Originally Posted by datBtrue

The basic Bent-over Dumbell Laterals may be the best IF it is performed correctly. Don't go to heavy, get a proper contraction, aim for 12-15 reps using a hammer grip with your thumbs facing each other at the start of the rep...finishing with pinkies high.

what about the pec/delt machine? how does that compare you think?

Originally Posted by EasyEJL

what about the pec/delt machine? how does that compare you think?

One thing that drives me batty about machines is the kidney-shaped cam. It's going to shift the point of peak stress earlier on in the ROM as compared to free weights (where it's at the end position). Now we compare this to the point of maximum recruitment of the muscle, and find things are a little skewed. From my experience, reverse pec deck has a tendency to focus more on the upper back than the rear deltoid.

Originally Posted by EasyEJL

what about the pec/delt machine? how does that compare you think?

Originally Posted by thesinner

One thing that drives me batty about machines is the kidney-shaped cam. It's going to shift the point of peak stress earlier on in the ROM as compared to free weights (where it's at the end position). Now we compare this to the point of maximum recruitment of the muscle, and find things are a little skewed. From my experience, reverse pec deck has a tendency to focus more on the upper back than the rear deltoid.

Sin, you make a very good point. A few things that you can try to improve the focus of the stress so it is more on the rear delt is to grip the handles so that the pinkie is high and thumb low...also set the seat so the elbows are at about a 90 degree angle from the body...lastly hold that contraction for a couple of seconds.

Perhaps a better exercise to replace this one is cable pull-aparts...made famous by Jay Cutler.

Eric Broser sample routines for Traps & Calves:

Traps

• DB Shrug...2 x 6-8 (4/1/X) <- Heavy slow eccentric
• BB Shrug...1 x 8-10 (1/4/X) <- Stretch under tension
• CG BB Upright Row...1 x 20+ (1/0/1) <- Fiber saturation "pump" set

Calves

• Standing Calf...1 x 8-10 (4/1/1) <- Heavy slow eccentric
• Calf Press...2 x 6-8 (1/4/1) <- Stretch under tension
• Seated Calf...1 x 20+ (1/0/1) <- Fiber saturation "pump" set

Eric Broser needs to look at donkey calf raises Bar none, the best way to stretch the calves.

Originally Posted by thesinner

Eric Broser needs to look at donkey calf raises Bar none, the best way to stretch the calves.

I thought about doing those the other day but my cheap-@ssed gym didn't have a Schwarzenegger around to put on my back.

I mean HE is a politician now...how much could he cost?

Unbelievable...I mean the last gym I worked out in at least had a Franco to do my deadlifts for me...

Eh, they make Governator clones for a dime a dozen.


You can use a dip belt to mimic the same effect, or in the case of some gyms, they have donkey calf raise machines now.

It also looks a lot less gay.

I decided to do a slightly modified version of FD/FS Monday for chest day. I started with some heavier sets of flat bench, then some midrange sets on incline, followed by inclined db flies, and then followed up with the fiber saturation sets. One set of flat smith presses and a set on the machine flies. All I can say is it's now Thursday and my chest is still sore. It's a good soreness though, so I must say my first impression of FD/FS is nothing but positive. I like the ideas behind it and I like the overall way it is set up. My college's spring break is next week, but once I get back, I think I might try doing a full FD/FS workout.

Originally Posted by machwon04

what are some good rear delt exercises?

Bent-over DB reverse flies seem to do very well. The key, though, is good form. It is tough to really isolate that muscle. Just try variations of angles (grip, hip, etc.) with light weight and see which combos hit your rear delts the best.

Also, remember that you don't have to bring your elbows past your body. Bringing them too far back emphasizes more trap and back involvement.

IMO.


EDIT: Excuse my ignorance, but wouldn't a seated calf-press be almost the same mechanics as a 'donkey-press'?

Originally Posted by ShakesAllDay

EDIT: Excuse my ignorance, but wouldn't a seated calf-press be almost the same mechanics as a 'donkey-press'?

Donkey raises are more akin to doing calf raises on a leg press; however, you can maintain a greater torque at the bottom position with donkey's.

Seated Calf Raises employ very different mechanics, though.

Great thread datBrute!

I'm going to give some of this a try.

this is a great read! everyone should rep this man!

wow...awesome job datbtrue. I think i have read every thread on every forum on fsfd training. Im gonna post my routine from all my info i have gathered. Hopefully, you can look at it and see what you think.

thanks

Well, after lots of reading and going through different exercises and from reading lots of datbtrue's advice here, this is what i have come up with.....suggestions/comments are welcome.

I am going to do a 3 day split, but not sure about having this one. Any help on a nice 3 day split.

Chest/Back
Legs
Shoulders/Arms

or............................ .................... ..

chest/tri
legs/abs
back/shoulders/bi

or............................ ...................

Chest/Bi's
Back/Tris
Shoulders/Legs


Chest

-Bench Press…2 x 3-4 (3/0/X tempo)
-Incline Press…2 x 5-6 (6/1/1 tempo)
-Incline DB Flye…2 x 7-8 (2/4/1 tempo)
-Machine Bench Press…2 x 30-40 (1/0/1 tempo; non-lock-out reps)
-Superset: Machine Dips (1/0/1 tempo; non-lock-out reps) /Pec Deck (1/0/1 tempo)…1 x 20-25 each

Biceps

-BB Curl…2 x 3-4 + 1-2 forced reps (3/0/X tempo)
-Incline DB Curls 2 x 7-8 (2/4/1 tempo)
-DB Preacher Curl…1 x 7-8 (2/4/1 tempo)
-Machine Curl…1 x 30-40 (1/0/1 tempo; non-lock-out reps)
-Superset: Reverse Curl (1/0/1 tempo; non-lock-out reps) /DB Hammer Curl (1/0/1 tempo)…1 x 20-25 each

Back

-WG pullup (5/1/X tempo)...2 x 6-8
-CG seated cable row (1/3/1 tempo)...2 x 6-8
-Superset: Deadlift (1/0/1 tempo; non-lock-out reps) /Hyperextension(1/0/1 tempo)…1 x 20-25 each

Legs

hack squats (5/1/1)...2 x 6-8
leg press (4/1/X)...2 x 6-8
sissy squats (2/4/1)...2 x 6-8
leg extension (1/0/1)...1 x 30+
sumo press (4/1/1)...2 x 6-8
stiff deadlift (2/3/1)...2 x 6-8
seated leg curl (1/0/1)...1 x 30+
seated calf raise - DC style 1x10 (5/10/x)

Shoulders

-WG Upright Row…2 x 3-4 (3/0/X tempo)
-Shoulder Press Machine…2 x 2-3 (6/1/1 tempo)
-DB Shoulder Press…2 x 7-8 (2/4/1 tempo)
-Side Lateral Machine…1 x 30-40 (1/0/1 tempo; non-lock-out reps)

Triceps

reverse close-grip bench press 2x6-8 (6/1/1)
Lying Triceps extensions 2x7-8 (2/4/1)
superset cable pushdowns (1/0/1) / dips (1/0/1) 1x20-25 (non-lockout reps)

Bump great info.

I'm bumping this too, I might have to give this a try at some point.

Does anyone know how to set up a FD/FS routine only using free weights only?
Here is my workout routine:

Monday-Chest/Triceps
Tusday-Back/Biceps
Thursday-Legs
Friday-Shoulders

Originally Posted by koi1214

Does anyone know how to set up a FD/FS routine only using free weights only?
Here is my workout routine:

Monday-Chest/Triceps
Tusday-Back/Biceps
Thursday-Legs
Friday-Shoulders

Do you have access to any machines at all?

Originally Posted by Hoopie

Do you have access to any machines at all?

I have
Bench with leg attachment
Barbel,Dumbell and EZ Curl bars
PullUp bar
Plenty of plates(weights)

This is what I came up with
Chest
30 degree Incline Bench Press-3x5
45 degree Incline-3x5
Fllat Bench-1x25
Superset-Dips/Flyes-2x20

Back
BO Rows-3x5
Weighted Chinups-3x5
Pullovers-2x25
SS-TBar Rows/Good Mornings-2x20

Legs
Squat-3x5
S/L Deadlift-3x5
DB Lunges-2x25
SS-Leg Extensions/Lying Leg Curls-2x20

Shoulders
Overhead Press-3x5
Power Cleans-3x5
Arnold Press-2x25
SS-Upright Rows/Side Laterals-2x20

1.Not sure how to setup biceps and triceps
2.Not sure about back routine

Subbed....

Great Thread

Originally Posted by koi1214

This is what I came up with
Chest
30 degree Incline Bench Press-3x5
45 degree Incline-3x5
Fllat Bench-1x25
Superset-Dips/Flyes-2x20

Back
BO Rows-3x5
Weighted Chinups-3x5
Pullovers-2x25
SS-TBar Rows/Good Mornings-2x20

Legs
Squat-3x5
S/L Deadlift-3x5
DB Lunges-2x25
SS-Leg Extensions/Lying Leg Curls-2x20

Shoulders
Overhead Press-3x5
Power Cleans-3x5
Arnold Press-2x25
SS-Upright Rows/Side Laterals-2x20

1.Not sure how to setup biceps and triceps
2.Not sure about back routine

Can anyone help a brother out?I am trying to set up a FD/FS routine using no machines.

BI's

BB Curl 2x3-4 +2 forced reps(3/0/x tempo)
Hammer curls 2x3-4 +1+1+1 rest pause(6/1/1)
concentration curl 1x8(2/4/1)
ez bar curl 1x30-40
SUPERSET: rev. curl/db hammer curl 1x20-25

TRI'S
CG bench 2x3-4 +2 forced reps(3/0/x)
skulls 2x3 +1+1+1 rest pause(6/1/1)
EZ bar overhead Ext 1x8(2/4/1)
db kickbacks 1x30-40
SUPERSET:rg bench/bench dips 1x20-25

Here's an arm workout for ya using fd/fs. with what you have its gonna be kinda hard for back but let me look at it and see what i can come up with....But with what you have this is what i would do for arms.

For back can you do deads?

Anyway for you to do hypers?

how about rack deads?

Also do you have enough room to place a bar into the corner of the room and do rows close grip style?

guys, when it comes to FD/FS and P/RR/S workouts, HOOPIE knows his stuff. He helped me tremendously. I did the fd/fs for 4 weeks, then did the P/RR/S workouts (advanced) for 7 weeks. Definitely opened my eyes to things such as TUT...tempo, mind/muscle connection. I definitely would recommend these workouts. Im so ADD that i switch my routines about every 2 months. but i am sure i will be doing the P/RR/S again for sure. GOOD STUFF

thanks

Originally Posted by Hoopie

For back can you do deads?

Anyway for you to do hypers?

how about rack deads?

Also do you have enough room to place a bar into the corner of the room and do rows close grip style?

Originally Posted by msucurt

guys, when it comes to FD/FS and P/RR/S workouts, HOOPIE knows his stuff. He helped me tremendously. I did the fd/fs for 4 weeks, then did the P/RR/S workouts (advanced) for 7 weeks. Definitely opened my eyes to things such as TUT...tempo, mind/muscle connection. I definitely would recommend these workouts. Im so ADD that i switch my routines about every 2 months. but i am sure i will be doing the P/RR/S again for sure. GOOD STUFF

thanks

Thanks for the kind words my friend! Glad i was able to help you out. How the heck are ya? Hows the training going?

yea that's very interesting concept.
Although I don't like to consume anything other than water during my workout, i might give this a go.

Originally Posted by Hoopie

BI's

BB Curl 2x3-4 +2 forced reps(3/0/x tempo)
Hammer curls 2x3-4 +1+1+1 rest pause(6/1/1)
concentration curl 1x8(2/4/1)
ez bar curl 1x30-40
SUPERSET: rev. curl/db hammer curl 1x20-25

TRI'S
CG bench 2x3-4 +2 forced reps(3/0/x)
skulls 2x3 +1+1+1 rest pause(6/1/1)
EZ bar overhead Ext 1x8(2/4/1)
db kickbacks 1x30-40
SUPERSET:rg bench/bench dips 1x20-25

Here's an arm workout for ya using fd/fs. with what you have its gonna be kinda hard for back but let me look at it and see what i can come up with....But with what you have this is what i would do for arms.

Thank You

Originally Posted by Hoopie

For back can you do deads?

Anyway for you to do hypers?

how about rack deads?

Also do you have enough room to place a bar into the corner of the room and do rows close grip style?

Yes on deadlifts.
No on hypers.
Yes on Rack deads.
Yes on CG rows.Not sure on how to do them though.


Thanks for the help and reps to you!!!

Originally Posted by Hoopie

BI's

BB Curl 2x3-4 +2 forced reps(3/0/x tempo)
Hammer curls 2x3-4 +1+1+1 rest pause(6/1/1)
concentration curl 1x8(2/4/1)
ez bar curl 1x30-40
SUPERSET: rev. curl/db hammer curl 1x20-25

TRI'S
CG bench 2x3-4 +2 forced reps(3/0/x)
skulls 2x3 +1+1+1 rest pause(6/1/1)
EZ bar overhead Ext 1x8(2/4/1)
db kickbacks 1x30-40
SUPERSET:rg bench/bench dips 1x20-25

I hope I don't sound to stupid, but what is "rg bench" in the superset of tri's? Reverse Grip?

Originally Posted by lonewolf0420

I hope I don't sound to stupid, but what is "rg bench" in the superset of tri's? Reverse Grip?

Yes reverse grip bench