear Delts
Friday: Side/Front Delt; Triceps & Calves

Saturday: OFF
Sunday: OFF

Thanks for the advice. When you suggest doing back and rear delts, how many exercises are you doing for rear delts, 5 (one at 3/0/X, one at 6/1/1, one at 2/4/1 and two at 1/0/1)?

Also, when you move to the Side/Front Delt; Triceps & Calves day, are you doing 5 exercises for all 3? I've got some good sample workouts for the other days, just need some help for these two days.

Thanks.

 

[thesinner]

DOES STRETCH INDUCE FIBER HYPERPLASIA?
by Jose Antonio PhD​

...This animal model was first used by Sola et al. (38) in 1973. In essence, you put a weight on one wing of a bird (usually a chicken or quail) and leave the other wing alone. By putting a weight on one wing (usually equal to 10% of the bird's weight), a weight-induced stretch is imposed on the back muscles. The muscle which is usually examined is the anterior latissimus dorsi or ALD (unlike humans, birds have an anterior and posterior latissimus dorsi). Besides the expected observation that the individual fibers grew under this stress, Sola et al. found that this method of overload resulted in a 16% increase in ALD muscle fiber number.
​

Interesting study.

I was going more with the fact that it releases intermediates from the cell lining to be used in the production of prostraglandins. Since the COX enzymes are given no lovin', they'll gladly take on arachidonic acid to start down the prostraglandin cascade. But legit clinical evidence also helps.

Not to mention, dude, have you ever stretched right after a workout? It feels so AMAZING. It is up there with drinking a beer, eating a pizza, taking a dump, and gettin' some.​

 

[datBtrue]

Thanks for the advice. When you suggest doing back and rear delts, how many exercises are you doing for rear delts, 5 (one at 3/0/X, one at 6/1/1, one at 2/4/1 and two at 1/0/1)?

The rear delt is a small muscle that gets a lot of work from working the back (esp. rows). I don't do a complete FD/FS protocol for delts.

What I do is follow the back workout w/ Face Pulls. I do 2 exercices of Face Pulls, one with the pulley set high & Face Pulls with the pulley set a little below the waist. These two angles end up completely hitting the the rear delts. I do two sets of each exercise BUT my tempo is NOT like any other FD tempo.

I hold the contraction for 3 seconds & the rest is a controlled pull & release. The number of reps are higher...around 12.

I don't feel the need for a FS "pump" set as there is already blood in that area from the FS back exercises done just prior.

There is no need to overwork that small rear delt...it gets hit pretty hard when you row & even deadlift.

Also, when you move to the Side/Front Delt; Triceps & Calves day, are you doing 5 exercises for all 3?

Preamble​

Smaller muscle groups require fewer sets so 5 exercises is too much. You also need to think about the function of the muscle.

We use our biceps to carry stuff all day long. It is a muscle that is capable of longer duration work & it recovers quickly. Have you ever had to carry heavy grocery bags a long distance? I'll bet the biceps didn't give out...probably the fingers cramped up first. Also if you've ever worked out biceps one day & the following day worked back you'll know that it wasn't ideal to do biceps & pulling workouts back to back BUT you still were able to pull quite a bit.

Have you ever worked out triceps one day and then followed it with pressing exercises the next day? I'll bet your presses really suffered.

The triceps, chest & front shoulders are not endurance muscles...they are explosive and fatigue easily. Picture a boxer throwing punch after punch at a covered up Mohammad Ali...what happens? At first the punches are brutal but in a short amount of time they become slower and less powerful until finally the guy can hardly move those arms.

The point of all this is too help you figure out what type of work you need to make these muscles grow.

Biceps​

Biceps can take more work & more exercises & more sets & more reps. Exercises that emphasize the deep stretch such as incline curls are great and tension should never come off of the bicep throughout the exercises (BECAUSE even just a moments rest helps the bicep recover).

Triceps​

Triceps on the other hand benefit from less but direct work. They need to be hit directly with heavy-ass weight, the total time under tension of a set needs to be less then the biceps and fewer exercises are needed. AND you don't need as full of a range of motion as you do with biceps.

Three (3) properly chosen exercises is all you need for FD/FS training of the triceps.

I like the first one to be heavy reverse close-grip bench press on the Smith Machine. The tempo required is a 6 second negative w/ weight chosen so you fail by rep 6-8. The exercise should be so demanding... taken to failure...so you actually end the exercise by setting the bar on the safety stops. Slide off the bench stand on the bench and pull it back in place for a second set.

You could chose a close-grip bench press instead.

The second exercise should be a stretch & hold where the pause is held for 4 seconds. Lying Triceps extensions (skulls) are perfect for this.

The third exercise is your "pump" exercise and cable pushdowns would work well for this.

Delts​

Delts actually are a mix of endurance and explosive fibers.

The front delts are more explosive, capable of moving a lot of weight explosively but they fatigue easily. They don't need a lot of direct work.

The side delts have more endurance and they recover quicker then front delts. They need more work...more sets & reps...drops sets work well. In fact they need to be worked directly in isolation.

I would allocate two FD exercises to front delts one execise heavy slow eccentric the other stretch pause (holding a DB Press in the stretched position for 4 seconds really fatigues the shoulders).

I would work side delts w/ various laterals where the motion is controled w/ slower negatives & a pause at the contraction (NOT a pause at the stretch because it takes the tension off). Keep the tension on the side lateral.

One nifty way to do this is sit on a bench with your legs on the bench straight out like you are going to stretch your hams. Take two light DBs, lean slightly forward and do your DB side raises making sure to raise with the elbows, pinkie high.

Finally for your FS "pump" set I'd go with something that taxes the side delts again...maybe a machine or cable lateral.

Calves​

Calves are a different beast. The primary function is to get you up on your toes. Once you are on your toes...you can stay there for a while...you can even attempt to raise up higher on your toes. Calves are endurance muscles like biceps and benefit from deep stretch, full ranges of motion and yes holding the contraction.

The problem is that it isn't possible to really effectively cover all three (stretch, fullrange & contraction) in a single set. So it is best IMHO (This is not set in stone...everyone seems to have there own methods) to do sets that focus on only one aspect.

For instance do a set of Standing Calf Machine Raises where you explode up & hold the contraction fo 5-15 seconds...try to get up on the toes and keep fighting to get higher, lower and then back up to hold the contraction. Reps of 8-12 will work.

Follow these w/ a set of Standing Calf Machine Raises in the style of DC (i.e. hold the deep stretch for 5-15 secs, explode up w/ a controlled negative and then deep taxing stretch again).

Those two styles serve to induce FD (Fiber Damage).

Then follow them up w/ a set of Standing Calf Machine Raises but lower the weight and do them "pump" set style. I.E. 35+ reps of quick motion full range reps (no holds or deep stretch). That serves as your FS (Fiber Saturation).

That ends up being 3 sets on the Standing Calf Machine Raises.

Now IF you have the energy go do the same 3 sets on the Seated Calf Raise.

Again these are only suggestions...I tried to give you some ideas so you can put something together that works for you. If you understand what we are trying to accomplish, how the muscles work you can adapt things to suit your individual needs.

 

[datBtrue]

I was going more with the fact that it releases intermediates from the cell lining to be used in the production of prostraglandins. Since the COX enzymes are given no lovin', they'll gladly take on arachidonic acid to start down the prostraglandin cascade.

Thats interesting...even if the benefit is slight...over time it all adds up.

Not to mention, dude, have you ever stretched right after a workout? It feels so AMAZING. It is up there with drinking a beer, eating a pizza, taking a dump, and gettin' some.

I agree...I've been trying to combine all five for years. Thats why when a chick tells me she is "open-minded" I say "Oh yeah how openminded?" :twisted:

 

[EasyEJL]

I need to work on getting the stretch types in to all muscle groups.

 

[datBtrue]

I need to work on getting the stretch types in to all muscle groups.

They are beneficial but just be careful in choosing. For example some DC stretch exercises are great but the lat stretch where he has you hang a weight around your waist and hang from a chinup bar is horrible. It doesn't stretch the lats...a better way would be to use a T-Bar close grip and just hold that nice bottom stretch. Better than sex...or NOT!

 

[DCbuilder]

The rear delt is a small muscle that gets a lot of work from working the back (esp. rows). I don't do a complete FD/FS protocol for delts.

What I do is follow the back workout w/ Face Pulls. I do 2 exercices of Face Pulls, one with the pulley set high & Face Pulls with the pulley set a little below the waist. These two angles end up completely hitting the the rear delts. I do two sets of each exercise BUT my tempo is NOT like any other FD tempo.

I hold the contraction for 3 seconds & the rest is a controlled pull & release. The number of reps are higher...around 12.

I don't feel the need for a FS "pump" set as there is already blood in that area from the FS back exercises done just prior.

There is no need to overwork that small rear delt...it gets hit pretty hard when you row & even deadlift.

Preamble​

Smaller muscle groups require fewer sets so 5 exercises is too much. You also need to think about the function of the muscle.

We use our biceps to carry stuff all day long. It is a muscle that is capable of longer duration work & it recovers quickly. Have you ever had to carry heavy grocery bags a long distance? I'll bet the biceps didn't give out...probably the fingers cramped up first. Also if you've ever worked out biceps one day & the following day worked back you'll know that it wasn't ideal to do biceps & pulling workouts back to back BUT you still were able to pull quite a bit.

Have you ever worked out triceps one day and then followed it with pressing exercises the next day? I'll bet your presses really suffered.

The triceps, chest & front shoulders are not endurance muscles...they are explosive and fatigue easily. Picture a boxer throwing punch after punch at a covered up Mohammad Ali...what happens? At first the punches are brutal but in a short amount of time they become slower and less powerful until finally the guy can hardly move those arms.

The point of all this is too help you figure out what type of work you need to make these muscles grow.

Biceps​

Biceps can take more work & more exercises & more sets & more reps. Exercises that emphasize the deep stretch such as incline curls are great and tension should never come off of the bicep throughout the exercises (BECAUSE even just a moments rest helps the bicep recover).

Triceps​

Triceps on the other hand benefit from less but direct work. They need to be hit directly with heavy-ass weight, the total time under tension of a set needs to be less then the biceps and fewer exercises are needed. AND you don't need as full of a range of motion as you do with biceps.

Three (3) properly chosen exercises is all you need for FD/FS training of the triceps.

I like the first one to be heavy reverse close-grip bench press on the Smith Machine. The tempo required is a 6 second negative w/ weight chosen so you fail by rep 6-8. The exercise should be so demanding... taken to failure...so you actually end the exercise by setting the bar on the safety stops. Slide off the bench stand on the bench and pull it back in place for a second set.

You could chose a close-grip bench press instead.

The second exercise should be a stretch & hold where the pause is held for 4 seconds. Lying Triceps extensions (skulls) are perfect for this.

The third exercise is your "pump" exercise and cable pushdowns would work well for this.

Delts​

Delts actually are a mix of endurance and explosive fibers.

The front delts are more explosive, capable of moving a lot of weight explosively but they fatigue easily. They don't need a lot of direct work.

The side delts have more endurance and they recover quicker then front delts. They need more work...more sets & reps...drops sets work well. In fact they need to be worked directly in isolation.

I would allocate two FD exercises to front delts one execise heavy slow eccentric the other stretch pause (holding a DB Press in the stretched position for 4 seconds really fatigues the shoulders).

I would work side delts w/ various laterals where the motion is controled w/ slower negatives & a pause at the contraction (NOT a pause at the stretch because it takes the tension off). Keep the tension on the side lateral.

One nifty way to do this is sit on a bench with your legs on the bench straight out like you are going to stretch your hams. Take two light DBs, lean slightly forward and do your DB side raises making sure to raise with the elbows, pinkie high.

Finally for your FS "pump" set I'd go with something that taxes the side delts again...maybe a machine or cable lateral.

Calves​

Calves are a different beast. The primary function is to get you up on your toes. Once you are on your toes...you can stay there for a while...you can even attempt to raise up higher on your toes. Calves are endurance muscles like biceps and benefit from deep stretch, full ranges of motion and yes holding the contraction.

The problem is that it isn't possible to really effectively cover all three (stretch, fullrange & contraction) in a single set. So it is best IMHO (This is not set in stone...everyone seems to have there own methods) to do sets that focus on only one aspect.

For instance do a set of Standing Calf Machine Raises where you explode up & hold the contraction fo 5-15 seconds...try to get up on the toes and keep fighting to get higher, lower and then back up to hold the contraction. Reps of 8-12 will work.

Follow these w/ a set of Standing Calf Machine Raises in the style of DC (i.e. hold the deep stretch for 5-15 secs, explode up w/ a controlled negative and then deep taxing stretch again).

Those two styles serve to induce FD (Fiber Damage).

Then follow them up w/ a set of Standing Calf Machine Raises but lower the weight and do them "pump" set style. I.E. 35+ reps of quick motion full range reps (no holds or deep stretch). That serves as your FS (Fiber Saturation).

That ends up being 3 sets on the Standing Calf Machine Raises.

Now IF you have the energy go do the same 3 sets on the Seated Calf Raise.

Again these are only suggestions...I tried to give you some ideas so you can put something together that works for you. If you understand what we are trying to accomplish, how the muscles work you can adapt things to suit your individual needs.

Thanks for the read and advice. I've got a good idea now for my exercises. Very informative thread.

 

[Hoopie]

FD/FS is brutally painfull..Prepare yourself for pain with this program...

 

[machwon04]

what are some good rear delt exercises?

 

[pudzian2]

The rear delt is a small muscle that gets a lot of work from working the back (esp. rows). I don't do a complete FD/FS protocol for delts.

What I do is follow the back workout w/ Face Pulls. I do 2 exercices of Face Pulls, one with the pulley set high & Face Pulls with the pulley set a little below the waist. These two angles end up completely hitting the the rear delts. I do two sets of each exercise BUT my tempo is NOT like any other FD tempo.

I hold the contraction for 3 seconds & the rest is a controlled pull & release. The number of reps are higher...around 12.

"I don't feel the need for a FS "pump" set as there is already blood in that area from the FS back exercises done just prior.

There is no need to overwork that small rear delt...it gets hit pretty hard when you row & even deadlift."---[/B]DatBtrue

it was posted earlier on THIS page

 

[datBtrue]

what are some good rear delt exercises?

The basic Bent-over Dumbell Laterals may be the best IF it is performed correctly. Don't go to heavy, get a proper contraction, aim for 12-15 reps using a hammer grip with your thumbs facing each other at the start of the rep...finishing with pinkies high.

 

[EasyEJL]

The basic Bent-over Dumbell Laterals may be the best IF it is performed correctly. Don't go to heavy, get a proper contraction, aim for 12-15 reps using a hammer grip with your thumbs facing each other at the start of the rep...finishing with pinkies high.

what about the pec/delt machine? how does that compare you think?

 

[thesinner]

what about the pec/delt machine? how does that compare you think?

One thing that drives me batty about machines is the kidney-shaped cam. It's going to shift the point of peak stress earlier on in the ROM as compared to free weights (where it's at the end position). Now we compare this to the point of maximum recruitment of the muscle, and find things are a little skewed. From my experience, reverse pec deck has a tendency to focus more on the upper back than the rear deltoid.

 

[datBtrue]

what about the pec/delt machine? how does that compare you think?

One thing that drives me batty about machines is the kidney-shaped cam. It's going to shift the point of peak stress earlier on in the ROM as compared to free weights (where it's at the end position). Now we compare this to the point of maximum recruitment of the muscle, and find things are a little skewed. From my experience, reverse pec deck has a tendency to focus more on the upper back than the rear deltoid.

Sin, you make a very good point. A few things that you can try to improve the focus of the stress so it is more on the rear delt is to grip the handles so that the pinkie is high and thumb low...also set the seat so the elbows are at about a 90 degree angle from the body...lastly hold that contraction for a couple of seconds.

Perhaps a better exercise to replace this one is cable pull-aparts...made famous by Jay Cutler.

 

[datBtrue]

Eric Broser sample routines for Traps & Calves:

Traps

• DB Shrug...2 x 6-8 (4/1/X) <- Heavy slow eccentric
• BB Shrug...1 x 8-10 (1/4/X) <- Stretch under tension
• CG BB Upright Row...1 x 20+ (1/0/1) <- Fiber saturation "pump" set

Calves

• Standing Calf...1 x 8-10 (4/1/1) <- Heavy slow eccentric
• Calf Press...2 x 6-8 (1/4/1) <- Stretch under tension
• Seated Calf...1 x 20+ (1/0/1) <- Fiber saturation "pump" set

 

[thesinner]

Eric Broser needs to look at donkey calf raises Bar none, the best way to stretch the calves.

 

[datBtrue]

Eric Broser needs to look at donkey calf raises Bar none, the best way to stretch the calves.

I thought about doing those the other day but my cheap-@ssed gym didn't have a Schwarzenegger around to put on my back.

I mean HE is a politician now...how much could he cost?

Unbelievable...I mean the last gym I worked out in at least had a Franco to do my deadlifts for me...

 

[thesinner]

Eh, they make Governator clones for a dime a dozen.


You can use a dip belt to mimic the same effect, or in the case of some gyms, they have donkey calf raise machines now.

It also looks a lot less gay.

 

[MovinWeight]

I decided to do a slightly modified version of FD/FS Monday for chest day. I started with some heavier sets of flat bench, then some midrange sets on incline, followed by inclined db flies, and then followed up with the fiber saturation sets. One set of flat smith presses and a set on the machine flies. All I can say is it's now Thursday and my chest is still sore. It's a good soreness though, so I must say my first impression of FD/FS is nothing but positive. I like the ideas behind it and I like the overall way it is set up. My college's spring break is next week, but once I get back, I think I might try doing a full FD/FS workout.

 

[ShakesAllDay]

what are some good rear delt exercises?

Bent-over DB reverse flies seem to do very well. The key, though, is good form. It is tough to really isolate that muscle. Just try variations of angles (grip, hip, etc.) with light weight and see which combos hit your rear delts the best.

Also, remember that you don't have to bring your elbows past your body. Bringing them too far back emphasizes more trap and back involvement.

IMO. :cheers:


EDIT: Excuse my ignorance, but wouldn't a seated calf-press be almost the same mechanics as a 'donkey-press'?

 

[thesinner]

EDIT: Excuse my ignorance, but wouldn't a seated calf-press be almost the same mechanics as a 'donkey-press'?

Donkey raises are more akin to doing calf raises on a leg press; however, you can maintain a greater torque at the bottom position with donkey's.

Seated Calf Raises employ very different mechanics, though.

 

[silverSurfer]

Great thread datBrute!

I'm going to give some of this a try.

 

[pistonpump]

this is a great read! everyone should rep this man!

 

[msucurt]

wow...awesome job datbtrue. I think i have read every thread on every forum on fsfd training. Im gonna post my routine from all my info i have gathered. Hopefully, you can look at it and see what you think.

thanks

 

[msucurt]

Well, after lots of reading and going through different exercises and from reading lots of datbtrue's advice here, this is what i have come up with.....suggestions/comments are welcome.

I am going to do a 3 day split, but not sure about having this one. Any help on a nice 3 day split.

Chest/Back
Legs
Shoulders/Arms

or................................................ ..

chest/tri
legs/abs
back/shoulders/bi

or...............................................

Chest/Bi's
Back/Tris
Shoulders/Legs


Chest

-Bench Press…2 x 3-4 (3/0/X tempo)
-Incline Press…2 x 5-6 (6/1/1 tempo)
-Incline DB Flye…2 x 7-8 (2/4/1 tempo)
-Machine Bench Press…2 x 30-40 (1/0/1 tempo; non-lock-out reps)
-Superset: Machine Dips (1/0/1 tempo; non-lock-out reps) /Pec Deck (1/0/1 tempo)…1 x 20-25 each

Biceps

-BB Curl…2 x 3-4 + 1-2 forced reps (3/0/X tempo)
-Incline DB Curls 2 x 7-8 (2/4/1 tempo)
-DB Preacher Curl…1 x 7-8 (2/4/1 tempo)
-Machine Curl…1 x 30-40 (1/0/1 tempo; non-lock-out reps)
-Superset: Reverse Curl (1/0/1 tempo; non-lock-out reps) /DB Hammer Curl (1/0/1 tempo)…1 x 20-25 each

Back

-WG pullup (5/1/X tempo)...2 x 6-8
-CG seated cable row (1/3/1 tempo)...2 x 6-8
-Superset: Deadlift (1/0/1 tempo; non-lock-out reps) /Hyperextension(1/0/1 tempo)…1 x 20-25 each

Legs

hack squats (5/1/1)...2 x 6-8
leg press (4/1/X)...2 x 6-8
sissy squats (2/4/1)...2 x 6-8
leg extension (1/0/1)...1 x 30+
sumo press (4/1/1)...2 x 6-8
stiff deadlift (2/3/1)...2 x 6-8
seated leg curl (1/0/1)...1 x 30+
seated calf raise - DC style 1x10 (5/10/x)

Shoulders

-WG Upright Row…2 x 3-4 (3/0/X tempo)
-Shoulder Press Machine…2 x 2-3 (6/1/1 tempo)
-DB Shoulder Press…2 x 7-8 (2/4/1 tempo)
-Side Lateral Machine…1 x 30-40 (1/0/1 tempo; non-lock-out reps)

Triceps

reverse close-grip bench press 2x6-8 (6/1/1)
Lying Triceps extensions 2x7-8 (2/4/1)
superset cable pushdowns (1/0/1) / dips (1/0/1) 1x20-25 (non-lockout reps)

 

[koi1214]

Bump great info.

 

[UKStrength]

I'm bumping this too, I might have to give this a try at some point.

 

[koi1214]

Does anyone know how to set up a FD/FS routine only using free weights only?
Here is my workout routine:

Monday-Chest/Triceps
Tusday-Back/Biceps
Thursday-Legs
Friday-Shoulders

 

[Hoopie]

Does anyone know how to set up a FD/FS routine only using free weights only?
Here is my workout routine:

Monday-Chest/Triceps
Tusday-Back/Biceps
Thursday-Legs
Friday-Shoulders

Do you have access to any machines at all?

 

[koi1214]

Do you have access to any machines at all?

I have
Bench with leg attachment
Barbel,Dumbell and EZ Curl bars
PullUp bar
Plenty of plates(weights)

 

[koi1214]

This is what I came up with
Chest
30 degree Incline Bench Press-3x5
45 degree Incline-3x5
Fllat Bench-1x25
Superset-Dips/Flyes-2x20

Back
BO Rows-3x5
Weighted Chinups-3x5
Pullovers-2x25
SS-TBar Rows/Good Mornings-2x20

Legs
Squat-3x5
S/L Deadlift-3x5
DB Lunges-2x25
SS-Leg Extensions/Lying Leg Curls-2x20

Shoulders
Overhead Press-3x5
Power Cleans-3x5
Arnold Press-2x25
SS-Upright Rows/Side Laterals-2x20

1.Not sure how to setup biceps and triceps
2.Not sure about back routine